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moonrockmushy
High on Spite


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Doc9151]
#26499993 - 02/23/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't think there's really a difference between synthetic and natural opiates as far as addiction goes. I have been to the point where kratom doesn't work before off both heroin and fent, but that's more related to the fact that kratom just isn't that strong, and those are strong drugs that you'll need to taper down on before kratom offers any relief. I've used it to come off oxycodone as well, which went fine.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#26595022 - 04/12/20 04:11 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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A while back in this thread I asked for peoples opinions on an ex junkie (me) potentially using kratom again and understandably was advised not to risk it.
Checking back in merely to share my experience. I ended up getting 1/2kg of kratom a while back and have found it totally manageable, I can pick it up and put it back down without issue.
I imagine most ex junkies wouldn't want to risk messing with opiates again, but I knew in my heart that my problem was only with heroin. So if there's anybody else out there who knows that in their heart, you might be good to go.
But man I got some 3 fpm for the first time and holy shit, instant addiction. Learned that smoke-able hard drugs are where I lose control. anything oral or nasal i can control myself with just fine.
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Doc9151
Mycologist


Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Psilosopherr]
#26595157 - 04/12/20 07:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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people recommend you not play with things like that because it tickles that spot that we like to much and will inevitably lead back to your drug of choice. it's like playing with fire around a gas farm, things may go well for a while but eventually the whole situation blows up in your face.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Doc9151]
#26595203 - 04/12/20 08:12 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I hear you. Not for me though. I didn't even like heroin to begin with, just got hooked. No idea where to get it anymore anyways. And there's simply no doubt in my mind that I'll never touch it again.
Maybe I shoulda just kept this to myself, because I'd hate for somebody else to think they can handle it and then fall down the slope again. But, we all know the rules.
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Doc9151
Mycologist


Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Psilosopherr]
#26595512 - 04/12/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I feel that we are playing with fire when we use anything remotely similar to our drug of choice, it's easy to say we won't ever do something.
From what I have seen and experienced, we are most dangerous to ourselves when we think we have control over something that we have never had control over in the first place. Relapse is life threatening, most don't jump right back into recovery but return to the cycle of insanity, very few make it back, it took me 10 years after my last fuck up to even attempt to get a hold on my disease.
Suffering from chronic pain has made it easier for me to justify my use to myself and others, but in reality I was abusing my meds and my self, it took several good friends dying for me to try again. It's so hard to get past the withdrawals and cravings in the beginning that most people with clean time don't want to risk it.
You're the only person that can make those decisions, we can only share our experiences, I wish you luck.
Regards, Doc
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Yonatin


Registered: 09/05/17
Posts: 654
Loc:
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Psilosopherr]
#26609875 - 04/18/20 08:44 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilosopherr said: I hear you. Not for me though. I didn't even like heroin to begin with, just got hooked. No idea where to get it anymore anyways. And there's simply no doubt in my mind that I'll never touch it again.
Maybe I shoulda just kept this to myself, because I'd hate for somebody else to think they can handle it and then fall down the slope again. But, we all know the rules.
I take Kratom everyday, I don’t see it at all becoming a problem. I’m in the same boat you are though, I never really wanted to get into heroin but it just happened and I couldn’t get it now even if I wanted it. I find it actually helps ease the cravings I had for heroin and it actually helps with stress and all the other things life throws my way. Of course not everyone can separate the two and kratom might lead them to relapse but I know for me it works and it has helped so I will continue taking it for the time being.
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Typerwritermonky
shboop a doop a doop


