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Roli
Stranger


Registered: 04/30/16
Posts: 18
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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I don't know what insanity is, but I like this quote:

Or this one:
-------------------- No way, no purpose, no free will, no awakening, no enlightenment, what is, is. That's all.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: Roli]
#23360369 - 06/19/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Roli said: I don't know what insanity is, but I like this quote:

Or this one:

Agreed to both quotes. The first one not quite as much because to blame non conformity on becoming psychotic seems like a cop out but probably factual in many cases. The outcast the precariat class the nonconforming dissonance factor shall rise and crush the elites like the cockroaches they are. I think so. So if by the first quote psychotic means to go freakin' mad max then let's get crazy.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
quinn said: aww that's pretty nice to hear .. i think when i started posting here as a kid i had a lot more to prove.. now i just kind of breeze in and out..
my knowledge fell out a while back 
Breezin'?
Fuck -- that's music.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Check out this duo.
I feel a little sad for you youngun's who missed the great music of the 70s. Thankfully, there's youtube.
Best of all, they are still playing together! I'm fast asleep thanks for waking me up DQ.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (06/19/16 10:51 AM)
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Roli
Stranger


Registered: 04/30/16
Posts: 18
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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What a great talk on the topic!
-------------------- No way, no purpose, no free will, no awakening, no enlightenment, what is, is. That's all.
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Psychogenic
Tripped out jungle monkey



