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Invisiblequinn
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: quinn]
    #23348466 - 06/15/16 07:09 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Yes sudly, I think that's right.  Psychosis is the inability to discern true reality from false perception, and someone having a psychotic episode has a lot of spurious perceptions flying at them very rapidly.

I would like to share a little blurb on the subject by Ram Dass that is very interesting imo:


Quote:

"...there are points in the transformation in beings where they "can't keep it all together."  That is, where more is happening to them than they fit, so that they can't keep all the planes together at any one moment.  So they get stuck in one plane or another.  A schizophrenic goes into one and then flips back into the other, and flips back and forth.  Somebody that's totally psychotic stays in another plane.  Somebody that is a total anxiety neurotic is afraid to leave this plane.  You know, there are all these deep, different gradations."




Clearly a very sobering topic.



this is an interesting quote, i wonder how rigorous Ram Dass is.. one thing i would question him, is on an ontological level there is always 'more happening to us' that we can fit, due to our inherent limitations as finite mortal creatures with limited capacity, knowledge, memory and ability to act..

so i wonder if according to him, the only difference between a 'normal' functioning person and an 'insane' person is that a normal person is somehow able to function through a healthy number of 'planes' in their life where an insane person may take on too many or too few and thus becomes dysfunctional?

if that were the case it would be quite scary to think that it might only be a matter of losing or gaining a few planes here and there for us to turn insane... :tinfoil:

i would wonderas well what 'planes' really are to Ram Das... in my mind they are social situations which we are participants in and have our own real and imagined positions within. for example being a sportsperson might be one 'plane' for one person. being a subject of a christian god might be another 'plane' etc

to this end i disagree somewhat with you that insanity is believing something that is not real because what is real is never an obvious thing, i think you need to elaborate.

there are always many life and social situations opening up to us, many choices and possibilities and 'planes' (even if we dont notice them because we are so engrained in our own habits).. there are people who are driven to take on many different roles in many different situations and there are people who are fixated on one or two.. both could be equally sane tho..


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dripping with fantasy

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23349092 - 06/15/16 10:21 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
One popular definition is "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result".

We could also describe that definition as optimism, or persistence.  Hope for the best, expect the worst, so do the same thing over and over hoping things will change while accepting the insane result.




the quote is not really about "clinical insanity", but is a metaphor meant as a warning...

Best I can intuit 'actual insanity' for now is:

One way to ‘understand’ insanity is that it is an experience of being totally lost.
Many people have very strange trips, but some part of them still knows, who they are, or where they are, or that they are tripping,
By contrast the feeling of being insane, happens when all these coordinate points, become uncertain or disappear. Whether this is experienced as hell, depends on whether, it is accompanied by panic or letting go. But a line has been crossed where reason is no longer of any use.
Insanity is not about specific content. We can walk because of gravity and friction. When all the coordinates a mind relies upon are gone there is no friction, no gravity, no traction, no certainty, there is no basis from which to make any decision. There is no way back. Your previous life has ended. Best I can intuit it for now.

People who have salvia trips where they become a wall may have gotten a small taste …

Edited by laughingdog (06/15/16 10:36 PM)

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OfflineTameMe
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23352610 - 06/16/16 09:21 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

How about this:

A perceived or actual state of confusion that renders a person incapable of sustaining their physical needs and/or relative freedom amongst their cohabitants.

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Offlineviktor
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: TameMe]
    #23352974 - 06/16/16 11:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

As someone who has been clinically diagnosed as insane, what it seems to me is an excess of chaos in the mind. It is impossible to regulate or to impose order upon what is going through the mind when one is insane.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: TameMe]
    #23353660 - 06/17/16 05:33 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TameMe said:
How about this:

A perceived or actual state of confusion that renders a person incapable of sustaining their physical needs and/or relative freedom amongst their cohabitants.




A society imposed restriction of freedom to someone they consider to have dangerous insanity.  As we enter the taking of guns, the mentally insane people get them taken away first, then the crazy conspiracy theory people, then the insane patriots, then the people who are confused as to balancing their checkbooks, all so their cohabitants can live in a false security right before they lose all their freedoms.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: viktor]
    #23353668 - 06/17/16 05:35 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
As someone who has been clinically diagnosed as insane, what it seems to me is an excess of chaos in the mind. It is impossible to regulate or to impose order upon what is going through the mind when one is insane.




It's impossible for anyone to truly regulate or impose order on their mind anyway.  They just weren't clinically diagnosed first so don't see the problem.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23353683 - 06/17/16 05:46 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

yeah i was curious as to what viktor meant by 'regulate' or 'impose order' too.. are these skills everyone learns when they grow up?.... i dont see myself doing much of that consciously at all (or maybe i am just used to it?)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23356259 - 06/17/16 10:45 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Yes sudly, I think that's right.  Psychosis is the inability to discern true reality from false perception, and someone having a psychotic episode has a lot of spurious perceptions flying at them very rapidly.

I would like to share a little blurb on the subject by Ram Dass that is very interesting imo:


Quote:

"...there are points in the transformation in beings where they "can't keep it all together."  That is, where more is happening to them than they fit, so that they can't keep all the planes together at any one moment.  So they get stuck in one plane or another.  A schizophrenic goes into one and then flips back into the other, and flips back and forth.  Somebody that's totally psychotic stays in another plane.  Somebody that is a total anxiety neurotic is afraid to leave this plane.  You know, there are all these deep, different gradations."




