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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Can a relationship last in modern society?
    #2334195 - 02/14/04 02:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I was sitting at home last evening, minding my own buisness, trying to figure out how i was going to spend this valentines day, when one of the women on blind date said something interesting.
"I don't think a relationship can last a lifetime in modern society."
She went on to say some bullshit that failed to support her claim, but it got me thinkin.... Can a relationship last nowadays? Is it possible?

Opinions for and against are welcome and even solicited. happy valentines day to those who have someone to share it with.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2334215 - 02/14/04 02:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yes.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Evolving]
    #2334253 - 02/14/04 02:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I agree.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2334271 - 02/14/04 02:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

But why? Other than a faith in humanity.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2334417 - 02/14/04 03:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think it could last, if one finds the right person with whom to spend what has become "eternity" here on earth.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Randolph_Carter] * 1
    #2334572 - 02/14/04 03:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You have to be able to accept all the quirks and shortcomings of your partner, NOT ignore them, not hope they will change, not threaten the relationship if they don't change, ACCEPT them. If you cannot accept the other persons quirks or shortcomings, you should not try to force yourselves to be together.

Keep your word or don't give it, always be prepared to forgive, endeavor to always be honest. You have to be friendly and treat your partner with the same respect you would like. Let your partner be the person they want to or have to be, and let them know that you expect the same. Go into a relationship with both eyes open and be up front with the other person about who you are, don't hide things, putting on a facade to impress the other person is only setting them up for future disappointment, and both of you for heartache.

The initial romantic rush of getting to know a new person will fade after time, you must also accept this and base your relationship on more than this. Don't worry about looks (although I was incredibly attracted to my wife when I first met her), you will get used to the other person and you will both age, looks are not a basis for a long term commitment even though they may open the doors for an introduction. I told my wife before we were married that I wanted to be with her when her face was weathered and wrinkled and her back bent from time and I meant it.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2334617 - 02/14/04 04:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

My parents have been happily married for 23 years. I think that should answer your question.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2334704 - 02/14/04 04:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

MY parents have been happily married for 25 years...
and each of their parents were happily married until each of them passed away, the last one was last august.
i think for someone to really assume relationships cant last nowadays has little to no understanding of other people. if you take away stereotypes and as evolving said accept the quirks and shortcomings that make people unique, basically take all bodies away from people and have souls bond together than love really can conquer all.


--------------------
Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Evolving]
    #2334741 - 02/14/04 04:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That was incredibley good advice, Evolving  :thumbup:


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2335657 - 02/14/04 11:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

My parents divorced before I was old enough to remember them being together in the first place. I was a year old. I have pretty much no first hand basis to believe a relationship can last a lifteime and yet i believe it.


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Invisiblesakura
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2335815 - 02/15/04 01:03 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, but it requires commitment and work.

I have been married for seven years now and have endured some (extremely) rocky moments.

The main motivator for the type of committment to work through this in our case was a strong commitment to family (we have two young girls). You need to have some strong reasons to work through problems (and boredom).

While I am far from a perfect husband, I have learned the 'art of silence' (lots of 'relationship experts' stress the importance of open discussion of differences... they are mostly single or gay), I let things slide unless it is something REALLY important (sounds real simple, but hard to do sometimes...).


--------------------
Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Evolving]
    #2336100 - 02/15/04 03:04 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I only hope I can live up to those standards.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinesykobish
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Evolving]
    #2336621 - 02/15/04 08:38 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I just recently wrote an essay on this exact topic. Everything you have said is what I talked about.

The most important thing in ANY relationship is communication. If you can't communicate with the other person, the relationship is bound to fail. You need to respect that other person, trust them, and be honest to them, and to yourself.

I believe it is possible to have a lasting relationship if you are able to communicate, trust, and love unconditionally. No one is perfect, and once you accept that, your relationships with loved ones and friends will improve incredibly.

The quirks and habits of people is part of their character. That's what makes them special.