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 631
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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That I a good question. I don't do the same thing over and over again and expect different results, but am classified as insane. I don't know exactly why that is. I would say experiencing delusions, highly active mind, and acting out irrational behavior. There were a lot of successful people throughout history characterized as insane, like Walt Disney and Albert Einstein. I have heard a lot of successful people in general are psychopaths.
Edited by Psychogenic (06/19/16 03:27 PM)
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
Psychogenic said: That I a good question. I don't do the same thing over and over again and expect different results, but am classified as insane. I don't know exactly why that is. I would say experiencing delusions, highly active mind, and acting out irrational behavior. There were a lot of successful people throughout history characterized as insane, like Walt Disney and Albert Einstein. I have heard a lot of successful people in general are psychopaths.
They would tell you why but it's classified. That's what's crazy to me, they put a label on you and you don't even know why, other than kind of.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Insanity is disbelief in the present reality.
Sanity is seeing another reality where love is less restricted, where one feels safe, where the soul can grow - from the beauty.
Actual reality can't be believed by definition, that's why these "psychotics" walk around the ward with a look of disbelief at what is happening.
They haven't let go of the previous reality and can't form a band between the two frequencies, because the reality we are conditioned to believe in isn't even possible, it's far too conceptual and primitive. Reality is an infinite series of frequencies.
These particular psychotics need to be told to doubt the cultural ideas of the world, not the other way around, that's why they "never get better."
When one is able to flow through various bands you see the higher consciousness, the range, the frequency band, in their eyes.
It's an achievement, in these strange times, indeed.
Edited by beforethedawn (06/19/16 08:42 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
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Can you further explain what you mean by this?
Quote:
"Actual reality can't be believed by definition"
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
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Insanity seems to be that fine, imaginary line that should not be crossed. Or also, just as clearly it's what is on the other side of it, that we fear. It is whatever is over there, and the imagination giving an inappropriate mode of ordered expression.
We should not ask what is insane, though, I think. It is a good hint, but who can traverse the question? We should ask what conformities thought that we should in our "sanity" be bold enough to cross.
Here's a good read, (I think I posted it once before but right on topic!)
Quote:
This (...) first arose out of a passage in Borges, out of the laughter that shattered, as I read the passage, all the familiar landmarks of my thought - our thought, the thought that bears the stamp of our age and our geography - breaking up all the ordered surfaces and all the planes with which we are accustomed to tame the wild profusion of existing things, and continuing long afterwards to disturb and threaten with collapse our age-old distinction between the Same and the Other.
This passage quotes a 'certain Chinese encyclopaedia in which it is written that 'animals are divided into: (a) belonging to the Emperor, (b) embalmed, (c) tame, (d) sucking pigs, (e) sirens, (f) fabulous, (g) stray dogs, (h) included in the present classification, (i) frenzied, (j) innumerable, (k) drawn with a very fine camelhair brush, (1) et cetera, (m) having just broken the water pitcher, (n) that from a long way off" look like flies'.
In the wonderment of this taxonomy, the thing we apprehend in one great leap, the thing that, by means of the fable, is demonstrated as the exotic charm of another system of thought, is the limitation of our own, the stark impossibility of thinking that.
But what is it impossible to think, and what kind of impossibility are we faced with here? Each of these strange categories can be assigned a precise meaning and a demonstrable content; some of them do certainly involve fantastic entities - fabulous animals or sirens - but, precisely beÂcause it puts them into categories of their own, the Chinese encyclopaedia localizes their powers of contagion; it distinguishes carefully between the very real animals (those that are frenzied or have just broken the water pitcher) and those that reside solely in the realm of imagination.
The possibility of dangerous mixtures has been exorcized, heraldry and fable have been relegated to their own exalted peaks: no inconceivable amphibiÂous maidens, no clawed wings, no disgusting, squamous epidermis, none of those polymorphous and demoniacal faces, no creatures breathing fire.
The quality of monstrosity here does not affect any real body, nor does it produce modifications of any kind in the bestiary of the imagination; it does not lurk in the depths of any strange power. It would not even be present at all in this classification had it not insinuated itself into the empty space, 'the interstitial blanks separating all these entities from one another.
It is not the 'fabulous' animals that are impossible, since they are desigÂnated as such, but the narrowness of the distance separating them from (and juxtaposing them to) the stray dogs, or the animals that from a long way off look like flies. What transgresses the boundaries of all imaginaÂtion, of all possible thought, is simply that alphabetical series (a, b, c, d) which links each of those categories to all the others.
Moreover, it is not simply the oddity of unusual Juxtapositions that we are faced with here. We are all familiar with the disconcerting effect of the proximity of extremes, or, quite simply, with the sudden vicinity of things that have no relation to each other; the mere act of enumeration that heaps them all together has a power of enchantment all its own: 'I am no longer hungry,' Eusthenes said. 'Until the morrow, safe from my saliva all the following shall be: Aspics, Acalephs, Acanthocephalates, Amoebocytes, Ammonites, Axolotis, Amblystomas, Aphislions, AnaconÂdas, Ascarids, Amphisbaenas, Angleworms, Amphipods, Anaerobes, AnneÂlids, Anthozoans. . . .' But all these worms and snakes, all these creatures redolent of decay and slime are slithering, like the syllables which desigÂnate them, in Eusthenes' saliva: that is where they all have their common locus, like the umbrella and the sewing-machine on the operating table; startling though their propinquity may be, it is nevertheless warranted by that and, by that in, by that on whose solidity provides proof of the possibility of juxtaposition. It was certainly improbable that arachnids, ammonites, and annelids should one day mingle on Eusthenes' tongue, but, after all, that welcoming and voracious mouth certainly provided them with a feasible lodging, a roof under which to coexist.
