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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: feevers] 1
#25827026 - 02/21/19 08:02 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Really enjoying this new JRE podcast on addiction. It's nothing groundbreaking but Hari does really well at summing up some of the major misconceptions and what works/doesn't work in recovery and rehabilitation.
The main takeaway is something I've been preaching since getting clean.
The rat study where they drink the cocaine water until they die is completely flawed. Their environment is nothing more than a box, the only stimulation they have is from the drug.
The same experiment in an enriched environment, "rat park", where they had toys, an exercise wheel, other rats... the results were vastly different.
We put addicts in jail cells and dull rehab centers. We put them into the exact circumstances where addiction grows and thrives.
The lack of a substance does not mean lack of addiction. Negative thought patterns and habits are addicting in their own way, and can quickly transfer over into substance abuse once the substance becomes available.
The best shot an addict has is turning their life and environment into "rat park".
I think a lot of why we see so much addiction in celebrities is because they become obsessed with the attention and ego boosting stimulation. The things that they found meaning in before their fame become trivial and boring compared to being out on stage in front of thousands or logging into instagram and seeing a million followers. Addiction isn't the opposite of being clean, it's the opposite of being meaningfully engaged with your environment and the present moment.
Set yourself up with opportunities for meaningful engagement with the world and immerse yourself in it. It's way easier said than done, but for myself at least it was the only way out. It's not linear and it's not quick, but the world becomes so much bigger when you stop numbing most of it out
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trvptamine
P-Mx$$



Registered: 07/06/15
Posts: 4,859
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: feevers]
#25827081 - 02/21/19 08:20 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Completely agreed feevers.
Update on my addiction: Kratom has basically stopped working for me. I dont want to push farther than 45g at a time, because even at that dose the eye wiggles get pretty bad with littl or no euphoria. Ive been doing heroin pretty often but Ive only been smoking it. I made sure to not have any needles when I get my packages in from my friend. I know im playing with fire, but now that my tolerance is so low again it just feels so great. When I was shooting up everyday it never really felt that great, but now its like heaven.
I know this is the wrong place to be glorifying it. Thats just how ive been feeling lately.
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: trvptamine]
#25827157 - 02/21/19 08:46 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
trvptamine said: Completely agreed feevers.
Update on my addiction: Kratom has basically stopped working for me. I dont want to push farther than 45g at a time, because even at that dose the eye wiggles get pretty bad with littl or no euphoria. Ive been doing heroin pretty often but Ive only been smoking it. I made sure to not have any needles when I get my packages in from my friend. I know im playing with fire, but now that my tolerance is so low again it just feels so great. When I was shooting up everyday it never really felt that great, but now its like heaven.
I know this is the wrong place to be glorifying it. Thats just how ive been feeling lately.
damn. at least smoking it is harm reduction somewhat. definitely not impossible to overdose, but at least it's more difficult than shooting.
that was always when it was the hardest to quit for me, when it's feeling good and it seems like there's little downside. I'm guessing you're still getting minor wd symptoms the days after though?
I know you said your new insurance doesn't cover subs, any chance of getting a different insurance? even paying more out of pocket may not be much more than you're spending on dope
I just know when I was "chipping" every time I used I was actually just digging the hole one shovel-full deeper. I was looking at the short-term while the junk was getting deep into my brain and playing the long game
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trvptamine
P-Mx$$



Registered: 07/06/15
Posts: 4,859
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: feevers]
#25827180 - 02/21/19 08:54 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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They actually have me on gabapentin for "heroin cravings" right now. I only use it every few days to catch a buzz though instead of taking the prescribed 600mg 3x a day.
And nah I havent had any withdrawals since August. It think its because I went over a month without it or any other drugs at all. Also DXM seemed to shorten the withdrawals quite a bit.
Im also just getting it for free lately. My friend in OKC has started dealing and hes just been sending me small amounts for free every once in a while. I know its not good. Im gonna tell him to stop giving it to me for free after this next pack comes in.