--------------------
I would rather have had one breath of her hair, one kiss from her mouth, one touch of her hand, than eternity without it. One.
-={Nite-Crew}=-

*-_Thread_Jacker_-*
To love is to admire with the heart; to admire is to love with the mind. - Th?ophile Gautier.
Seek not every quality in one individual - Confucius.
Global Living Space


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InvisibleKttail
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: sykobish]
    #2336634 - 02/15/04 09:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I've been with my wife for eleven and a half long years and have seen instances for all of the advice listed above.
We both come from very different backgrounds and have opposing spiritual beliefs. It's been a rough ride.
I would love to be able to communicate openly with my wife. However, to do so would cause undo strife and probably leave my two children with divorced parents.
I believe that many (not all)"happy" marriages consist of a balance of dominant and submissive. Needless to say, I am the one that keeps many opinions to myself except for when the subject really means something to me, then it usually still doesn't matter what I think.
I do know several couples that have been through the different life-altering relationship events that I have and now do have an open, honest, happy relationship. I just believe that it is the minority and have a hard time imagining such for myself.
~never give up, never surrender~ ~know when to hold them, know when to fold them~, and all that other cheesy advice that really works for certain situations.
Good luck to all.


--------------------
"Do not meddle,
In the affairs of Dragons.
For thou art crunchy,
and tasty with catsup."


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Offlinesykobish
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Kttail]
    #2336662 - 02/15/04 09:42 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I agree that some things shouldn't be said.. for the simple fact that there is no need. Some instances, as you have mentioned, don't necessarily need to be communicated.. But the ability to communicate in general is important.

There are many couples out there that hold too much in.. or are too afraid to say anything. When that happens, things build up and it sits and manifests until another time.


--------------------
I would rather have had one breath of her hair, one kiss from her mouth, one touch of her hand, than eternity without it. One.
-={Nite-Crew}=-

*-_Thread_Jacker_-*
To love is to admire with the heart; to admire is to love with the mind. - Th?ophile Gautier.
Seek not every quality in one individual - Confucius.
Global Living Space


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Frog]
    #2336775 - 02/15/04 10:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think it could last, if one finds the right person...

I think it could last if one becomes the right person...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2336779 - 02/15/04 10:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

My parents have been happily married for 23 years.

But actually married for 38 years. Do the math.  :lol:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Evolving]
    #2336787 - 02/15/04 11:04 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

you will get used to the other person and you will both age,
Not in L.A. They have the best plastic surgeons.

I told my wife before we were married that I wanted to be with her when her face was weathered and wrinkled and her back bent from time and I meant it.
*scratches head* So you made her haul bricks in the desert sun?

Seriously folks, evolving, evolvette and the little evolutionaries are a wonderful family and I am honored to have shared time with them!'


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Swami]
    #2336906 - 02/15/04 11:49 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I think it could last, if one finds the right person...

I think it could last if one becomes the right person...




Well, the right person will have become the right person by the time you have found him/her, unless you're hoping they change after you find him/her!

We're supposed to be "becoming" the right person while we're waiting for the other right person to come along.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Frog]
    #2337331 - 02/15/04 02:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
Well, the right person will have become the right person by the time you have found him/her, unless you're hoping they change after you find him/her!



There is no changing people after the fact.
If you can't accept their flaws, then you shouldn't bother getting involved. You're just setting yourself up for tragedy.

Why is it that women are always trying to change their significant others?
I've seen many relationships end badly because of this mindset.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinesykobish
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Sclorch]
    #2338247 - 02/15/04 06:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Not all women try to change their significant other.. Men aren't innocent when it comes to that either..


