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OfflineSpecialEd
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The non conformist
    #2319785 - 02/10/04 12:06 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Does the non conformist, in all his efforts to deviate from the norm, end up conforming to a smaller group with more rigorous standards?


Cliches:

An angst driven teen is fed up with her peers and their trends. She spends 25 dollars on bleach and pink dye. After two messy hours, she has pink hair.

A man feels trapped by society. He is tired of working 30 hours a week, so he retreats to the woods. He now spends most of his time trying to survive.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The non conformist [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319814 - 02/10/04 12:19 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Heidegger believed that the conformist self, which he called "Das Man," or "the they," was a more fundamental part of who we are than our individual selves. It is therefore impossible to escape "the they" completely. Modern sociological research seems to confirm that we are indeed naturally conforming creatures, even those of us who consider themselves non-conformists. Real non-conformity comes from within, often in very subtle ways, and is definitely not found in some hair dye/tattoo/piercing/music/subculture/etc.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: The non conformist [Re: silversoul7]
    #2319825 - 02/10/04 12:21 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think you are right. Doing the exact opposite of what people want you to do gives them the same control as doing what they want you to do.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: The non conformist [Re: silversoul7]
    #2319831 - 02/10/04 12:25 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Real non-conformity comes from within, often in very subtle ways...
Yup.  :thumbup:

I think the "conformity problem" is absolutely linked to the nature of the brain - a pattern recognizing machine.  Patterns make our brains happy in a world of constant flux.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: The non conformist [Re: Sclorch]
    #2319845 - 02/10/04 12:28 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I think the "conformity problem" is absolutely linked to the nature of the brain - a pattern recognizing machine. Patterns make our brains happy in a world of constant flux.




Is it not enought that the brain recognizes patterns? Must it implement them as well?


Something a friend told me:

The people you are around rub off on you. Surround yourself with people you want to be like.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The non conformist [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319878 - 02/10/04 12:35 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The people you are around rub off on you. Surround yourself with people you want to be like.



I surround myself with guys who get more pussy than I do. It doesn't seem to be working.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: The non conformist [Re: silversoul7]
    #2319884 - 02/10/04 12:37 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:

It doesn't work quite like that.  You will merely adopt mannerisms, sayings, and thoughts.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The non conformist [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319893 - 02/10/04 12:40 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a "conformist", in a sense. I need rules and guidelines.

But I'm a "noncomformist" in the sense that I live my life in a way that makes people shake their heads. I do what I want.

Can you have it both ways?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: The non conformist [Re: Frog]
    #2319909 - 02/10/04 12:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Can you have it both ways? 




I guess the way to win is by doing things for yourself and for your own reasons.  Not to conform or nonconform.  It sounds like you are doing just that :thumbup:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The non conformist [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319923 - 02/10/04 12:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I used to be a nonconformist

but now I'm a sleeper agent


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The non conformist [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319937 - 02/10/04 12:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think the secret is to take the societal conventions you agree with and make them your own, then throw out what you don't like and change it to something you do like.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The non conformist [Re: Sclorch]
    #2319940 - 02/10/04 12:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
I think the "conformity problem" is absolutely linked to the nature of the brain - a pattern recognizing machine. Patterns make our brains happy in a world of constant flux.




What do you mean by that?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: The non conformist [Re: Frog]
    #2319948 - 02/10/04 12:53 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

People have a psychological need for things that are familiar to them. It gives them security in a time of turmoil.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The non conformist [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319956 - 02/10/04 12:55 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Are you explaining what Sclorch said, or are you responding to something else?  (Trying to keep things in context, here.  :smile:)


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: The non conformist [Re: Frog]
    #2319969 - 02/10/04 12:58 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yes.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The non conformist [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2319974 - 02/10/04 01:00 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: The non conformist [Re: Frog]
    #2320014 - 02/10/04 01:12 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I was explaining what Schlorch said.

BTW, don't you hate it when someone does that?  You ask "A or B."  And they try to say "yeah." :lol:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The non conformist [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2320026 - 02/10/04 01:16 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I do.  I was about to kick you in the nuts, but you covered yourself nicely.  :grin:

At least you gave DoctorJ a nice laugh. 


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Edited by Frog (02/10/04 01:17 AM)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: The non conformist [Re: Frog]
    #2320040 - 02/10/04 01:22 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Sclorch: I think the "conformity problem" is absolutely linked to the nature of the brain - a pattern recognizing machine. Patterns make our brains happy in a world of constant flux.
Frog: What do you mean by that?

Okay, I'll be a nice guy and explain... but know that you're getting off easy. :wink:

I suppose I was alluding to comfort with uncertainty (it's constantly on my mind, I know) and the free will vs. determinism debate.  Just because there are patterns, it does not necessarily follow that there is a Grand Pattern to the universe.  I think it's conspicuously convenient and a bit egocentric for pattern-recognizing machines to declare or assume that a Grand Pattern exists.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The non conformist [Re: Sclorch]
    #2320061 - 02/10/04 01:28 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
Sclorch: I think the "conformity problem" is absolutely linked to the nature of the brain - a pattern recognizing machine. Patterns make our brains happy in a world of constant flux.
Frog: What do you mean by that?

Okay, I'll be a nice guy and explain... but know that you're getting off easy. :wink:

I suppose I was alluding to comfort with uncertainty (it's constantly on my mind, I know) and the free will vs. determinism debate.  Just because there are patterns, it does not necessarily follow that there is a Grand Pattern to the universe.  I think it's conspicuously convenient and a bit egocentric for pattern-recognizing machines to declare or assume that a Grand Pattern exists.




How am I getting off easy???  :emoticon scratching head:

Anyways, I don't necessarily think that there are patterns to the Universe.  I think that the Universe is ultimately "explainable", but I don't know how "patterns" play into that. 

I like looking for patterns in my life.  The patterns I have looked at are how God is taking care of me.  Signs.  But I don't think patterns govern the Universe, although patterns definitely exist in the Universe.  But those patterns don't necessarily show how the Universe is governed.  Well, maybe they do. 

Shoot, sorry.  I'm not purposely trying to be mushy in my thinking, but I'm reading that book, "The Field", and the studies that the author cites, performed by different physicists and scientists, show patterns that teach us how different parts of the Universe "work". 

But that doesn't necessarily mean that the Universe is governed by patterns, does it?  Or does it?  :confused:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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