I think if I were to get back on a heroin substitute again I would go for methadone instead of suboxone. Subs were great for the 7 months I was on them, but they made me a really angry person for some reason. Also Im so used to suboxone now I cant catch a buzz from them no matter how much I take. Ive tried dfoubling my 8mg dose, plugging, and IV. It all feels the same as just taking the 8mg as im supposed to. If I were to get on amedical opioid again on purpose it would have to be methadone so I could still catch a buzz. Since I dont really need it for withdrawals at the moment.
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Morel Guy
Stranger


Registered: 01/23/13
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: trvptamine]
#25827411 - 02/21/19 10:23 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Follow treatment. It doesn't suck if you are working out your issues. Drugs don't solve problems like we tend to think diagnosis and specific drug seems to imply.
A painkiller can cause a lot of pain. I was hooked on those real bad as a senior in high school. Then a little bit with oc's after stopping meds. I forgot I liked weed. It's an issue that a fake oc just freaked me out about. Suspected fake oc.
I didn't know how to get by without trying to legitamize illegal drugs. Treatment works and it takes a whole life time to see the wisdom.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: trvptamine]
#25827432 - 02/21/19 10:30 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
trvptamine said: They actually have me on gabapentin for "heroin cravings" right now. I only use it every few days to catch a buzz though instead of taking the prescribed 600mg 3x a day.
And nah I havent had any withdrawals since August. It think its because I went over a month without it or any other drugs at all. Also DXM seemed to shorten the withdrawals quite a bit.
Im also just getting it for free lately. My friend in OKC has started dealing and hes just been sending me small amounts for free every once in a while. I know its not good. Im gonna tell him to stop giving it to me for free after this next pack comes in.
I think if I were to get back on a heroin substitute again I would go for methadone instead of suboxone. Subs were great for the 7 months I was on them, but they made me a really angry person for some reason. Also Im so used to suboxone now I cant catch a buzz from them no matter how much I take. Ive tried dfoubling my 8mg dose, plugging, and IV. It all feels the same as just taking the 8mg as im supposed to. If I were to get on amedical opioid again on purpose it would have to be methadone so I could still catch a buzz. Since I dont really need it for withdrawals at the moment.
yea I remember when I first got on subs and the doctor told me there'd be a constant buzz  that buzz lasted like a week, then it was just feeling normal. Occasionally a slight nod but no euphoria or anything in it. they were awesome at keeping me off dope and getting my life back to normal though, almost no cravings. still not the biggest fan of what they do to the brain but I'd probably be dead if I had never got on them.
are you looking to stop? you're posting in the support group which I assume means you're trying in some ways to slow down or quit, seems like your long term view has you still chasing buzzes though
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trvptamine
P-Mx$$



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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: feevers]
#25827625 - 02/21/19 12:14 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah I want to quit completely. But Ive just been doing dumb shit lately.
Heroin has brought me to my knees multiple times already. Ive gotten clean multiple times and relapsed multiple times. And every time the rock bottom was even lower.
This time I havent been using it everyday though, because I moved out to the country where I cant constantly get it. Ive been using it recreationally. I know I need to stop though. The psychological part of the addiction is still very real even when I dont realize it.
I need to get checked for Hep-c. My state has a higher rate than most places, and Ive knowingly shot up after people who had it. It was out of desperation cause I didnt have my own syringe at the time.
I have a bad problem about doing dumb shit I know I shouldnt do. When it comes time to decide weather to do right or wrong I usually choose wrong as long as im not immediately hurting someone else.
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: feevers]
#25828664 - 02/21/19 07:54 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Really enjoying this new JRE podcast on addiction. It's nothing groundbreaking but Hari does really well at summing up some of the major misconceptions and what works/doesn't work in recovery and rehabilitation.
The main takeaway is something I've been preaching since getting clean.
The rat study where they drink the cocaine water until they die is completely flawed. Their environment is nothing more than a box, the only stimulation they have is from the drug.
The same experiment in an enriched environment, "rat park", where they had toys, an exercise wheel, other rats... the results were vastly different.
We put addicts in jail cells and dull rehab centers. We put them into the exact circumstances where addiction grows and thrives.
The lack of a substance does not mean lack of addiction. Negative thought patterns and habits are addicting in their own way, and can quickly transfer over into substance abuse once the substance becomes available.
The best shot an addict has is turning their life and environment into "rat park".