--------------------
I would rather have had one breath of her hair, one kiss from her mouth, one touch of her hand, than eternity without it. One.
-={Nite-Crew}=-

*-_Thread_Jacker_-*
To love is to admire with the heart; to admire is to love with the mind. - Th?ophile Gautier.
Seek not every quality in one individual - Confucius.
Global Living Space


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: sykobish]
    #2338269 - 02/15/04 07:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It's called the "Pygmolian Project"...and most (but not all...) people embark on it shortly after marriage. If not before.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Evolving]
    #2338356 - 02/15/04 07:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hehe my mother always told me "Looks will fade, but dumb is forever". :smile:

I think a relationship can last in modern society - what exactly is it about modern society that would suggest a relationship cannot last?

While the world may have changed a lot, emotions such as love are still the same.  If two people are compatible, and are willing to try their best at staying committed, they can keep their bond of love strong "forever".


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #2338392 - 02/15/04 07:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

what exactly is it about modern society that would suggest a relationship cannot last?




Disposability- disposable silverware and plates, places of residence, cameras, bottles and cans, etc...

Fashion- clothes, music, architecture... it all eventually "goes out of style" and has to be replaced.

The drive to "trade up"- Detroit has every american convinced that buying a new car every year is their civil duty and birthright. Silicon valley has us buying a new processor every 100 mhz increase instead of just releasing the best thinbg they have all at once.

A cruel, uncaring socio/governmental/economic machine that does not value relationships or other human concerns like love.

The postmodern realization of the general relativity and dynamic nature of the universe...

those are a few reasons why longterm committed relationships do not enjoy a very fertile place to grow in our modern society...


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2338435 - 02/15/04 08:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I agree. That and TV :wink:

Discipline is what has diminished. A very important element in relationships.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: sykobish]
    #2340038 - 02/16/04 05:38 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

sykobish: Not all women try to change their significant other.. Men aren't innocent when it comes to that either..

It was a generalization, I know it doesn't apply across the boards. And while it's true that men can be guilty of this, the numbers are much much lower... in my experience.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineKremlin
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2340150 - 02/16/04 07:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think there are many dimensions to this problem.

1) Relationships of the parents, as has been discussed above, is extremely important. Your first experience with relationships is your parents and your relationships with them. If thats fucked up, it can have an impact on your perceptions of what is "normal" in a relationship, etc....not to say its not salvageable, because of course it is.

2) Relationships are funny in modern society. We have the concept of love to promote relationships, because otherwise why would anyone stick to one person and raise children? We had to invent this concept, which of course doesnt exist in many cultures, in order to help our nook of the world survive, its just our way of promoting procreation. Love is a social construct. So the most obvious jackass question to be shot back at me is, "do you love your girlfriend?"

I dont like that word at all, i care for her, and i value her as a part of my life, and i enjoy being with her. So i guess the construct is serving its purpose for me.

But honestly, if you took away the concept of love in our western society, alot of things would be different. It's a reason for us to marry and pursue child rearing, and it's important, especially when our birth rate is as low as it is.

--Kremlin


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2340286 - 02/16/04 09:13 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Can a relationship last nowadays?

First we have to ask if the question makes sense before answering it.

"It didn't work out."

"My marriage failed."

"My diet failed."

Did the diet fail (was it medically unsound) or did the dieter fail to follow the plan?

While a relationship is a symbiosis, it is hardly an entity unto itself. A relationship doesn't fail, one fails in it. It takes maturity and personal responsibility to understand this. Society's attitude cannot make a relationship unworkable, it is only your attitudes that make it unworkable.

Do you have unrealistic expectations? Do you even know what relationship is all about? You cannot fail in attempting to support, love, cherish another because of outside influences.

A relationship may end without one being a failure in it. (Don't use this as an excuse though.) I lived with an alcoholic and she had no desire to address her problems. I never judged her and was willing to go the distance, but could not walk the path for her. What I learned from this was to make wiser decisions by carefully reading the signs before jumping in.