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 5,375
Loc: Mrs. Brown's Teahouse
Last seen: 1 day, 19 hours
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Yonatin] 1
#26634612 - 04/28/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Kratom can work well as an MAT... actually probably better then suboxone in many ways and definitely better then methadone. The only problem is dosing it constantly, as well as a significant high is still possible to obtain on it. Methadone IMO is the worst MAT. You can get LIT from it, you can still use heroin on and off or whatever your opiate of choice is, and the slavery to the clinic is terrible. Suboxone is better then methadone by leagues and miles, but then it requires a long, slow tapering phase that isn't super pleasant and inevitably ends stepping off the last 2mg very unpleasant and slowly. Like I suggest people who stop suboxone to go from 2mg, to 1.5mg, to 1mg, to .75mg, to .5mg, to .25mg to .125mg etc and then jump. And do that over the period of a few months. But suboxone definitely works when used correctly, it just takes a strong mindset. As well, it takes fentanyl to break through the bupe, so most people like I when taking it didn't even bother to try to use knowing I just wouldn't even get high (never used fent on purpose and wasnt worth using pure fent to breakthrough the bupe).
Kratom though beats methadone and suboxone, but IMO the best way to handle it is to use suboxone and over a year taper to >1mg and then start using small amounts of kratom to make the jump. Then use kratom for the first two weeks in the smallest amounts possible, then taper off of the kratom over the next few weeks during the worst of the PAWS phase. Then once you've got your life together, your mind together, and know what you want - taper off the kratom and reach no opioid/opiate activity at all in your body. Small supplements of ibogaine at the end are very helpful too.
So yeah, thats the way I did it. Suboxone->Kratom for a month->small supplements of ibogaine daily for a week or two. Then nothing. Last year around this time I was shooting speedballs on the streets in the ghetto of SF overnight stealing from my friends to support myself - and now I'm comfortably healthy, happy, saved up lots of money, have the car I always wanted, have the job I always wanted, and it looks like my legal stuff is going to get dismissed. Have my family back, my friends that I want back... it's beyond crazy.
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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I've wanted to try the ibogaine route, read a lot of good information but I would want to be with an experienced sitter
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Doc9151]
#26637114 - 04/29/20 04:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey everyone, I'm struggling with some strong ass cravings to get high right now, took a few walks to keep my mind busy but every time I get back to the house it picks up were it left off. I can't stay away from the house because I have to care for my mom after she broke her arm and leg. Tried smoking weed but this is an opiate craving and it is causing false pain symptoms, anxiety, muscle spasms, almost like withdrawal.
What do you do when you are feeling like this? It has to be psychological from being locked up for so long with everything going on I'm not able to get a stay busy like before and I have run out of things to do at home.
Going to try to do some microscopy to distract myself, hopefully it will work, I just need to get through the next minute at a time right now.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Doc9151]
#26639929 - 04/30/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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In a better place today but man shit just keeps getting worse 😪, I found out last Thursday that the man whom has raised me and is my father in my mind was diagnosed with lung, liver and bone cancer.
Today, it started out great, met a fellow shroomery member to hunt Chanterelles and get me out of my head. We found enough for us both to take some home and we went our own way, the day was going great...
All of the sudden about 30 minutes after returning from the hunt my daughter started blowing up my phone, she was at the doctor's office for some lady issues, she tells me that she was just diagnosed with cancer.
Its like wtf, why am I always getting shit on my plate, I'm trying to live right and be a good father, grandfather. friend, but my life has been full of tragic events one after another. I buried my oldest son already, I don't want to have to go through anything like that again!
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change and the courage to change the things I can. I need this more than anything right now.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (04/30/20 08:45 PM)
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Yonatin


Registered: 09/05/17
Posts: 654
Loc:
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Doc9151]
#26640965 - 05/01/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I’m sorry you aren’t doing so well, and I’m also sorry to hear about your daughter. It will probably get worse before it gets better but know you’re strong enough to get through it. Remind yourself how bad it was when you used and think, can you afford to have it that bad ON TOP of what you’re going through now? I bet you feel like you’re about to break but just think about being strong for those who need you now. They need the clean and sober you and getting high wont help them or yourself. Stay strong, you’ve got this!
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Yonatin]
#26648312 - 05/04/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yonatin, thank you for your reply, I'm definitely the key stone for my family, young and old both depend on me to make the right decisions for them when it comes to medical care particularly, along with much more.
Right now, I feel like I'm standing on thin ice instead of the granite foundation I'm used too. The cravings I've been having have not been this intense for a long time now. Staying busy from the time I wake up until I pass out from exhaustion is how I been making it, my own health issues are making it very difficult and that's why I want to use. Pain is my biggest issue and the cause of my addiction, I'm running out of solutions.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Yonatin


