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OfflinePeyoteZen
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Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral
    #2325725 - 02/12/04 03:36 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm 18 right now, soon to graduate highschool. I want to be a balanced, loving and open person, and maintain easy communication with my peers, but theres a blockage. Sometimes i feel like I am not human at all, and i am viewing the world through the eyes of a passive observer. My whole life i have been a wallflower, the shy type. Throw an emotionally rough childhood on top of that.

I am a deep thinker. I anylize and criticize probably too much for my own good. My thoughts get soooooo deep, and it feels like the whole universe is suffocating me. Everything is so complex. who am i? what am i supposed to be doing? I cannot even go through with my life, because i feel like i have to calculate the cause and effect of everything i do. Who am i hurting, who am i helping? Should i be helping? Do the chemical reactions that comprise emotions mean anything? It all leaves me very perplexed and overwhelmed. Leaving me with temptations to just give up (death, however i am too chicken shit for suicide.. plus i am still hoping i can figure this all out).

I have good periods, where i can just relax and be happy to be alive. Listening to "dont worry be happy"...with a pipe in hand. But most of my time is occupied by these needlessly complex and helpless thoughts. I think to myself, why am i even thinking? Does any of this matter...in the distant future, will there even be a trace of my actions left in the universe?

It is only after certain written passages, songs, and likewise experiences that i can say "it doesnt really matter if i dont understand everything, i should just live my life to be happy, cooperative and compassionate, offering these things to the people and things around me" . but then i will wake up the next morning and that mind frame is just gone. completely erased from mind.

I'm definitely leaving other peices of the puzzle out, due to scatter brained-ness and making a half-ass attempt at being concise.

My question is...do any of you experience this? how have you coped with it? Could this be primarily due to the childhood-adult transition?
I guess i just need someone to point me in the right direction, and maybe a some words of wisdom. Fireworks god you always seem to bring the human being out of me, with your optimistic posts. Any pointers?

sorry for subjecting you guys to this lengthy, whiny, highschool kid rant. I know i have alot to learn. any guidance would be tremendously appreciated

peace


--------------------
ISLAMIC MIGRANT CRIME WAVE COMING TO A GRANNSKAP NEAR YOU!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2325813 - 02/12/04 05:00 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Hehe, damn, I was scrolling down to reply and almost skipped the last part in your post, and then I thought I saw my name, so I read up again and there it was. :wink:

I've faced similar things. Especially "Why the hell even try?" I've had moments where I spiral off into the negative abyss... I start to fear what is to come. Things I do that give me satisfaction and make me feel alive doing, things that make me feel like me will no longer have any meaning in that negative state of mind.... it all feels like drudgery with no hope of anything to come.

Anyways, what it comes down to is deciding which perspective you are going to take. I no longer tend to think through the more negative one and work away from it as quickly as possible when I do get caught up in it because it serves no real benefit.

When I think negatively, life sucks and I have no ambition to do anything. What I have in the moment isn't enough for enjoyment, and it should be. If I think positively, then life is appreciated.

What it comes down to is changing your state of mind. Anytime you are caught in a negative loop, start to consciously realize how it isn't benefiting you and it is actually seperating you from what life is all about, and then start to shift your state of mind away from it. At first it takes a lot of work, but the more you have to struggle to think positively now, the easier it is later.

Your thoughts today create who you are tomorrow. It seriously comes down to deciding to think in either a negative frame of mind or a positive one. Consciously make the choice of which one you want to perceive the world through. There is no middle ground.. either you are enjoying the moment and the experience or you are seperating yourself from it.

Anyways, dude, get the book Handbook to Higher Consciousness by Ken Keyes Jr. Read it and try it out, think the right thoughts even if you have five other thoughts telling you how that one thought is bullshit. Continue thinking it. It will end up being a key to positive thinking. :wink:

If I didn't touch on the right things or you want me to offer my perspective on something else, then just tell me. I didn't know exactly what to say because your post was pretty broad. :wink:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblemuhurgle
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2325965 - 02/12/04 08:36 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

why am i even thinking? Does any of this matter

There is no reason and it doesn't matter. You've either got to have faith in something supernatural, or realise that there probably is no meaning or at least anything we can understand. I'm right there with you.

You'll always have the doubt that you're wrong though.

For me, these two realisations spells out hedonism.

