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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: YeOlde]
    #23346043 - 06/15/16 05:32 AM (8 years, 10 days ago)

I've honestly never heard about this one but it may be worth a shot if it's not expensive give er a try after some research


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself

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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #23346105 - 06/15/16 06:24 AM (8 years, 10 days ago)

AL-LAD
ALD-52
ETH-LAD
1P-LSD
1P-ETH-LAD
PRO-LAD
LSZ

Right now is the golden age of lysergamides lol. Id recommend anyone who likes LSD to at least try AL-LAD and ALD-52

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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #23346141 - 06/15/16 06:44 AM (8 years, 10 days ago)

Acorus americanus.

Quote:

Calamus was originally noted to have psychedelic properties in Caucasian literature through ethnobotanical research dating back to the 1960s. However, sweet flag has been held in high esteem by North American indigenous peoples for many hundreds of years. An important ethnobotanical, calamus served as a powerful shamanic libation, a panacea, health tonic and detoxifier, and a talisman against evil. Indeed, this plant is saturated with spiritual magic and universal connectivity (Ratsch 1998, 41).

(...)

According to North American tribes, the amount of calamus necessary to produce psychoactive effects is equivalent to the size of a finger.  However, dosages of up to 300g have been tested.  High doses have reportedly resulted in LSD-like experiences (Ratsch 1998, 40).

There are several varieties of A. calamus available, and from all of the online vendors we have purchased this product from, only a few had genuine Acorus calamus americanus.  The Americanus variety is the only one that is known to have a historical use as an entheogen.



http://entheology.com/plants/acorus-calamus-var-americanus-2/

Bufotenine, from  Anadenanthera colubrina AKA Cebil beans.

5-MeO-DMT from Virola thiodora bark resin.


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.

Edited by flickedbic (06/15/16 07:05 AM)

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Invisibletrvptamine
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23346265 - 06/15/16 07:46 AM (8 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
Salvia is a dissociative with I guess some "psychedelic" qualities. Smoked Salvia is theorized to have possible characteristics of deliriants as well. It and cannabis are speculated to have vague properties of all 3 categories of hallucinogens; psychedelics, dissociative and deliriants.

So is salvia a real psychedelic? No it's mostly a dissociative. An atypical dissociative technically.

An example of a real psychedelic with some dissociative characteristics would be Ibogaine.
and I suppose once again cannabis.

Cannabis is really interesting and yes it has been proven to not have just psychedelic effects but characteristics of psychotomimetics/deliriants as well as dissociatives. It's pretty well rounded.



psychedelics have to be serotonin receptor agonists but dissociatives don't have to be NMDA antagonists?

What im trying to say is Salvia and cannabis couldn't be considered dissociatives in the same way that neither of them could be considered psychedelics because they don't have anything to do with the receptors that dissociatives hit.

Ibogaine on the other hand is in a whole new ballpark because it truly is both a serotonergic psychedelic and an NMDA antagonist dissociative.

And also If you consider entactogenic drugs to be psychedelic than you should also count NMDA drugs because they are on a whole different level of deepness and trippy compared to drugs like MDMA and MDA.

@OP
Honestly If you want a hallucinogen that will blown your mind this is how I would rate them from my personal experience:
Dissociatives:
1: MXE
2: Ketamine
3: DXM

Psychedelics:
1:4-aco-dmt
2:DMT
3:Mushrooms
4:LSD
5:Any other serotonergic psychedelic

Other hallucinogens:
1:Salvia
2:Cannabis

Again these are only ones that Ive tried that I think are very good hallucinogens. There are definitely other great hallucinogens out there I haven't tried and also ones ive tried that just couldn't compare to the ones on this list.


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OfflineYeOlde
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23346331 - 06/15/16 08:17 AM (8 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
I've honestly never heard about this one but it may be worth a shot if it's not expensive give er a try after some research




I've heard lots of good things about it and seems to have a fairly good safety profile based on a thread on a diff forum, lots of experimentation.

TiHKAL has an entry on it reporting good things to and considering shrooms are 4-HO-DMT... 4-HO-MIPT I hear has spiritual qualities more akin to an ecstasy type feel and can take you on a trip that begins right from your childhood and flashes you through your whole life in a very vivid way. It sounds interesting.

Back on topic, Aurora kinda nails it really. You got Trymptamines which generally hit 5HT-2A, Dissociatives=NMDA and Delerients affecting acetycholine pathways.

Tryptamines/ Lysergamides:
LSA / LSD, Shrooms (4-HO-DMT), 5-MeO-DMT (Found in the Colorado river toad), DMT, 2CB / 2CI (Phenethylamines). I suppose MDMA to an extent (MDA more so psychedelic)

OP you should read PihKAL and TihKAL books to get an idea of the vast array of psychoactive / psychedelics.


