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 infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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 What If 
#2325539 - 02/11/04 08:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bush loses the popular vote, but wins the electoral vote?
there is a distinct possibility that this could happen again.
if the will of the people is ignored for the second straight election,
what does it say about our system?
what is the purpose of the electoral college?
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trendal
tangential derivation
 
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,635
Loc: Ontario, Canada 
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what is the purpose of the electoral college?
As far as I can tell...it's to overcome the popular vote to create "rigged" elections "legally" 
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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 Re: What If [Re: trendal]
#2325587 - 02/11/04 08:51 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Actually, the electoral college was made so that small states could have the same voting power as heavily populated states. Good thing for the Republicans, since the major population centers tend to be more liberal.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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trendal
tangential derivation
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,635
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Ok, sounds about right.
Sorry, I'm Canadian
Here, all we have is a "popular vote". And none of that silly election-machine voting. No dimpled "chads" to worry about - each voter gets a peice of paper with a circle beside each candidate's name. You put a check or X mark, with the supplied pencil, in the circle you want and drop the paper in the ballot box. All ballots are counted at each election site at the close of the election and results are phoned into the election center. The ballots are then placed in sealed envelopes and sent to the voting office to be stored as hardcopy. I know all this because I was a Ballot Clerk in the last provincial election and helped count the ballots
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Anonymous
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it's like the world series. it's not about who gets the most runs, its about who wins the most games. 
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 SpecialEd
+ one
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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As my history teacher showed me, it was designed to throw the popular vote.
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"Plus one upvote +1..."
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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 Re: What If [Re: trendal]
#2325702 - 02/12/04 02:40 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said:
Here, all we have is a "popular vote". And none of that silly election-machine voting. No dimpled "chads" to worry about - each voter gets a peice of paper with a circle beside each candidate's name. You put a check or X mark, with the supplied pencil, in the circle you want and drop the paper in the ballot box. All ballots are counted at each election site at the close of the election and results are phoned into the election center. The ballots are then placed in sealed envelopes and sent to the voting office to be stored as hardcopy. I know all this because I was a Ballot Clerk in the last provincial election and helped count the ballots
Hehehe...Silly backwards Canadians with their common sense elections.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,239
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
silversoul7 said:
Actually, the electoral college was made so that small states could have the same voting power as heavily populated states.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,239
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
SpecialEd said:
As my history teacher showed me, it was designed to throw the popular vote.
Your history teacher is an idiot.
How old are you?
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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thescientist
Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 804
Loc: Dade County
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canadians dont have terribly common sense elections.
were desparetly in need of proportional representation
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 16 days, 3 hours
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Out of interest why should small states have the same power as larger states? That seems illogical to me.
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Always Smi2le
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Clean
the lense
Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
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this could very well happen if more people are illegally purged from the voter rolls like in 2000.
electoral college electoral schmollege. all you need is a brother who is the governor of one of the most divided states to get his Katherine Harris to batantly DENY 50 thousand people (who would obviously vote for the non-bush candidate) the right to vote and there you have your rigged election.
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trendal
tangential derivation
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,635
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: What If [Re: GazzBut]
#2325977 - 02/12/04 08:58 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Out of interest why should small states have the same power as larger states? That seems illogical to me.
I'm wondering the same thing...
Isn't "democracy" all about numbers?
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Loki
fluid druid
Registered: 02/10/04
Posts: 15,474
Loc: Zone ate
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Re: What If [Re: trendal]
#2326109 - 02/12/04 11:09 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Canada seems to have pretty much the same system as England.
Arent they thinking of making this up coming american vote
an electrical voting system?
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: What If [Re: trendal]
#2326409 - 02/12/04 12:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said:
Isn't "democracy" all about numbers?
So? The U.S. was set up as a constitutional republic, a federation of states. The founders were worried that small states and their citizens could have their rights trampled on by larger states or majorities. This is the reason there was system (now larger trashed) of checks and balances.
Anyways, democracy is highly overrated.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
silversoul7 said:
Actually, the electoral college was made so that small states could have the same voting power as heavily populated states.
Personally, I could care less about the small states, but I suppose I'm a bit biased here, since I live in the most populated state in the country.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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SpecialEd
+ one
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Quote:
Your history teacher is an idiot.
How old are you?
I'm 19, so you don't have to listen to me 
Ummm, if the electoral college is designed to level the playing fields between states...why do bigger states have more electoral votes?
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"Plus one upvote +1..."
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/l_l\/
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 
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Re: What If [Re: trendal]
#2326882 - 02/12/04 02:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said:
Ok, sounds about right.
Sorry, I'm Canadian
Here, all we have is a "popular vote". And none of that silly election-machine voting. No dimpled "chads" to worry about - each voter gets a peice of paper with a circle beside each candidate's name. You put a check or X mark, with the supplied pencil, in the circle you want and drop the paper in the ballot box. All ballots are counted at each election site at the close of the election and results are phoned into the election center. The ballots are then placed in sealed envelopes and sent to the voting office to be stored as hardcopy. I know all this because I was a Ballot Clerk in the last provincial election and helped count the ballots
I didn't know that. Yet one more reason I like Canada!  If Canada can do this, why can't the US?
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trendal
tangential derivation
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,635
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Actually I remember seeing some American news shows after the 2000 election mishap in Florida (dimpled chads? like wtf is that?) where the news anchors were praising our (Canada's) election process for its simplicity.
Also, election officials are paid volunteers from the civillian population. You attend a two our class to learn what your specific job will be and how to do it, and are paid $60 for the class. Then you get paid another $100 for your election-day duties (it's about 12 hours of work...but talk about easy!). Each "booth" consists of one booth clerk and one District Returning Officer, who is just another volunteer who oversees the security of the ballots. Every ballot is signed and handed to the voter by the DRO, and the DRO checks each ballot for his sig before the voter places it in the ballot box. At closing time the DRO for each box counts up the votes for his box and fills out the paperwork for each candidate, while "supervisors" for each candidate watch for accuracy. Then the booth clerk calls in the results. Any site with 2 or more booths also requires a SDRO - senior district returning officer...another civillian volunteer.
I wanted to take part in the process to see exactly how it works behind the scenes. I was pretty impressed, and couldn't find any way (and I was looking) that someone could rig an election here. I'm sure it is possible...but definately not easy.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Actually, the electoral college was made so that small states could have the same voting power as heavily populated states
which basically means that if you live in a state with a large population, you are being underrepresented in the presidential election. this sounds like total BS to me. the smaller states are already overrepresented in congress (I have no problem with that), but why should they have a bigger say in who gets to be president? in a national election, every vote should count equally.
fuck the electoral college 
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