How does one know when one is ready for long-term committment? It is simple, but not what most want to hear. It is not about how wonderful you feel or how great the sex is or how hot your partner is. When the other's happiness and fulfillment is more important (in a healthy not a neurotic way) then you are ready.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: psyka]
    #2340410 - 02/16/04 10:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I agree. That and TV




actually, I think TV is very intrtumental in getting people married.... but thats another topic


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Swami]
    #2340453 - 02/16/04 11:03 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Sclorch]
    #2340577 - 02/16/04 12:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
sykobish: Not all women try to change their significant other.. Men aren't innocent when it comes to that either..

It was a generalization, I know it doesn't apply across the boards. And while it's true that men can be guilty of this, the numbers are much much lower... in my experience.




There might be a few women that don't try to change their men, but it's predominantly a female trait to "change" a man after embarking on a relationship. Men don't usually do this.

I don't try to change anyone, and I would prefer to be left alone, as well. I like me the way I am. If there's something about me that needs to be changed, I'm probably already aware of it and either don't want to change it or I'm already working on it.

What I do, when starting a relationship, is watch the behaviors and habits of the other person, and ask myself if I could live with that for the next 20 years.

Anything that bothers you early on, multiply it by 10, and that's how bad it will bother you a year from now. And this is where women go wrong...they think they will "change" whatever the bad behavior is in which the guy engages after they commit to a relationship.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Frog]
    #2340659 - 02/16/04 12:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Anything that bothers you early on, multiply it by 10

Oh shit! You mean if she is 10 lbs overweight now, she will be 100 lbs overweight a year from now?  :eek:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
НơĻ?ĢΉō

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 29,281
Loc: Shroomery B-list.
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Swami]
    #2341057 - 02/16/04 02:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"Society's attitude cannot make a relationship unworkable, it is only your attitudes that make it unworkable."
But in todays society, insofar as i understand it, societal attitude is far more prevailing and influential than an individuals attitude.  Our love of tv and willingness to abandon personal responsibility are a few of the things that i find to support the arguement.  Most people don't know enough about themselves to even embark on a serious lifelong discovery of another person with any degree of realism.  Which leads to the second point...

Do you have unrealistic expectations? Do you even know what relationship is all about?

I did, once upon a time.  Slowly, that's been beaten out of my head :wink:
But this is another point in which the prevailing attitudes of society are very influential.  We have piles upon piles of literature, advertising, and entertainment that makes the concept of love such a lofty one that a person may never attain it if they take it as depicted.  People are dreaming their lives away in response to these influences, and i find it very rare for people to open their eyes and take the other at face value.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
НơĻ?ĢΉō

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 29,281
Loc: Shroomery B-list.
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: sakura]
    #2341066 - 02/16/04 02:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The art of silence.....i like that.
Very true as well. Psychologists have recently found that ignoring a problem can be as, if not a more healthy solution to various problems... good to know that tact is a useful item in a relationship as well.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflineAmber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 1,543
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Kremlin]
    #2341103 - 02/16/04 02:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Love is an invented and societaly constructed idea? I'm not so sure about that.

Love is a word that tries to sum up a group of human emotions that make us feel strongly connected to someone else. You think back in the cave man days there was no such thing as love? While I'm sure they didn't express their love by getting married and having a couple of kids and a dog, people have been bonded by love forever.

It's almost like arguing that hate is a societally created idea.

While ideas such as monogamy and a life long partnership might be highly promoted by our society, the love itself has always been there.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2341242 - 02/16/04 03:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A relationship is sharing time with another. That's about it. Hehe, it comes down to whether or not you wish to continue sharing time with that person, no matter how much you dress it up and complicate it with things like "marriage" and so on....
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinepeleg
Gypsy
Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 535
Loc: Christ Light
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2341499 - 02/16/04 04:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

it's a give and take situation


--------------------
"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....


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OfflineKremlin
life in E minor
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 1,860
Loc: /export/home/Kremlin
Last seen: 2 years, 4 days
Re: Can a relationship last in modern society? [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #2342041 - 02/16/04 05:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, i do believe love is a social construct, because there are many societies who dont have such an emotion.

--Kremlin


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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