--------------------
My Psychedelic experiences:
LSD - 30+ times (2 hits min / max 3 hits) every time.
Shrooms - 4 times (2.5 - 3.5g)
DMT - 5 times (Powerful breakthrough only once)

Life can be one hell of a bitter pill to swallow so I chose acid instead -YeOlde

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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: flickedbic]
    #23346590 - 06/15/16 09:32 AM (8 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

flickedbic said:
Bufotenine, from  Anadenanthera colubrina AKA Cebil beans.




Yes, tried that, definitly a tryptamin -high, bufotenin is 5-HO-DMT, very closly related to psilocin (4-HO-DMT).
Just crush five seeds, smoke the yellow powder and off you go for an hour with mild effects like tracers, bright colors, cartoon -like vision and time compression.

-

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: Pandemoon]
    #23347086 - 06/15/16 12:01 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

Traditionally the seeds are made into a snuff.

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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #23347169 - 06/15/16 12:30 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

Just another ROA, I guess, but those seeds are little different, 5-MeO-DMT <-> 5-HO-DMT.

Yopo (A.perigrina) is made into snuff by most, while Cebil (A.colubrina) can also be smoked with good results, snuff works too.

-

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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: Pandemoon]
    #23348187 - 06/15/16 05:29 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

The *classic* pyschedelics are psilocybin, LSD, mescaline and DMT.

There are plenty of pyschedelics out there but these are the classics.


--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A

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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: mushpunx]
    #23349667 - 06/16/16 02:58 AM (8 years, 9 days ago)

Depends on how you define classic. mescaline, psilocybin and LSA definitely have a much longer history of use than LSD.

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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #23350691 - 06/16/16 11:18 AM (8 years, 9 days ago)

LSA is not a classic psychedelic.

Ibogaine and Salvia have been used for thousands of years that doesn't mean they're "classic psychedelics" though.

The classic psychedelics like he said are DMT, Psilocybin, Mescaline and LSD and that's it.

It's not something that's up for debate really. It's not for everyone to make their own interpretation of list. the classics are the classics.

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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: trvptamine]
    #23350697 - 06/16/16 11:22 AM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

trvptamine said:

psychedelics have to be serotonin receptor agonists but dissociatives don't have to be NMDA antagonists?

What im trying to say is Salvia and cannabis couldn't be considered dissociatives in the same way that neither of them could be considered psychedelics because they don't have anything to do with the receptors that dissociatives hit.

Ibogaine on the other hand is in a whole new ballpark because it truly is both a serotonergic psychedelic and an NMDA antagonist dissociative.

And also If you consider entactogenic drugs to be psychedelic than you should also count NMDA drugs because they are on a whole different level of deepness and trippy compared to drugs like MDMA and MDA.





Uh bro did you not see me say everything EXCEPT the atypicals? Not all psychedelics are serotonergic, weed is an example of that. Weed is an atypical psychedelic just like how Salvia is an atypical dissociative.
Do you not know what atypical means? They don't follow the normal algorithm that's why they're called atypical.

I NEVER said cannabis was a dissociative because it's not. It's an atypical psychedelic with dissociative characteristics.
Just because it has characteristics of dissociatives doesn't mean it is one.
Weed has characteristics of psychotomimetics as well but that doesn't mean it's considered a full blown psychotomimetic/deliriant.
Cannabis is still more of a psychedelic than anything just like how Salvia is more of a dissociative.

Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (06/16/16 11:28 AM)

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23350861 - 06/16/16 12:08 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

I dont agree with the atypical thing i would not call a drug that doesnt effect serotonin a psych. Same goes for NMDA receptor agonists and dissociatives. But ibogaine is a tryptamine like DMT or Psiloc(yb)in do why would it be atypical? Sounds pretty typical to me

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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #23350926 - 06/16/16 12:31 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

So you don't consider cannabis(THC) a psychedelic? I mean I do and I thought most did it's just..atypical that's all.

According to Wikipedia these are the psychedelic effects of cannabis:"Some effects may include a general change in consciousness, mild - strong visual distortions, strange unique hallucinations unlike serotonin based psychedelics that usually have rigid movements and vividly flashing images usually seen in dim lighting (high doses), landscapes and vivid cartoon-like images upon closing eyes, euphoria, feelings of general well-being, relaxation or stress reduction, enhanced recollection of episodic memory, hunger, increased sensuality, increased awareness of sensation, creative or philosophical thinking, disruption of linear memory, paranoia, agitation, anxiety, potentiation of other psychedelics, and increased awareness of sound, patterns, and colo(u)r."