I think a lot of why we see so much addiction in celebrities is because they become obsessed with the attention and ego boosting stimulation. The things that they found meaning in before their fame become trivial and boring compared to being out on stage in front of thousands or logging into instagram and seeing a million followers. Addiction isn't the opposite of being clean, it's the opposite of being meaningfully engaged with your environment and the present moment.
Set yourself up with opportunities for meaningful engagement with the world and immerse yourself in it. It's way easier said than done, but for myself at least it was the only way out. It's not linear and it's not quick, but the world becomes so much bigger when you stop numbing most of it out
Thats a good point. I'll have to check out that podcast. Ive heard of the rat park concept before and it makes sense. Rats share some really interesting similarities to humans.
Ive been listening to a lot of lectures by Jordan Peterson in the past months and Ive found them immensely helpful in gaining perspective on addiction and life in general. Theres so much that Ive heard from him that just feels to be innately true.
People need purpose/meaning in life. Nietzsche- "He who has a why can bear any how" If you feel life is pointless suffering you become nihilistic. You chase hedonism, become bitter and cruel. Life is not about happiness, its about meaning. You get to decide whats meaningful to you.
I got 4 months clean today
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trvptamine
P-Mx$$



Registered: 07/06/15
Posts: 4,859
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I like what you said about being about meaning. I want my meaning to be a music producer. To make music that people can relate to and that makes them happy.
Drugs have helped me stay up for days and make music, but theyve also not let me get out and do the things I need to do to become better.
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: trvptamine] 1
#25830892 - 02/22/19 07:56 PM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey thanks man, still trying to find meaning myself. I know what youre saying about drugs helping in your pursuits. They feel like they do, and you really can get a lot done in a short amount of time on a binge of whatever that fuels your mania. Then you crash and cant keep up the pace any longer and or burden yourself with more problems.
You should pursue your dream man, it sounds like a noble and positive one.
Right now im working on lifting myself up so that I can be of more use/help to those in my immediate circle.
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: trvptamine]
#25831280 - 02/23/19 01:14 AM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
trvptamine said: I like what you said about being about meaning. I want my meaning to be a music producer. To make music that people can relate to and that makes them happy.
Drugs have helped me stay up for days and make music, but theyve also not let me get out and do the things I need to do to become better.
I don't know how old you are but I assume your 20 something, it will eventually get to the point that music doesn't matter, nor does sex or anything else but your drug of choice. Life becomes about chasing dope to keep from getting sick and it's an endless cycle. I wish you the best and pray nothing ever happens to where you HAVE to have dope. I've had a couple strokes and that has caused me much physical pain and now I'm a junkie in pain and that's a real fucking nightmare. Withdrawal is a mother fucker on its own but you add in a medical condition that causes pain and it's a suicidal fucking time bomb my friend.
I'm sharing my heartache with the world so that maybe, just maybe one person will read this and it will make a difference, some how. I never had a drug problem until I got sick and now the law tells the doctor what I can have and how much, not giving a damn about how it affects me and everyone like me.
My point is, if you can live without using, do it. This ain't no fucking joke, it starts out fun and turns into pure evil.
Now, I'm not saying all drugs are bad. Marijuana and psilocybe mushrooms are the only safe drugs out there in my opinion.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: trvptamine]
#25835912 - 02/25/19 12:17 AM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
trvptamine said:
Yeah I want to quit completely.
I doubt it. The fact is, you have the desire to no longer choose this behavior, but you also see much benefit in using. Accepting the fact you are making a choice will help avoid the powerless mythology of "relapse" and "rock bottom".
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trvptamine
P-Mx$$



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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: Doc9151]
#25844399 - 02/28/19 06:39 PM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Not this guy again... @RJ Tubs I do accept the fact that im making a choice. I know its my choice whether I continue on using or not. I do want to quit completely, and Ive come a long way toward my goal of doing that and maybe also fallen a bit away from the goal again as well. But at the rate im using at the moment I dont see much harm in it. Im not anywhere near as bad off as I was 6 months ago when I was constantly dope-sick and all I cared about was getting my heroin for the day. On that same note I realize that continuing to use every once in a while will likely eventually lead back to the same place I was in. For the time being though Im not too bothered my my using every once in a while though, because I know I cant just get it whenever I want anymore living out in the country now. I will have to stop completely again before I move back to the city though, because I know I will be right back into daily use if I dont. I wont be moving back to the city anytime soon though specifically because I still havent gotten to the point of saying no every time like I need to.