It doesn't change my life in any particular way. Think about it. Why shouldn't I go on an egoistical rampage for example? After all it doesn't really matter? But that's not what I've been taught. I can possibly understand at some level that my actions have no real meaningful consequences, but I can't disentangle myself from the illusion that is 'me'. I cannot not like music for example. It's impossible.

My realisation tells me that any reason behind any action or non-action is totally arbitrary and meaningless. However, I can't place myself outside of my mind and ignore the reason, the feeling or whatever (again, I can't decide not to like music for example). It gives me an answer (or a non-answer) to why, but not to how. How is just a consequence of what is.

Actually, if I just let go, and try to live right here right now, I get so engulfed in life that I forget about everything else. It's like watching some bad tv series. At some level I know it's just a bad tv series, but somehow I forget that and get drawn into the action. Too bad it's more 'Everybody loves Raymond' than 'Buffy' though :smile:

I also used to be the shy wallflower (and when the illusion of life is too great I sometimes still am), but there is no reason to be like this. You know that. You'll enjoy life much more if you just let it go. Not that there is any reason to enjoy life more. It's probably just as pointless as anything else, but there's always the doubt :smile:

There is no 'I', there are no difficult decisions. There are just competing arbitrary meaningless ideas that are influencing 'you'. Live right here right now, understand why you do what you do, but don't contemplate how.

For a jolly nihilist, check out the page of Elisha Shapiro:

http://nihilists.net/morenihilism.html

The 'Vote nihilism' and 'Nihilist olympics' parts are especially hilarious :smile:


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2326047 - 02/12/04 10:18 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Dude, chill.

The only way to know everything is to die. So just learn what you can and don't worry about knowing everything all at once. Let yourself digest what you know now.




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



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Offlinepeleg
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: Learyfan]
    #2326085 - 02/12/04 10:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

part of growing is accepting that were not perfect but by faith in a Higher Calling i choose to call God that all things will work them selfs out if and when we completly surrender our wills and lifes to the Creator, jus my two cents worth


--------------------
"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....


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OfflinePeyoteZen
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2326861 - 02/12/04 02:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i was just listening to McKenna, and he said something interesting
paraphrasesd, but here goes...
"why should you be worried? We dont know enough to be worried", or something to the effect.

I remain pretty chill through all this. The heavy fog of confusion in my mind makes me look sad to other people, or as if i am regretting being with the people i am surrounded with at the time.


But anyway, thanks for the positive replys. This summer should be looking up. I have enough money to finally afford a car. Independence through mobilitiy is definitely a good thing. All my friends live miles away. And next fall, i will be up in chill ass, hippy liberal college town, finding myself and living it up.

peace


--------------------
ISLAMIC MIGRANT CRIME WAVE COMING TO A GRANNSKAP NEAR YOU!


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2326925 - 02/12/04 03:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Dude, I completely understand everything you're saying, and I am living it too- exactly as you described. Like you said, I believe that this is part of the transition into adulthood, but I also think that the majority of people don't face adulthood, and sort of just transition their same childish behavior into what they conceive an adult to be, so the people that actually do think about all these things appear as if they are the scattered ones.

I believe time will heal all the desperation and uncertainty, and I think it will pay off later when we're older. We'll be the ones happy with ourselves when we're 50 because we took the time to contemplate the deeper issues of life when we were younger.

So my humble summation: if you're questioning everything about yourself and the world, you're on the right track to peace.


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OfflineOfthEarth
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2327218 - 02/12/04 04:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You will go far in your very own "novel' way! As TM might have said. You are the Superman of "thus spoke Zaratharusta' The young arqetect of great and grand buildings as ayn rand could put it. You already speak with the hidden presence of the universal schema within you 'Nam Myoho Renge Kyo' experiance the bliss of just being now! Chi Sat Om


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2327283 - 02/12/04 04:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I get the exact same feeling at times (21 now, had that feeling more when I was 18). I can wake up in the morning and think about why we think all day some days. Sometimes I walk by some spot featuring nature in all its beauty, and I'll be entirely captured and absorbed. Generally, I reckon a lot of people would say I'm depressed if they knew everything that goes on in my mind, but somehow I don't feel like I am. Strange, but true.

