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OfflineSpecialEd
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Utopia
    #2319876 - 02/10/04 12:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"Never let anyone tell you Utopia is not possible"

SpecialEd


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Utopia [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319894 - 02/10/04 12:40 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

One man's utopia is another man's hell. Yes, it is possible to make hell on earth, it has been tried many times and the cries and corpses of millions in the twentieth century is a testament to the never ending desire and quest of fallible humans to make utopias.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Utopia [Re: Evolving]
    #2319903 - 02/10/04 12:43 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Man, I thought I had a neat, happy quote there.  Why'd you have do go and do that? :sad:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Utopia [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319906 - 02/10/04 12:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think Utopia is possible. And I agree with what Evolving said, with regard to one man's utopia. Funny how some of the threads are holding the same thought pattern, for me. Is someone trying to tell me something?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Utopia [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319910 - 02/10/04 12:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Because he's poinitng out that you cannot achieve anything like that without lots of suffering.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Utopia [Re: barfightlard]
    #2319917 - 02/10/04 12:46 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Because he's poinitng out that you cannot achieve anything like that without lots of suffering.





See, I don't think that is the case. I think we can all get along. I then get frustrated when I can't get along with family members over trivial matters. I don't know.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Utopia [Re: barfightlard]
    #2319919 - 02/10/04 12:46 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What is "suffering"? Why can't you achieve Utopia without it? Can't you have Utopia even though there is still suffering?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Utopia [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319920 - 02/10/04 12:46 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry, I've had friends and family who have lived through various experiments in utopia - it sort of sours you on the idea after a while.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Utopia [Re: Frog]
    #2319926 - 02/10/04 12:48 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
I think Utopia is possible. And I agree with what Evolving said, with regard to one man's utopia. Funny how some of the threads are holding the same thought pattern, for me. Is someone trying to tell me something?




Sure it's possible, but will probably never happen. Just look how ignorant humans are. And to fix all of our "flaws" to get this Utopia we would have to give up most things that make us human, which wouldn't be fair to those of use who can better control ourselves.

I get that feeling too, it's really wierd. Like early in the day I'll be thinking about something. Then I'll see a post on here about something similar or on TV just say. Makes me wander how much I really know about my life.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


Edited by bellylard (02/10/04 01:08 AM)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Utopia [Re: barfightlard]
    #2319949 - 02/10/04 12:53 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

bellylard: And to fix all of our flaws to get this Utopia we would have to give up most things that make us human, which wouldn't be fair to those of use who can better control ourselves.


What flaws do you have to fix to get this Utopia? What is the Utopia that you are thinking of? What do you think we have to give up to get Utopia?

Bottom line, I think, for now, is...What is Utopia???


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Utopia [Re: Frog]
    #2319958 - 02/10/04 12:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yea, maybe I should have asked what kind of Utopia you guys were talking about. I don't have too much of an idea myself, only parts I guess.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Utopia [Re: barfightlard]
    #2319982 - 02/10/04 01:02 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bellylard said:
And to fix all of our flaws to get this Utopia...



There are few universally agreed upon 'flaws.' What you may consider a flaw, someone else may consider an asset (or just a personality trait) and vise versa.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Utopia [Re: Evolving]
    #2319988 - 02/10/04 01:05 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

There are few universally agreed upon 'flaws.' What you may consider a flaw, someone else may consider an asset (or just a personality trait) and vise versa.




Yes, but virtues can never conflict. I think consensus would be easy to reach about basic virtues, and utopia would be achievable.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Utopia [Re: Evolving]
    #2320010 - 02/10/04 01:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Thats kinda what I mean. I have troulbe explaining myself usually, so..... I don't think we could get rid of these "flaws" because they are part of who we are. Maybe we just need to learn how to balance things.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Utopia [Re: barfightlard]
    #2320032 - 02/10/04 01:19 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm still waiting for someone to define "utopia" so that I don't have to.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Utopia [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2320037 - 02/10/04 01:21 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SpecialEd said:
Yes, but virtues can never conflict.



I think that the same can be said of virtues as can be said of flaws. For example, I tend to think that a man or woman who practices hard work and thrift is exhibiting virtue, there are others who would call such a person greedy and would say that an alcoholic living in a cardboard box and begging for booze money is more virtuous because he's not a capitalist exploiter of wage slaves.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Utopia [Re: Frog]
    #2320051 - 02/10/04 01:25 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

HAHA I said I didn't really have a full picture in my head of a Utopia.

Also im tired, and I think I just realized I'm a moron and I don't think enough sometimes. Kind of like I don't dig deep enogh ito things, I have no idea. I need to get away from this computer.....


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Utopia [Re: barfightlard]
    #2320069 - 02/10/04 01:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"A Utopia is an ideal society in which the social, political, and economic evils afflicting human kind have been wiped out...an idea displayed (attempted more like it) by communist governments."


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Utopia [Re: barfightlard]
    #2320071 - 02/10/04 01:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

FINE!!! I'll do it...

*walks toward dictionary.com, muttering along the way*


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Utopia [Re: Frog]
    #2320079 - 02/10/04 01:37 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

u?to?pi?a    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (y-tp-)
n.

often Utopia An ideally perfect place, especially in its social, political, and moral aspects.
A work of fiction describing a utopia.
An impractical, idealistic scheme for social and political reform.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[New Latin topia, imaginary island in Utopia by Sir Thomas More  : Greek ou, not, no; see aiw- in Indo-European Roots + Greek topos, place.]

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright ? 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


utopia

\U*to"pi*a\, n. [NL., fr. Gr. not + ? a place.] 1. An imaginary island, represented by Sir Thomas More, in a work called Utopia, as enjoying the greatest perfection in politics, laws, and the like. See Utopia, in the Dictionary of Noted Names in Fiction.

2. Hence, any place or state of ideal perfection.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, ? 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


utopia

n 1: a book by Sir Thomas More (1516) describing the perfect society on an imaginary island [syn: Utopia, New Latin Utopia] 2: an imaginary place considered to be perfect or ideal [syn: Utopia, Zion] 3: ideally perfect state; especially in its social and political and moral aspects [ant: dystopia]


Source: WordNet ? 1.6, ? 1997 Princeton University


utopia, TX
  Zip code(s): 78884



Source: U.S. Gazetteer, U.S. Census Bureau


utopia

UTOPIA: in Acronym Finder


Source: Acronym Finder, ? 1988-2003 Mountain Data Systems

Um, based on how the definition reads, am I the only one here who didn't know what "utopia" meant???  :tongue:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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