Clearly a very sobering topic.




It is a rather interesting explanation, do you have a link for the quote?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: sudly]
    #23356270 - 06/17/16 10:48 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

No, I don't -- I transcribed it out of The Only Dance There Is.  I suppose you could maybe find a .pdf of it, but I don't have that information.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23356360 - 06/17/16 11:51 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Ram Dass recently said that many of his writings were "naive." My brother had schizophrenia, it's more complex than that.

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: Middleman]
    #23356410 - 06/18/16 12:16 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

"...there are points in the transformation in beings where they "can't keep it all together."  That is, where more is happening to them than they fit, so that they can't keep all the planes together at any one moment.  So they get stuck in one plane or another.  A schizophrenic goes into one and then flips back into the other, and flips back and forth.  Somebody that's totally psychotic stays in another plane.  Somebody that is a total anxiety neurotic is afraid to leave this plane.  You know, there are all these deep, different gradations."




Quote:

Middleman said: schizophrenia, it's more complex than that.




Ram Dass gave a good summary of schizophrenia.
The complex nature he's describing is the experience of the 2 planes of implicit and explicit perception.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: Middleman]
    #23357274 - 06/18/16 09:08 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Ram Dass recently said that many of his writings were "naive." My brother had schizophrenia, it's more complex than that.




Oh, I don't disagree with you -- it's extraordinarily complex.  I just think Ram Dass gives an interesting perspective on it.  It's certainly not an exhaustive appraisal.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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OfflineZiggen650
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: remake]
    #23357279 - 06/18/16 09:11 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FranniePilgrim said:
First person reality is insanity.

Culture is insanity.

How does life make sense - and no sense - at the same time?






This is my current thinking about insanity.  Life itself is insanity,  the mere fact that we are having this conversation is insanity.  The sheer lack of knowledge about what the fuck is actually going on is insanity.

And a person who obsesses over this fact is insane.

Like me lol


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"One does not discover new lands without losing sight of the shore. "

Andre Gide

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: quinn]
    #23358751 - 06/18/16 05:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
yeah i was curious as to what viktor meant by 'regulate' or 'impose order' too.. are these skills everyone learns when they grow up?.... i dont see myself doing much of that consciously at all (or maybe i am just used to it?)




You always seem so gentle to me.  I feel warm and fuzzy reading your posts.  Viktor on the other hand is a hard one, but I know that he's got his reasons and his knowledge is perhaps more valuable to me than yours quinn but I like you nonetheless.



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OfflineTameMe
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23359275 - 06/18/16 09:19 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

TameMe said:
How about this:

A perceived or actual state of confusion that renders a person incapable of sustaining their physical needs and/or relative freedom amongst their cohabitants.




A society imposed restriction of freedom to someone they consider to have dangerous insanity.  As we enter the taking of guns, the mentally insane people get them taken away first, then the crazy conspiracy theory people, then the insane patriots, then the people who are confused as to balancing their checkbooks, all so their cohabitants can live in a false security right before they lose all their freedoms.




i am right with you on that train of logic...although...i do think you failed to address my statement specifically.

i will say that....sanity...is a thing...only because we are codependent organisms...and we seek to live in some sort of harmonious state.....which requires some type of agreement between the cohabitants....

if some start to behave outside those agreements....we have to "deal" with them.

Edited by TameMe (06/18/16 09:20 PM)

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Offlineviktor
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: LunarEclipse] * 1
    #23359436 - 06/18/16 10:33 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

viktor said:
As someone who has been clinically diagnosed as insane, what it seems to me is an excess of chaos in the mind. It is impossible to regulate or to impose order upon what is going through the mind when one is insane.




It's impossible for anyone to truly regulate or impose order on their mind anyway.  They just weren't clinically diagnosed first so don't see the problem.




Sure, no-one can 'truly' regulate their mind. But if you can't even go and buy a bottle of milk from the supermarket without thoughts of murder and madness being jammed into your mind at every step, making it impossible to orient yourself, then you might have a clinically recognised condition.

I can impose enough order on my mind to write a Shroomery post. That's probably more than a truly "insane" person could do.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23360187 - 06/19/16 08:47 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

aww that's pretty nice to hear :crazy:.. i think when i started posting here as a kid i had a lot more to prove.. now i just kind of breeze in and out..

my knowledge fell out a while back :shrug2:


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Offlinedeff
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: quinn] * 1
    #23360279 - 06/19/16 09:29 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

quinn for president! :laugh:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: deff]
    #23360293 - 06/19/16 09:35 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deff said:
quinn for president! :laugh:




The Mighty Quinn?



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Anxiety is what you make it.

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What Is Insanity? [Re: quinn]
    #23360329 - 06/19/16 09:50 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
aww that's pretty nice to hear :crazy:.. i think when i started posting here as a kid i had a lot more to prove.. now i just kind of breeze in and out..

my knowledge fell out a while back :shrug2:




Breezin'?





--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

Edited by LunarEclipse (06/19/16 09:51 AM)

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