Seems psychedelic to me :shrug:

Ibogaine is an atypical psychedelic because it has distinct dissociative properties and effects. That's the only thing that makes it atypical is it's not like other serotonergic psychedelics. It's 'less' atypical than most atypicals though if that makes any sense. For example weed and Ibogaine are both atypical psychedelics but Ibogaine is kinda more on the psychedelic side and cannabis is more on the atypical side.
Not all atypicals are created equally.

Cannabis has been shown to posses characteristics of all 3 categories of hallucinogens but having most in common with psychedelic.
It has characteristics of dissociatives, deliriants but has most characteristics (and even effects) from psychedelics.
So don't you think cannabis can be considered a psychedelic as well?

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InvisibleI Love Lucid
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #23350934 - 06/16/16 12:32 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Salvia is a kappa-opioid dissociative. It doesn't affect NMDA, but it's a dissociative.

Ibogaine is a thing of it's own. Taken from Erowid:

"Ibogaine acts on numerous receptor systems, including the dopaminergic, serotonergic, nicotinic, GABA, and muscarinic systems."

It is also known to affect NMDA.

It acts in ways resembling psychedelics, typical dissociatives, atypical dissociatives, and muscimol deliriants (amanita muscaria). Apparently, it also has effects resembling those of nicotine, and GABAergic and dopaminergic drugs.


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: I Love Lucid]
    #23350948 - 06/16/16 12:35 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

I had no idea Ibogaine had things in common with muscimol or deliriants?

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InvisibleI Love Lucid
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23350959 - 06/16/16 12:38 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Yeah, it's a really interesting drug pharmacologically!


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: I Love Lucid]
    #23351082 - 06/16/16 01:21 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
So you don't consider cannabis(THC) a psychedelic? I mean I do and I thought most did it's just..atypical that's all.

According to Wikipedia these are the psychedelic effects of cannabis:"Some effects may include a general change in consciousness, mild - strong visual distortions, strange unique hallucinations unlike serotonin based psychedelics that usually have rigid movements and vividly flashing images usually seen in dim lighting (high doses), landscapes and vivid cartoon-like images upon closing eyes, euphoria, feelings of general well-being, relaxation or stress reduction, enhanced recollection of episodic memory, hunger, increased sensuality, increased awareness of sensation, creative or philosophical thinking, disruption of linear memory, paranoia, agitation, anxiety, potentiation of other psychedelics, and increased awareness of sound, patterns, and colo(u)r."

Seems psychedelic to me :shrug:

Ibogaine is an atypical psychedelic because it has distinct dissociative properties and effects. That's the only thing that makes it atypical is it's not like other serotonergic psychedelics. It's 'less' atypical than most atypicals though if that makes any sense. For example weed and Ibogaine are both atypical psychedelics but Ibogaine is kinda more on the psychedelic side and cannabis is more on the atypical side.
Not all atypicals are created equally.

Cannabis has been shown to posses characteristics of all 3 categories of hallucinogens but having most in common with psychedelic.
It has characteristics of dissociatives, deliriants but has most characteristics (and even effects) from psychedelics.
So don't you think cannabis can be considered a psychedelic as well?



Sounds psychedelic to you because you have a different definition of psychedelic than me. To me a psychedelic is a serotonergic hallucinogen. So no i dont think it should be considered a psychedelic. A haulluginogen yes. And i kbow cannabis foes effect some 5HT receptors but not in the same way as psychedelics.

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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Psychedelic Options? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23351583 - 06/16/16 04:09 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
LSA is not a classic psychedelic.

Ibogaine and Salvia have been used for thousands of years that doesn't mean they're "classic psychedelics" though.

The classic psychedelics like he said are DMT, Psilocybin, Mescaline and LSD and that's it.

It's not something that's up for debate really. It's not for everyone to make their own interpretation of list. the classics are the classics.





:whathesaid:


The classics were used among academics, writers and artists.. people like Huxley and Burroughs.
Mescaline was definetly the first of the classics, acedemics were starting to explore it at the turn of the 20th century.
DMT was pretty rare in the early 50s, but there are some great accounts of searching out Ayauasca in south America, Burroughs "the yage letters" is a fantastic read especially if you're a fan of his
The in the early 50s psilocybin was brought back and that and LSD started to get explored.

Lab created DMT, was being used pretty earlyt Im not sure when to date this but Burroughs sent out a letter saying he overdosed on it and its super dangerous or something (he self injected, a large dose I imAgine).


Either way, that's what makes them classics. They really are the best too if you ask me.


--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
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