The monstrous quality that runs through Borges's enumeration consists, on the contrary, in the fact that the common ground on which such meetings are possible has itself been destroyed. What is impossible is not the propinquity of the things listed, but the very site on which their propinquity would be possible. The animals '(i) frenzied, (j) innumerable, (k) drawn with a very fine camelhair brush' - where could they ever meet, except in the immaterial sound of the voice pronouncing their enumeration, or on the page transcribing it? Where else could they be juxtaposed except in the non-place of language?
Yet, though language can spread them before us, it can do so only in an unthinkable space. The central category of animals 'included in the present classification', with its explicit reference to paradoxes we are familiar with, is indication enough that we shall never succeed in defining a stable relation of conÂtained to container between each of these categories and that which includes them all: if all the animals divided up here can be placed without exception in one of the divisions of this list, then aren't all the other divisions to be found in that one division too? And then again, in what space would that single, inclusive division have its existence? Absurdity destroys the "and" of the enumeration by making impossible the "in" where the things enumerated would be divided up.
Borges adds no figure to the atlas of the impossible; nowhere does he strike the spark of poetic conÂfrontation; he simply dispenses with the least obvious, but most comÂpelling, of necessities; he does away with the site, the mute ground upon which it is possible for entities to be juxtaposed. A vanishing trick that is masked or, rather, laughably indicated by our alphabetical order, which is to be taken as the clue (the only visible one) to the enumerations of a Chinese encyclopaedia... . What has been removed, in short, is the famous 'operating table'; and rendering to Roussel1 a small part of what is still his due, I use that word 'table' in two superimposed senses: the nickel-plated, rubbery table swathed in white, glittering beneath a glass sun devouring all shadow - the table where, for an instant, perhaps forÂever, the umbrella encounters the sewing-machine; and also a table, a tabula, that enables thought to operate upon the entities of our world, to put them in order, to divide them into classes, to group them according to names that designate their similarities and their differences - the table upon which, since the beginning of time, language has intersected space.
That passage from Borges kept me laughing a long time, though not without a certain uneasiness that I found hard to shake off. Perhaps because there arose in its wake the suspicion that there is a worse kind of disorder than that of the incongruous, the linking together of things that are inappropriate; I mean the disorder in which fragments of a large number of possible orders glitter separately in the dimension, without law or geometry, of the heteroclite; and that word should be taken in its most literal, etymological sense: in such a state, things are 'laid', 'placed', 'arranged' in sites so very different from one another that it is impossible to find a place of residence for them, to define a common locus beneath them all.
Utopias afford consolation: although they have no real locality there is nevertheless a fantastic, untroubled region in which they are able to unfold; they open up cities with vast avenues, superbly planted gardens, countries where life is easy, even though the road to them is chimerical. Heterotopias are disturbing, probably because they secretly undermine language, because they make it impossible to name this and that, because they shatter or tangle common names, because they destroy 'syntax' in advance, and not only the syntax with which we construct sentences but also that less apparent syntax which causes words and things (next to and also opposite one another) to 'hold together'. This is why Utopias permit fables and discourse: they run with the very grain of language and are part of the fundamental dimension of the fabula; heterotopias (such as those to be found so often in Borges) desiccate speech, stop words in their tracks, contest the very possibility of grammar at its source; they dissolve our myths and sterilize the lyricism of our sentences.
Michel Foucault, The Order of Things
We are all aware somewhat of the "utopianism" of sanity right? I think we all get the injustice of how normalcy works; its superficiality, and fabrication, but where is the principle of critique of that? Foucault, seems to immediately come to this burden. A burden of argument, or an unease, either way.
Maybe in argumentative ways, we can accomplish breakdowns as sanely as we can. Is the rationality of philosophy an orderly breaking down of the overly ordered, so that we can breathe easier and be natural, maybe? Is philosophy the anathema to the inherent problems with this sane/insane line? If you didn't do all the work to understand philosophy, wouldn't this headspace be a little crazy? Just a thought.
Interesting concept...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterotopia_(space)
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: sudly]
#23362808 - 06/20/16 04:28 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Can you further explain what you mean by this?
Quote:
"Actual reality can't be believed by definition"
So I mean, just play with the logic a little
Belief and reality are a polarity.
Reality must be unbelievable.
Belief must be unrealisable.
So that's the band, the frequency band, of possibilities -
What you believe, through to what you can't believe.
Belief must be Hell, and reality must be Heaven.
How to substantiate?
Hard to BELIEVE, because it's an aspect of REALITY, but -
If you remove all doubt about the present, on a soul, on a primal, absolute level, just remove all doubt about what you are experiencing in the present, the present will become unbelievable because you no longer believe anything about it.