One thing I can tell you: sometimes it's better to do something without thinking (especially what you have to do to get by) than thinking all the time. When I think about the consequences of every action I take, I'll weigh the pros and cons so long I'm lockjammed. I can marvel at every aspect of life, and it is often counterproductive, so doing something without hesitating can be greatly beneficial.

As said by others, it's great to be questioning everything you do, but make sure it doesn't stop you from making any progress. Don't let it destroy the goals you have. What I myself try to do is live in the moment as much as I can, to decrease the delay between thinking of what I have to do and doing it every now and then, and think of the world as my personal playground.
Ultimately, nothing really matters. Anyone can see. Nothing really matters, to me :smile:


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineUKBeatnik
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2327318 - 02/12/04 04:38 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i know what your talking about.

the only way i have become happy is to embrace your nihilistic desires , stop fighting what your really are.

you will be happy, i am , i calculate every penny i spend , everything i say to people , i have even chosen my friends based on thier looks :-) .

i get my buzzes from being the best, i play alot of sports and work out alot.to be happy i have to be winning , but loosing just makes me want to win even more , win win situation!

try getting into a competitative hobby where you can unleash all your cold desires!!.


--------------------
Are you rightious?, Kind? Does your confidence lie in this?, Are you beloved by all?
Know that I was, too. Do you imagine your suffering will be any less because you loved goodness and truth?


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OfflinePeyoteZen
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: UKBeatnik]
    #2327438 - 02/12/04 05:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

UKBeatnik said:

try getting into a competitative hobby where you can unleash all your cold desires!!.




hehe, man i hate competition.  My whole life has consisted of people wanting to compete with me.  I'd rather cooperate and build...this is the new age.
But to each his own


Quote:

Alan Stone said:
Generally, I reckon a lot of people would say I'm depressed if they knew everything that goes on in my mind, but somehow I don't feel like I am. Strange, but true.






yep.  Thats me all right.  People come up to me and say "hey, whats the matter? whats wrong?".  I guess i have a sad look on my face.  Its actually just me thinking really hard.

I am beginning to think some of my issues stem from an interest in politics.  I examine political systems, capitalism, communism, and what not.  Everyday i think about the industrial revolution, and the assembly line style of american life.  Its all very depressing.  Maybe i need to stop thinking about politics.  Not entirely, but enough to keep a healthy balance.

And i'm tired of being negative.  I used to cus and rant about how much George Bush and the rest of these cocksucker conservatives are fucking everything up, but now i am beginning to feel sorry for him.  He is a lost, confused little boy, who never really got a chance to experience anything "real".  So he attempts to "understand" things, by skipping along on a shallow, surface level, sea of retoric and barbarian logic.

meh, i suppose this fucked up political paradigm will eventually fall.  (if history has taught me anything about human nature).  So why occupy my thoughts with such negativity
:cool:

i'm outro
peace


--------------------
ISLAMIC MIGRANT CRIME WAVE COMING TO A GRANNSKAP NEAR YOU!


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2327589 - 02/12/04 05:48 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The fact you are asking for help means you are not nihilistic.

Perhaps you are going through a transformation period; detached but not seperate...and that is why you believe you feel unconnected with people.

Dont resist! Smile and become what you are! And try not to compare your lives with others; be happy because you are the best person you have become. I believe I may have expirenced what you are going through (ever since I was 12, as a matter of fact); I am now 19 and I have learned to embrace life with a big ass smile.

Oh yes. Dont worry about depressing, negative things for they illusory (easier said than done, I know). It is not important to concern yourself with miserable energies that some things radiate but it is good to understand them and realize its nature. Be confident in your actions and transcend your own doubts. I think you'll be ok :smile:

Peace


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (02/12/04 05:55 PM)


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2329942 - 02/13/04 11:21 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Are you trying to make sense of something?

From my experience, this has caused me a lot of anguish. Thinking if I can analyze something enough than I will somehow solve the problem like a math equation and then it will be okay. Looking back I can not recall one instance when analyzing a problem has done anything but make it worse. And I'm not talking about practical problems like "How am I goig to afford rent this month?"... Those problems are definately good to analyze as much as possible... But I'm talking about the BIG questions that your troubling yourself with...

"What does it all mean?"
"What am I supposed to be doing, feeling, and saying?"
"How does this action affect my life in the grand scheme of things?"
"Is this action contributing to the greater good or the greater evil?"
"Is thinking this way being egotistical?"