Registered: 09/05/17
Posts: 654
Loc:
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Doc9151] 1
#26661768 - 05/10/20 07:03 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I feel you on working yourself into the ground, I think you should try and get out into nature or do something for yourself for a day. You sound overwhelmed and I know if I was in your shoes I’d be in the mountains just sitting and thinking, or not thinking and just absorbing the serenity of nature. Thinking of it right now makes me want to just go out and sit on a rock and take it in. 1st thing take a day for you. 2nd thing relax and clear your mind. 3rd thing don’t feed into the cravings, cravings can have a repetitive loop cycle that only gets worse as you continue to feed them with thoughts about using and thoughts about themselves. End the cycle and think about yourself first and what you really really need to stay strong. Also here is a “what if” scenarios; what would that day after you used look like ? It will most likely be a day of shame, that will just make you feel worse than the cravings. I hope all is well and hang in there.
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Anonymous #11
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Yonatin]
#26781953 - 06/25/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don’t think I have the strength to make it out of withdrawal. I don’t want to feel like this anymore.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #11] 1
#26782095 - 06/25/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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option 1) endure and never feel that way again option 2) doom yourself to feel that way repeatedly the rest of your life
Maybe thats trite to say, but you can do it man! Its not unlike having a bad flu for a few months, you can handle the flu. small price to pay for getting your life back
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mndfreeze 
Shroomery Secret Service




Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 20,529
Loc: PuppetMasterFlash
Last seen: 17 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #11]
#26783582 - 06/26/20 03:06 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anonymous #11 said: I don’t think I have the strength to make it out of withdrawal. I don’t want to feel like this anymore.
You don't have to go it alone you know.
-------------------- Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus! quote]Urb said: I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: mndfreeze]
#26784075 - 06/26/20 09:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
mndfreeze said:
Quote:
Anonymous #11 said: I don’t think I have the strength to make it out of withdrawal. I don’t want to feel like this anymore.
You don't have to go it alone you know.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Anonymous #11
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26791637 - 06/29/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I failed. I’m sorry.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #11]
#26792134 - 06/29/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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We think of the key, each in his prison thinking of the key, each confirms a prison.
T.S Eliot, The Waste Land
We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time.
T.S.Eliot, Little Gidding
Dai E Zenji’s Vow for Awakening (1st Half of Sutra):
Our only prayer is to be firm in our determination to give ourselves completely to the Buddha’s Way, so that no doubts arise however long the road seems to be. To be light and easy in the four parts of the body; to be strong and undismayed in body and in mind; to be free from illness and drive out both depressed feelings and distraction; to be free from calamity, misfortune, harmful influences and obstructions; not to seek the Truth outside of ourselves, so we may instantly enter the right way; to be unattached to all thoughts that we may reach the perfectly clear bright mind of Wisdom and have immediate enlightenment on the Great Matter.
* If you’re still alive, then that means you’ve got at least 1 more opportunity to make an appropriate course correction to your life so as to become well & healthy again. You are not alone, and you do not have to do it alone. When the opportunity is appropriate - Try, try, try again, or just Do it.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #11] 1
#26794997 - 06/30/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anonymous #11 said: I failed. I’m sorry.
Relapse is part of recovery, no one gets it the first time, it's what you do from now on that matters. Don't feel like you have to be clean to go to a meeting, they only ask that you not share if you have less than 24 hours clean. If tapering is not something you can do to wean yourself off (I couldn't do it personally) then maybe you should consider a medication assisted withdrawal or maintenance program until you are really ready to quit.
Medication assisted maintenence should be a last resort because long acting opiates take longer to get out of the body. So, if you are on short acting opiates I would suffer through the 14 days of withdrawal rather than meds with Methadone because Methadone withdrawal months long on high doses. I quit Methadone once cold turkey at 150mg and up to 400mg a day habit and it took 6 months to get more than 2hrs sleep a night but with a proper taper it's much easier but you have to have only take enough to keep withdrawal away and not try to get high, eventually you can jump off and only be ill a couple days. My experience is that each relapse became worse and time in recovery fewer and fewer, it took 10 yrs to get back after my last relapse and I almost didn't make it. The sooner you do something about it the better it will be, trust me. Jails institutions and death are the true reality of addiction. which will it be for you if you don't choose recovery?
Recovery is about doing what it takes to get better, if you fuck up admit it and get your ass to a meeting or something similar.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (06/30/20 04:47 PM)
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