Quote:
Doc9151 said:
Quote:
trvptamine said: I like what you said about being about meaning. I want my meaning to be a music producer. To make music that people can relate to and that makes them happy.
Drugs have helped me stay up for days and make music, but theyve also not let me get out and do the things I need to do to become better.
I don't know how old you are but I assume your 20 something, it will eventually get to the point that music doesn't matter, nor does sex or anything else but your drug of choice. Life becomes about chasing dope to keep from getting sick and it's an endless cycle. I wish you the best and pray nothing ever happens to where you HAVE to have dope. I've had a couple strokes and that has caused me much physical pain and now I'm a junkie in pain and that's a real fucking nightmare. Withdrawal is a mother fucker on its own but you add in a medical condition that causes pain and it's a suicidal fucking time bomb my friend.
I'm sharing my heartache with the world so that maybe, just maybe one person will read this and it will make a difference, some how. I never had a drug problem until I got sick and now the law tells the doctor what I can have and how much, not giving a damn about how it affects me and everyone like me.
My point is, if you can live without using, do it. This ain't no fucking joke, it starts out fun and turns into pure evil.
Now, I'm not saying all drugs are bad. Marijuana and psilocybe mushrooms are the only safe drugs out there in my opinion.
I already know. Ive already been to the point of it becoming the only thing I care about. And stupidly I decided that I would like to feel the high again about 3 months after getting completely sober from it. Not getting sick from it now and having a lowered tolerance again have restored the joy in it for me, but I do realize that if I keep fucking around it will be a problem again soon. Having distance between my self and my dealer after moving away to help me get sober really did make it much easier to stop than if I was just right around the corner from him like before, but it also has given me the idea that its chill if I get high every once in a while again as well since I cant consistently get it.
I know what Ive been doing lately isnt smart. Right now it would be much easier for me to just not do it than it was 6 months or so ago. All I have to do is pull the trigger on not using anymore and that will be that. No dope-sickness or intense cravings at all. I know the only thing stopping me from doing it is my self as well. I know I dont want to go back to feeling like I need it to be alright. I have really just been acting immature lately by fucking around with it again. I know I can stop though, and I will. Im trying to get in to the practice of doing other things I enjoy when I want to feel the high from heroin again. This time im hoping when the time comes I will make the right decision.
I dont think I will ever be too far gone to come back again. Even if I did end up back in the seemingly hopeless place I was in not so long ago, I know I can work through the pain and live without needing to constantly have it again. I wouldnt consider where Im at a complete success, but I think Ive definitely improved my life and learned to love myself and the world around me again as well.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: trvptamine]
#25846846 - 03/01/19 11:26 PM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
trvptamine said: Not this guy again... @RJ Tubs I do accept the fact that im making a choice. I know its my choice whether I continue on using or not. I do want to quit completely, and Ive come a long way toward my goal of doing that and maybe also fallen a bit away from the goal again as well.
So you see your situation isn't black and white and you don't 100% want to quit?
You say (1) "at the rate im using at the moment I dont see much harm in it."
And (2) "I know what Ive been doing lately isnt smart."
Are those two perspectives congruent with each other . . . or in conflict?
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#25847418 - 03/02/19 10:19 AM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
trvptamine said: Not this guy again... @RJ Tubs I do accept the fact that im making a choice. I know its my choice whether I continue on using or not. I do want to quit completely, and Ive come a long way toward my goal of doing that and maybe also fallen a bit away from the goal again as well.
So you see your situation isn't black and white and you don't 100% want to quit?
You say (1) "at the rate im using at the moment I dont see much harm in it."
And (2) "I know what Ive been doing lately isnt smart."
Are those two perspectives congruent with each other . . . or in conflict?
