Home | Community | Message Board


RVF Garden Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Gov't is okay by me...
    #2319742 - 02/09/04 11:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think many people fail to recognize government's role and importance. It seems like many portray it as a vague, tax collecting, military entity. But it is so much more than this. And it is not separate from us either. It is an extension of our interests. We are the gov't, and that is no delusion.

I am proud of what my taxes fund. Education grants, programs for the needy or abused, programs to protect nature (and its resources), defense from hostile people, and the NIH are just a few...

Sigh, maybe I stand alone on this.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Viaggio]
    #2319756 - 02/09/04 11:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I like government because I want things to be organized, taken care of, etc. But I also realize that there is such a thing as "too much" government.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Viaggio]
    #2319764 - 02/10/04 12:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The goverment which governs best is the one that governs least.


Our government is way too big and it has it's hand in way too many things that it should not. I believe that private organizations could do everything the government does, only better.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Viaggio]
    #2319817 - 02/10/04 12:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The funny thing about our government is. Is that it is made of a VAST array of different processes, so large, i think, that really limit its effectiveness towards change. We are seeing this now, with SO many issues confronting the US. Not only cause its such a "large" country, but that it is so diverse.

People make up the government, and it is up to them to get up and make what they think is important an issue. Although i think the government itself hasnt really thought about changing the way people interact with government. If i wanted to see one thing about people and the government, is see them get more involved, and actually start talking about these thigns openly.

Too much fighting, too much opposition with different sections of the government, the US is just overriden with this "crap".

I think the government doesnt have to be like a war lord or anything, just like a very efficient organizing system, with a little bit of personality to give it some character. And a character that isnt what it is now, the politician. I really dont like any of the politicians, they dont seem like they are really looking to make a great change with things.

*shrugs*

People need to realize that power does rest in their hands, and that it is up to the individuals to respond to the government in order for it to change. How do you get people to care? Heh, thats a very trickey question.


--------------------
What?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Viaggio]
    #2319863 - 02/10/04 12:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think many people fail to realize that just about anything the government does can be done less expensively and more efficiently via other means. If something is worth doing, it will be done even without a government.

We must remember that whenever we look to government to accomplish something we are in essence asking that force or the threat of force will be used against our fellow human beings. I would like to see us (as a species) evolve to where we use reason and persuasion instead of force to get each other to cooperate towards accomplishing the things we desire. As a person who struggles to live a moral life, I recognize that the means must be subject to the same principles as the ends.

George Washington said something about government that I think is important to keep in mind, "Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrGrib
Stranger

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 181
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Viaggio]
    #2319941 - 02/10/04 12:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I feel that you are still missing the point. The things you say our taxes fund, why are these things necessarily necessary?

Education grants. We are educating ourselves into extinction. We have created a complex society where you need a minimum high school or college degree just to survive and provide for your family, and we are using this education to make society even more complex, and create even more problems to which we now need more solutions. WTF? I feel that our priorities are out of order, and that we are failing to educate ourselves where we need to be educated.

Programs for the needy and abused. The only reason there are needy people in the first place is because of the imbalance of resources and opportunity provided to certain groups. These are inequalities that our current society has created and fostered as a result of prejudice, bias, indifference, and self-interest.

Programs to protect nature. We wouldn't need programs like this if corporations were not given the legal ability to over-exploit these resources in the first place.

Defense from hostile people. If we were not so self-interested as a society and made a better effort to peacefully co-exist without being expansionists, maybe there would not be so many groups pissed off at us in the first place.

NIH. Maybe if we stopped creating health hazards for ourselves by over-exploting and over-indulging, we would not have so many health problems that seem to be rampant today.

So in my opinion, this society has created these problems. And you want to make a government responsible for addressing these problems? I say skip the middleman and change society so that the problems do not exist, rather than allowing society to remain status quo and then being at the mercy of a government to clean up after society's mess. Adding government to the equation opens up a whole new can of worms anyway.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: MrGrib]
    #2319964 - 02/10/04 12:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MrGrib said:
And you want to make a government responsible for addressing these problems? I say skip the middleman and change society so that the problems do not exist, rather than allowing society to remain status quo and then being at the mercy of a government to clean up after society's mess. Adding government to the equation opens up a whole new can of worms anyway.




That's where we have too much government.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Frog]
    #2320085 - 02/10/04 01:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The government is a part of us, of society.  We are not static, and neither is our government...

BTW, I'm pretty stoned right now  :stoned:


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Viaggio]
    #2320112 - 02/10/04 01:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

That's okay. I've had a wine infusion. Oh, and question: Is meth contraindicated for heroin use???


