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Anonymous
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: MrGrib]
#2319687 - 02/09/04 09:31 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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Anonymous
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: NiamhNyx]
#2319696 - 02/09/04 09:35 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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MrGrib
Stranger
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: ]
#2319722 - 02/09/04 09:45 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm thinking, but I can't think of anything in the situation that we are proposing that I would need to protect myself from, let alone need to create a government to do the protecting. Governments are self-interested, self-perpetuating, and self-empowering--hardly something I would want to keep around if I am going to live in harmony with the environment.
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Frog
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: ]
#2319733 - 02/09/04 09:48 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am one of the fortunate ones. I don't notice anything going on in the world except for what I'm doing. My world is pretty small. I think I like it this way, because there are a lot of bad people in the world, I am finding.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Anonymous
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: MrGrib]
#2319741 - 02/09/04 09:52 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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MrGrib
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: ]
#2319980 - 02/09/04 11:02 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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You are missing our point. We are not talking about communes within a society with government. We are talking about social communities WITHOUT GOVERNMENT. We are talking about social change, not social isolation.
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JameZTheNewbie
The Mahatma OfZalu
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: NiamhNyx]
#2320620 - 02/10/04 05:42 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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it is knowledge that has led us to be civilized. The knowledge of our world. with effort and thoughtful and honest consideration civilization could be saved. but i believe in socialism i believe that no man should be told by someone what to do but rather as a society decide in a constant state of flux what is right and what is wrong. Authority is the true enemy. when man has power over others the natural tendency is to abuse this p ower. Civilization is in essence what makes us human. it can be accomplished through anarchy or libertarian socialism. What as a species can we suspect to accomplish if we do not work together. People miss understand that anarchist believe that the world should have no order. That we should run around with ak 47 and take what we want when we want from who we want. And that is the image that the current regime would have normal people think. But in reality. It is a perfect democracy based on the simple notion that no man has the right to be declared superior whether it be to run the entire country or to be my boss at work. It is the collection of people as a wholes job to decide everything but still understand that individual liberties exist. A natural order then is created.
-------------------- Mice have feelings
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Frog
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: JameZTheNewbie]
#2320693 - 02/10/04 07:55 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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LPA!
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Anonymous
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: MrGrib]
#2321412 - 02/10/04 02:02 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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Strumpling
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: ]
#2321635 - 02/10/04 03:05 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Osama may have been very productive
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
Registered: 07/05/03
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: Strumpling]
#2321649 - 02/10/04 03:10 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Osama? Depends on the perspective...I say he was (is) a destructive son-of-a-bitch who should be taught the error of his ways by means of hellish torture...then shot.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: Viaggio]
#2321704 - 02/10/04 03:27 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Osama? He drives my taxi pretty damn well, how is he destru......ohhh You mean the Bin Laden dude.
nvmnd, kthx.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: JameZTheNewbie]
#2321807 - 02/10/04 07:35 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JameZTheNewbie said: it is knowledge that has led us to be civilized. The knowledge of our world. with effort and thoughtful and honest consideration civilization could be saved. but i believe in socialism i believe that no man should be told by someone what to do but rather as a society decide in a constant state of flux what is right and what is wrong. Authority is the true enemy. when man has power over others the natural tendency is to abuse this p ower. Civilization is in essence what makes us human. it can be accomplished through anarchy or libertarian socialism. What as a species can we suspect to accomplish if we do not work together. People miss understand that anarchist believe that the world should have no order. That we should run around with ak 47 and take what we want when we want from who we want. And that is the image that the current regime would have normal people think. But in reality. It is a perfect democracy based on the simple notion that no man has the right to be declared superior whether it be to run the entire country or to be my boss at work. It is the collection of people as a wholes job to decide everything but still understand that individual liberties exist. A natural order then is created.