Good question
So, you know you're fucking up but you feel like you got this shit, in reality you're just prolonging the inevitable. I thought I could use just like you do, it's now been 14years since I was last clean and now I have a serious medical condition that causes me severe pain that is intensified by withdrawal symptoms. If you can quit, do yourself a favor and quit.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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trvptamine
P-Mx$$



Registered: 07/06/15
Posts: 4,859
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#25851924 - 03/04/19 12:29 PM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
trvptamine said: Not this guy again... @RJ Tubs I do accept the fact that im making a choice. I know its my choice whether I continue on using or not. I do want to quit completely, and Ive come a long way toward my goal of doing that and maybe also fallen a bit away from the goal again as well.
So you see your situation isn't black and white and you don't 100% want to quit?
You say (1) "at the rate im using at the moment I dont see much harm in it."
And (2) "I know what Ive been doing lately isnt smart."
Are those two perspectives congruent with each other . . . or in conflict?
Youre right thats definitely a contradiction. I was pretty high when I said both of those things lol.
But I still think both stand true. I dont see harm in getting high every once in a while, but I know If I start to increse my usage to anywhere near the level it used to be at id be in trouble. So its not smart, but its also not really harming me at the moment.
I dont think im going to use again for at least a month or two though cause I cant risk losing everything Ive gained since I started caring about shit besides heroin again. The only way for me to not use again for a while is to just not go to OKC. My distance from my source is a good advantage I have to help me keep doing the right thing.
EDIT: I am also worried about starting this new job though. I havent worked anywhere without the help of heroin or suboxone in multiple years. Im kind of nervous about being able to perform well for a full work day without an opioid to help me.
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Edited by trvptamine (03/04/19 12:32 PM)
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Anonymous #2
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: trvptamine]
#25860732 - 03/08/19 11:36 AM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Anybody get tats to cover up old track marks? At this point I'm pretty sure that a tat on my hand of satan shitting on an eagle couldnt be worse employment wise than these dark track marks.
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: Anonymous #2]
#25861884 - 03/08/19 08:44 PM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sometimes a tat can be just as bad for employment, think long and hard about what to get. Best of luck to you.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Anonymous #7
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: Doc9151]
#25910561 - 04/01/19 09:42 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well, I'm officially fucked, I have been on opiates for 20+ years and the doctor has cut me off with nothing, cold fucking Turkey. I have had a couple strokes, multiple blood clots and right sided hemiparesis which causes me tremendous pain.
Apparently, Walmart has a list of what every doctor is writing and they send threatening letters to the doctor telling them that they will not fill their prescriptions anymore, well my doctor apparently freaked out and has cutoff all his patients opioids. I don't understand how they can do this to people, it amounts to torture.
I'm not a suicidal person but this truly scares me, I have about 2 days before full blown withdrawal sets in and really Amps up the pain and sickness. Pain is the only thing that has ever made me think about taking my life, it's like having something eat you alive from the inside out.
Now, not only do I have to feel the full weight of my disability, but withdrawal and I know what it's like, it's literally freaking me the fuck out and it ain't even started, yet.
I'm not sharing this because I want pity or sympathy, but to share my experience. Chronic pain is real and you add an addiction to it and man, are you in for a ride. Think long and hard before asking for or taking opioids, if you do have to take opiates, use ot as a last resort only.
Twenty odd years ago when the pain started, I never imagined that I would be where I am today, never imagined that doctors would be told how to practice medicine by law enforcement. Never imagined that they would just take away my meds, knowing what I will go through. Is there no decency, I didn't ask for this shit to happen, I damn sure didn't ask to be an addict.
All the so called experts told me in the beginning that studies showed that people suffering from real pain don't get addicted to opiates, it changes the way the brain processes them is what they said, the pain matrix and this receptor and that receptor, blah blah blah bullshit. They don't fucking know jack dick about pain or fucking drugs. They make me sick.
Now, back to me running out of time, I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for reading and for any suggestions offered. I'm seriously stressing out over, the pain is almost unbearable with the drugs and now I am going to run out in 2 days.
I guess I could take chances and buy street dope, but that's never been an option and I'm sure jail would be in the cards for sure if I went that route.
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Anonymous #8
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Re: Opiate addicts support group [Re: Anonymous #7]
#25910603 - 04/01/19 10:12 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Look into kratom. It will lessen your withdrawals.
The best place to get it is online, but if you’re in a pinch it can be purchased from most smoke shops and some gas stations.
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