The sages have said "Enlightenment" is just ordinary, everyday awareness, just without the doubt.
Then they said they found themselves in Beautitude.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Quote:
beforethedawn said: Belief must be Hell, and reality must be Heaven.
Good post BTD. Can you elaborate on why you believe this to be the case please?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Well you are Reality. Capital or smaller case, you know what I mean... both concepts - Reality/God and reality; the present moment around you.
Discover it for yourself or simply look at what science is starting to say - everything is all in one field.
So
What's the opposite of You?
Belief
If you believe the present moment around you, if you BELIEVE it, you create BELIEF *WITHIN* REALITY, thus opposites within YOURSELF.
That means you start to destroy yourself - you feel pain, you go to Hell.
If you do not believe the present moment, if you have no doubt about it, you realise reality, a kind of upward spiral, creating, creating, creating, instead of opposites.
Now look what happens if you believe belief... you get reality, double-negatives cancel.
So I mean,
Pain is just belief, an illusion, belief is doubt in reality.
And there is 'really' only Reality, or reality, or You, and that is Heaven.
Watch your body,
As you doubt anything,
You begin to bump into things, step on things, make mistakes
If you just let Reality Be
Well,
The unbelievable will happen, the opposite of pain. Pain is just belief/doubt. Believing anything about reality is doubting reality...
You'll get everything right, it will be perfect. It already is. This is Heaven.
Note what is happening here,
I'm assuming reality is somehow syntax, of a language.
Something Terence McKenna was on to.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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And so what is the function of Belief then, why is there even the possibility of belief, of pain? If this is God, if God who art in Heaven?
Well as reality becomes more real as you disbelieve in it, there is more REALNESS so there is more incentive to BELIEVE IT IS HAPPENING.
It's a surf, an ocean.
Of consciousness, frequencies.
From believable, to unbelievable.
Just the most perfect, beautiful thing that could have ever happened.
And if you believe it's like this, well you can't... It's Reality, it's unbelievable.
That's why it's like this... You see...
If you keep following this logic, you'll find it couldn't have been any other way.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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I like to say there is only Heaven, and only a road to Hell, no actual place.
If you believed reality, totally, there would be nothing, so how could there be absolute Evil? Hell? Devil?
But if you realise Reality, you get it all. God. You get God.
So why is there God?
You only ask "why" towards what is believed, not what is a fact. A fact is a fact, there is no why, a fact is reality. Reality.
Well try to believe there is God first... Logically impossible
You can't...
There is just God. God IS the mystery.
The mystery of the manifest world.
It will always be a mystery then.
But if we believe that about it...
Ya know...
So I mean everything's perfect.
Just do whatever you like.
But I sincerely recommend losing all doubts, just drop it all, just see for yourself...
This is all perfect and it can never change.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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And notice,
What emerges as you move towards God is just everything you don't doubt - YET - so it's just surfing through illusions.
As you believe them, you know more about Reality, because you are believing illusions (beliefs) - creating knowledge of God.
So I mean illusion is reality and reality is illusion, it's all the same.
Everything and nothing.
The yin-yang, the Tao.
Maybe that's why there is belief and pain
PAIN
IS
TO
TEACH
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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It's all just God trying to understand the mystery of why it is manifest by creating and destroying worlds while God art in Heaven.
God is manifest because there is a mystery. Mystery is manifest because there is only God, and no mystery. For God to exist, there must be mystery, a polarity.
But I just showed that everything is the same.
So God is literally a mystery.
or Reality is literally a mystery, and it can't be any other way.
How to know it? You must first believe then ask why it is so. But it is already here... or so we believe...
McKenna called it a 'conundrum'.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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For anything to exist, it must be a mystery, to exist, it must first be known.
blah blah blah
I mean the more you SAY THE TRUTH
the less able you are to BELIEVE IT
But it the MORE IT SAYS
so the MORE INCENTIVE TO BELIEVE
See I mean...
It's all syntax. Reality is made of language.
Riddles. If you follow this logic it's a riddle.
A mystery.
A conundrum.
"The universe is a puzzle, life is a problem to be solved, it's a conundrum, it's not what it appears to be. There are doors, there are locks and keys, there are levels, and if you get it right, somehow it will give way to something extremely unexpected."
-TERENCE MCKENNA
I mean just follow what I've said,
it reads like a RIDDLE.
RIDDLES say as much as possible about as little as possible.
In effect, if you're having trouble understanding it,
It's because I'm not really saying anything at all.
The truth must not be speakable.
But reality is made of language, so...

Well good luck!
There's nothing to know, there's everything to know.
Welcome to the only way it could have been, welcome to Heaven.
TRULY
Just don't doubt anything and watch your actions.
The environment is a field of imagination.
You won't hurt yourself until you believe something.
AMAZING
Edited by beforethedawn (06/20/16 05:44 AM)
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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SO GETTING BACK TO THE THREAD
YOU'RE COMPLETELY INSANE IF YOU DOUBT NOTHING / DOUBT EVERYTHING
ONLY A FANATIC HAS NO DOUBTS MY FRIENDDDDDDSSSSSSSSS
WE'RE ALL INSANE
HAHA
"SURF THE WAVES OF CHAOS." -Timothy Leary
Okay I'll shut up now.
I love you.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Cool song, it's about everything you don't doubt.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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