Civilization is *not* what makes us human. How could it be when there were humans for tens of thousands of years before civilization ever reached its infancy? Authority is a requisite part of civilization but it isn't the sole problem. I am no libertarian socialist. We must look beyond the left, beyond traditional political roles in general if we wish to form a sufficient critique. Syndicalism isn't enough.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
Registered: 07/05/03
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: NiamhNyx]
#2321846 - 02/10/04 07:46 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think humans truely value the sense of security that civilization brings. In my opinion, anyone who contributes to sustenance of civilization is being a productive member of society.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: NiamhNyx]
#2321850 - 02/10/04 07:47 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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I want to make it clear that I am no escapist. As enjoyable as it would be to retreat to the forest with a small tribe right now, I can't. I can't just leave the work that needs to be done to others. At this point I'm interested in creating a mutually supportive network of likeminded individuals that can start putting in place alternatives. I want to build community. For me at the moment this means producing an anarchist newspaper, I'm at the early stages of it right now, along with my loosely knit "affinity group." I would also be interested in starting a permaculture organic garden with others at which we could grow all of our requisite fruits, vegetables and herbs on. I'd like to start an alternative library, offer free yoga and meditation classes (this is far in the future since I need to brush up seriously myself.), get involved with ecological restoration, open an infocafe serving free coffee/tea/snacks and offering a wide selection of radical literature as well as discussion...
Personally I want to learn primitive survival skills like matchless firebuilding, hunting and gathering skills. I want to learn all about wild edible and medicinal plants. I'd like to be involved with a wider group of people that also knew these things and get out camping for extended periods of time to practice our skills.
I'm not just fantasising. The reality is that we're in for a crash (hello, oil is running out and everything we do requires it.) I'd like to do what I can to keep eco systems functional, teach people alternative lifestyles, and do work to destroy oppressive institutions that currently exist.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: NiamhNyx]
#2321906 - 02/10/04 08:01 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm trying to better understand your perspective, NiahmNyx, so please take no offense by this question. Do you not favor technology and how man has refined many aspects of nature?
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: Viaggio]
#2322230 - 02/10/04 09:09 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Do I not favour technology? In other words, do I not like it?
Technology is a distraction. It is also a tool of oppression. The kinds of technologies we currently have arose and still arise from an isolated, alientated and coercive mindset. The notion that technology naturally arises from an inquisitive mind is flawed as far as I'm concerned. Everything we create is a function of the mindset we have at the moment of creation, that's hard to argue. If i've got a superiority complex I'll likely try and create something that offers me power, correct? Whereas if my mindset views other humans and living beings as utterly equal I'm more likely to create things that support that view. Our mindsets reproduce themselves. Technology, according to my critique is not neutral as is commonly believed because of the mindset and ideology it was created with. The vast majority of our technologies, particularily industrial technologies, require unsustainable over-use of "resources." Most technologies have been and are easily used in an oppressive/repressive manner.
I don't think I understand the second part of your question. How has man refined many aspects of nature? Can you please clarify what you meant by this? I don't quite grasp it, my my best response is that man never refined "Nature" but rather simply contorted, raped and obliterated Her.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: NiamhNyx]
#2322341 - 02/10/04 09:28 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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I see technology as a means to improve quality of life, although, I am not oblivious to what else it's capable of. Then again, technology is capable of nothing...it's all about the individual using and/or producing the technology. It's all about humankind (we're not perfect, we're not eternally peaceful).
Anyway, that might have been slightly off topic. Regarding the confusion with the second part of my question (man refining nature), I have an example...
Stem cell research. Currently, this bio-technology is still in development, but it has a huge reputation as being considered the holy grail of medicine. With current technology, we are learning how to harvest stem cells, stimulate production, and apply them to affected parts of the body (i.e. heart tissue, nervous tissue etc). This science is very complex and sophisticated (meaning I don't know if it would blend with the "raw" style nature life you describe).
Make sense?
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Grav
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: NiamhNyx]
#2322407 - 02/10/04 09:41 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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And what do you do about an army of fundamentalist christains who think your free way of life is godless and evil?
Why are the words 'power of subtlety' ringing in my ears?
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
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Re: Being a productive member of society: [Re: Grav]
#2322427 - 02/10/04 09:46 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Grav, I don't understand what you mean.
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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