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Ogla



Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 11,314
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Pcing poo?
#23341128 - 06/13/16 08:58 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Getting quiet frustrated and idk whats going on. Past two grows have caught contamination on the substrate after going to tub. Ive been using 100% horse poo. I pasturalize outdoors on propane stove and let it run until gas goes out. This usually takes about 4 hours or more. Since my tubs are used and old, i throughly wash with bleach and dishsoap before wiping with rubbing alcohol when i make my casing. I leech and squeeze out the poo over a netted outdoor stool. I even wipe down the inside of the closet with 409 and orange degreaser extra.l, but the past two times i get contamination. This past time a suran wrapped all the tubs, but still got mold. Im wondering if maybe i should pc the poo (outdoors of course) or switch to 50/50 coir verm. Any ideas on what i can do to stop this from happening?
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Pcing poo? [Re: Ogla]
#23341150 - 06/13/16 09:01 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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You're 100% sure the spawn is clean and that isn't the issue?
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MycoLoopology
Eye's wide open



Registered: 06/12/16
Posts: 518
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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seems to me like something else might be causing the issue that you arent noticing.. with proper procedure and sterile technique, mold doesnt happen!
i mean it seems like you know what youre doing so im not sure what to say. maybe try coir/verm like you said. thats always been my go-to and ive heard rumors in the past that coco coir actually contains something that combats or at least keeps contams at bay a little more easily than some other substrate materials.
good luck though man, that really blows :/ i feel your frustration, but itll get better!
-------------------- Current Grow Log ^^My first grow log <3^^ Wish me luck.
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Ogla



Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 11,314
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I wonder if maybe there too much moisture or something. I put a great deal of effort into this and hate loosing grows at the last minute. Like you said, its like im missing something. I wonder if for some reason the poo isnt getting cooked long enough. I was thinking of pcing but wonder if that would stink my pc
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MycoLoopology
Eye's wide open



Registered: 06/12/16
Posts: 518
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Pcing poo? [Re: Ogla]
#23341318 - 06/13/16 09:37 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
losfreddy said: I wonder if maybe there too much moisture or something. I put a great deal of effort into this and hate loosing grows at the last minute. Like you said, its like im missing something. I wonder if for some reason the poo isnt getting cooked long enough. I was thinking of pcing but wonder if that would stink my pc
ive only used hpoo 3 or 4 times total in my entire time doing this. and it wasnt even my grow, but a friends i was helping with. but ime, FULLY DRIED hpoo doesnt smell up the PC whatsoever. he made the mistake of buying fresh hpoo the first time and that was a mess lol.
outdoor, sundried hpoo though has almost no smell at all from what i could tell. that friend of mine still swears by sun dried hpoo for ALL his grows. im still a coir man myself though
-------------------- Current Grow Log ^^My first grow log <3^^ Wish me luck.
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liloldme
( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)つ=D



Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5,087
Loc: Zone 8
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Hpoo can be difficult to get the right moisture content, it goes green quick if it's too moist. I assume you're boiling it in a pillow case? how are you getting the extra water out? I used to jump on it in between two boards then hang overnight and it was still not enough at times.
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Ogla



Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 11,314
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I used to make mixes of poo and coir, but since i was able to get poo in abundance, i decided to start using 100% poo. I just dont wanna pc, then use indoors to mke house smell like. My roommates would be pissed off. Lol
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MycoLoopology
Eye's wide open



Registered: 06/12/16
Posts: 518
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Quote:
liloldme said: Hpoo can be difficult to get the right moisture content, it goes green quick if it's too moist. I assume you're boiling it in a pillow case? how are you getting the extra water out? I used to jump on it in between two boards then hang overnight and it was still not enough at times.
hm i wasnt aware it was that big of an issue. moisture definitely plays a big role in this hobby though so thats definitely a possibility.
i just realized you are using 100% hpoo as well. have you thought about mixing in verm? i believe the ratio my friend uses is 70% hpoo 30% verm with a pinch of gypsum to boot(though im not sure this will fix your issue). he uses PC to pasteurize as well; in bags now, but originally in ball jars.
checking moisture content i think is the same way i do it for my cvg mix though. grab a handful and squeeze! as long as you dont have a crazy stream of liquid pouring out, and only some nice droplets, moisture content should be about right.
the poster aboves method of removing excess liquid seems very extreme though lmao. perhaps thats what is necessary though eh? its a meticulous process. gotta go back over every step and find the one thing thats causing the problem -__- frustrating i know, but this is how we all learn right? hell, im learning from YOUR mistake as we speak :p
-------------------- Current Grow Log ^^My first grow log <3^^ Wish me luck.
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Ogla



Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 11,314
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Quote:
liloldme said: Hpoo can be difficult to get the right moisture content, it goes green quick if it's too moist. I assume you're boiling it in a pillow case? how are you getting the extra water out? I used to jump on it in between two boards then hang overnight and it was still not enough at times.
I am cooking in a pillow case.. Never let it quiet get to boiling, at most a low simmer but it does roll and steam. I get thewater out first by dumping, then i leech it over a netted stool thing thats meant for outdoor patio furniture, then i lean on it as hard as i can with all my weight and squeeze it making sure to tighten and go back and forth over the ends of tbe pillow case. I actually am starting to think it's a moisture problem. Even thou when making the tub, it seems the content is right., once it grows thru the substrate, there seems to be excess moisture. But then i wonder why this would happen if i cooked it long enough.
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MountainManDan
Stranger


Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 298
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Pcing poo? [Re: Ogla]
#23341503 - 06/13/16 10:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
losfreddy said: I pasturalize outdoors on propane stove and let it run until gas goes out. This usually takes about 4 hours or more.
Are you certain you are pasteurizing correctly? I believe you need to keep sub between 140 and 170 F for 1 hr. Exceeding 170 degrees F will partially sterilize your sub which is no bueno. If your water/sub is boiling that means you have temps around 212 which is way too hot.
Pasteurizing for more than a hour will only increase your likelihood for contamination. After the hour passes they need to cool before spawning. I would suggest pasteurizing via Franks Method and see if your problems continue.
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MycoLoopology
Eye's wide open



Registered: 06/12/16
Posts: 518
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Quote:
MountainManDan said:
Quote:
losfreddy said: I pasturalize outdoors on propane stove and let it run until gas goes out. This usually takes about 4 hours or more.
Are you certain you are pasteurizing correctly? I believe you need to keep sub between 140 and 170 F for 1 hr. Exceeding 170 degrees F will partially sterilize your sub which is no bueno. If your water/sub is boiling that means you have temps around 212 which is way too hot.
Pasteurizing for more than a hour will only increase your likelihood for contamination. After the hour passes they need to cool before spawning. I would suggest pasteurizing via Franks Method and see if your problems continue.
i was just thinking the same thing. this man may have hit the nail on the head.
also franks method is just about fool proof and works every time. its basically EXACTLY what i do lol. i believe itll work for hpoo/verm mix as well so long as you know the right temps to keep it pasteurized and not sterilized!
-------------------- Current Grow Log ^^My first grow log <3^^ Wish me luck.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Ya i would say over pasteurizing is the likely culprit. 4 hours sounds like way too long to me. Also, how do you monitor temps when you pasteurize?
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Ogla



Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 11,314
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Would it really matter much to sterilize vs Pasturalize?
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Pcing poo? [Re: Ogla]
#23341549 - 06/13/16 10:40 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
losfreddy said: Getting quiet frustrated and idk whats going on. Past two grows have caught contamination on the substrate after going to tub. Ive been using 100% horse poo. I pasturalize outdoors on propane stove and let it run until gas goes out. This usually takes about 4 hours or more. Since my tubs are used and old, i throughly wash with bleach and dishsoap before wiping with rubbing alcohol when i make my casing. I leech and squeeze out the poo over a netted outdoor stool. I even wipe down the inside of the closet with 409 and orange degreaser extra.l, but the past two times i get contamination. This past time a suran wrapped all the tubs, but still got mold. Im wondering if maybe i should pc the poo (outdoors of course) or switch to 50/50 coir verm. Any ideas on what i can do to stop this from happening?
"Until the gas runs out" isn't a good pasteurization procedure. You need to be getting the center temperature up to 140-170 for an hour.
Search for The improved bucket tek, too.
Get the manure to field capacity and then put it in jars or big ziplock bags to pasteurize in a water bath. It will be much easier. All that squeezing is old-school and a PITA.
I don't know what you mean by leeching, but what you are doing is not leeching. If your manure needs to be leeched because of not being field aged, then it's not ready and probably contributing to contamination along with the rest of your technique.
Suran wrapping the tubs can cause CO2 build up and contribute to anaerobic bacteria growth.
I have only limited experience with horse manure, but I haven't seen anything that makes me think it's better than coir, either in my own experience or on this forum. The biggest benefit seems to be price.
If you've been doing it the same way for a long time without issues, then it's probably your spawn. Properly pasteurized manure and colonized clean spawn is pretty contam resistant. If you're getting mold, my money says it's your pasteurization technique or not enough GE during colonization.
All the chemical sanitation is over-kill. I still occasionally wipe things down with bleach water, especially after a break out. But, the tubs just get soap and water after a grow.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Pcing poo? [Re: Ogla]
#23341551 - 06/13/16 10:40 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Definitely with poo. Poo needs pasteurization to keep beneficial bacteria alive to aid myc in colonization and inhibit comtaminant growth
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Pcing poo? [Re: Ogla] 1
#23341557 - 06/13/16 10:42 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
losfreddy said: Would it really matter much to sterilize vs Pasturalize?
With manure, absolutely. If you sterilize manure, it needs to stay in sterile conditions until colonized or you run a high risk of contamination.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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MountainManDan
Stranger


Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 298
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Pcing poo? [Re: Ogla]
#23341572 - 06/13/16 10:46 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
losfreddy said: Would it really matter much to sterilize vs Pasturalize?
Without a doubt.
If you sterilize grains/agar/whatever and let it out in the open air it will contam guaranteed. Pasteurization kills off a certain level of bacteria/microorganisms while allowing beneficial ones the opportunity to take hold of the medium. This is why the cooling aspect of pasteurization is so important.
We spawn in open air and do not get contams. We inoculate in sterile conditions to avoid contams.
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MycoLoopology
Eye's wide open



Registered: 06/12/16
Posts: 518
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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just based on your comment about sterilized substrate vs pasteurized substrate, im going to bet that this is most likely your issue.
others already covered it.
but tldr; proper pasteurizing leaves needed organisms which combat contamination. sterilized substrate will contam in open air easily.
-------------------- Current Grow Log ^^My first grow log <3^^ Wish me luck.
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Ogla



Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 11,314
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Thats why i love you guys. I think i can still get some mushrooms off these grows, but at least for next grow ill work on my sterilization techniques
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MountainManDan
Stranger


Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 298
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Pcing poo? [Re: Ogla] 1
#23341695 - 06/13/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
losfreddy said: Thats why i love you guys. I think i can still get some mushrooms off these grows, but at least for next grow ill work on my sterilization techniques
Pasteurization techniques not sterilization techniques Are you even reading the helpful comments you are given?
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liloldme
( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)つ=D



Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5,087
Loc: Zone 8
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I used to boil about 4 pillow cases full at once in a 55 gallon drum outside on a cinder block rocket stove with burning wood, talk about a pain in the ass to get the excess water out.. Ever since I started steam pasteurizing I'll never go back.
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FreeWorldOrder


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA
Last seen: 8 days, 16 hours
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Quote:
liloldme said: I used to boil about 4 pillow cases full at once in a 55 gallon drum outside on a cinder block rocket stove with burning wood, talk about a pain in the ass to get the excess water out.. Ever since I started steam pasteurizing I'll never go back.
If you are boiling it then you are sterilizing... not pasteurizing.
Also, I have never heard of "steam pasteurizing"....
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK
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liloldme
( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)つ=D



Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5,087
Loc: Zone 8
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Boil is not the word I meant to use my bad.. Lightly simmer aha
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23341904
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Ogla



Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 11,314
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Quote:
liloldme said: Boil is not the word I meant to use my bad.. Lightly simmer aha
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23341904
different for sure
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