Personally I don't think habitually asking yourself these questions is going to do anything but give you a huge headache. Do you really think your going to figure that stuff out?

Do you feel 'bad' when you make a value judgement about something or someone?
Do you feel 'bad' for wanting something?
Do you feel the need to be perfect in every way? Think about this... are you afraid to step on someone elses toes, or make a mistake?

If you're anything like me, than you see all these open doors around you, yet you just can't let go of the puzzle you've made for yourself. Sometimes you'll venture into one direction, but you'll always come running back, afraid you've left the puzzle unattended for too long.

I'll tell you one thing: something close to you has got to give, and you have to trust yourself to let go of it. And it's not gonna be as simple as just dropping it like a weight, you're going to have to put that choice into motion on a regular basis.

I don't really feel like going into this any deeper on the board, but if you want to PM or IM me I'd be glad to talk, Peace.


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OfflineUKBeatnik
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2330024 - 02/13/04 11:39 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i suppose you not truely nihilistic then , your a nice guy i can tell!,just a bit confused.

i am of the opinion that humanity is programed to do whatever is best for ones self , even co operation is just a form of gettin what you want.

but you will be alright man , trust me.you can do anything you want , the world is at your feet!

have you ever thought about going travelling?,that helps many people find themselves.my father travelled the world twice ,then he found my mother :smile: .

if you like co operation and stuff get into politics , you said you think about it ,theres many groups you can join , esp socialist ones at uni's ,abundent for some reason!.


--------------------
Are you rightious?, Kind? Does your confidence lie in this?, Are you beloved by all?
Know that I was, too. Do you imagine your suffering will be any less because you loved goodness and truth?


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2330126 - 02/13/04 12:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

whenever I get really depressed I always think of Marvin the Paranoid Android from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Even if I'm in the blackest of moods that shit cheers me up.

I guess it makes me realize how stup id that attitude is.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #2330598 - 02/13/04 01:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Man, you sound EXACTLY like I did at your age. Reading that was like finding an old journal of mine from High-school.

I didn't get over it until I was 24 years old, but i'm fine now.


--------------------


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2330648 - 02/13/04 01:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

meaning is what you make it, the only compass you have to navigate this whacky world is your own mind and emotions, who cares if there just chemical interactions? dont try and find a holy god or a holy cause or a holy meaning, just follow your own internal senses. When your senses tell you something is beutifull or pleasing than thats all that matters.

The world is full of infinite experiences , just decide which ones you want to have well your here on earth and make it happen! sure the world is pointless, but that doesnt mean we cant blaze and feast and make sweeet gushy love and go skydiving or scubadiving or be the first person to fuck a dolphin.

Just say i want to try it! live viscerally, and dont second guess yourself. When something fucks up, think about how you can make it better. You cant? THen fuck it and laugh it off!

for example: i spent 2 hours this morning studying for a big world issues test i have today. It took a long time but i memorized every part of the outline and felt like i was ready to ace it. THen i went to catch my bus and had no busfare, and no change. No one was home to lend it to me, and there was none in the house. I missed my bus and got zero on my test.

But FUCK IT! it doesnt matter! its a joke! and life rolls on

also essential
kotton mouth kings : rest of my life and Dog's life
bob marley: dont worry be happy
Sublime: ive seen better days and what i got
cats that purr and sleep by fire places
marijuana
sunshine and good weather
thinking about how inconcievably and undeservedly lucky you are to have food to eat, family , health and freedom
:spliff:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2330678 - 02/13/04 02:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Pharmakos, talk to your teacher about making the test up.

Once, I was studying for a final, during the morning of the big test, which was to come at 1:30 that afternoon. I had missed a class during the middle of the semester, but the classes were on tape, so I went to the library, borrowed the tape, was listening to it, only to hear the teacher say that the exam was moved to 10:00 a.m. on the day of the test.

I panicked and went to the department where his office was located. He let me take the test, but he picked two topics for me to write essay answers for, whereas the class was allowed to pick and respond to one topic.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: Help...i'm on a downward Nihilistic spiral [Re: Frog]
    #2330709 - 02/13/04 02:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

normally i would, this teacher is one of the most awesome people ive ever met , but hes already done way too much to help me out when i fuck up, and also this is a friday, before a week off school, so i wont have a chance to make it up anyways :frown:


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