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrGrib
Stranger

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 181
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Frog]
    #2320134 - 02/10/04 01:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm, yes, I would contraindicate meth as treatment for heroin use.  :syringe:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 64,437
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Viaggio]
    #2320188 - 02/10/04 02:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

While I often claim to despise many aspects of the government, I realize that it is but a manifestation of our collective unconsciousness, that reflects our desire for order and 3rd dimensional things.. an artificial structure we erected in which to help chart and navigate this thing called reality. As we change as a society, government will follow, because it is dependent on people to exist. I just think the current 'government', needs a little updating, or.. a lot.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2320196 - 02/10/04 02:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I so fucking agree with you, shroomism. Couldn't have put it better myself.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinebarfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2320208 - 02/10/04 02:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yea it definatly does.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 64,437
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: barfightlard]
    #2320230 - 02/10/04 02:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think the areas our governments could begin to make improvements are:

1. Promote World Unity, Peace, Diversity, Acceptance, Love
2. Eradicate all "borders"
3. Decriminalize victimless "crimes" aka The War on Drugs.. I mean people
4. Implement alternative energy sources and supply - aka down with the oil industry
5. Complete restructure of the way the government operates - put the decisions in the hands of the people
6. Stop this "war" nonsense
7. dali llama for president in 2004

That would be a start... of course we would have to completely rehaul just about every form of government, church, military, etc.. but I think a good start would be that everyone is a citizen of Earth, not a country, that we are all humans, and that free will is a universal right and is to be respected and upheld. Meaning your free will extends as far as you like so long as it does not begin to interfere with the free will of others. Erm, yeah.. so we need nothing short of a revolution. VOlunteers?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePrincessMaumbie
Stranger

Registered: 02/10/04
Posts: 5
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: MrGrib]
    #2320257 - 02/10/04 02:36 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Meth vs. Heroin- I have whitnessed heroin addcits doing meth, and talk about how they never want to do heroin again,just as they do when they are sick,but when the meth wears off and you cant sleep the needle is always where they turn. I spent many sleepless nights so joyous that my loved ones never wanted to do heroin again to only be dissapointed a few days later. I think, first of all,you have to want to quit. bottom line. You have to want it more than anything in the world usually because you have hit rock bottom and looked around and realized you've really fucked up your life, and then i suggest detox center,thats what helped my friends. well, that and relapsing and almost dying because of tolerance drop, and NA and family and friend support. *sigh* thats my advice. A lot of counsling,not neccesarily a professional just people that you can talk to about it. man, 2 years ago i would have never been preaching about quitting drugs,of any sort really. life is weird. all the lessons we learn...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: PrincessMaumbie]
    #2320630 - 02/10/04 08:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Those suggestions are beautiful, Shroomism. But in my opinion, they seem unrealistic.
Quote:

MrGrib said:
You are missing our point...We are talking about social change, not social isolation.



What kind of social change are you recommending? I can only see socialism (or the like) working if we all thought the same...sigh, not gonna happen.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,275
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 6 months, 9 days
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2321193 - 02/10/04 03:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

but I think a good start would be that everyone is a citizen of Earth, not a country, that we are all humans, and that free will is a universal right and is to be respected and upheld. Meaning your free will extends as far as you like so long as it does not begin to interfere with the free will of others.




That's what i've been saying to people since the last 15 years. I completely agree with you Shroomism !


Quote:

Erm, yeah.. so we need nothing short of a revolution. VOlunteers?




I raise my hand !!!

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 13 days, 9 hours
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2324567 - 02/11/04 04:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The only revolution that is going to change anything is a revolution from within.. which I'm guessing is what you are talking about. Spreading ideas, right?

The more people that change the way they perceive the world and end up living more consciously, the more people who are instilled with these ideas that promote life and evolution, the more the possibillity for change opens up. We're dealing with a majority here... a majority that would have to have a radical change in the way they think and the way they live.

Which is why it is so important to do one's part towards that... obviously no one is asking anyone to give up their dreams and their position in life to go out and hand pamplets out on the street while dressed like a globe or something. Its about living by example, spreading those ideas through contact with people that you encounter... if the change comes about in one person, the more likely it is for the change to come about in five more people.

The least someone could do is learn to live in a positive manner, full of energy and fully appreciating life... even if it is just for yourself, that vibe will spread.

We only have governments because we are incapable of governing ourselves (remember, majority). If no one was committing crimes, there would be no need for any huge law system (sorry, Frog. :wink: we could always get you a job wearing one of those globes, passing out flyers... :lol:). All the energy that is being put into a system of governing and controlling would be free to be put into unity, peace, evolution.

No one is going to change the world on their own. Its a group effort. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGrav
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2324750 - 02/11/04 05:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Before you point your finger you should know that I'm the man.
If I'm the man and your the man, than he's the man as well
So you can point that fucking finger up your ass.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Gov't is okay by me... [Re: Grav]
    #2324794 - 02/11/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"We only have governments because we are incapable of governing ourselves..."
Well put, fireworks god. And, Grav...that makes total sense (no sarcasm).


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Why Do Some Dislike Firearms?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
daimyo 2,638 70 03/19/06 05:57 AM
by BlueCoyote
* gov't and higher powers Atomisk 632 6 02/20/04 08:05 AM
by Atomisk
* My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread)
( 1 2 3 all )
TODAY 3,872 57 05/03/11 01:57 PM
by helix
* Science and Religion - their similarities and their differences
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Poid 4,233 87 02/15/09 01:50 PM
by Recondicom
* Population: exponential growth and the inevitable die off
( 1 2 all )
trendalM 2,218 34 11/02/07 08:06 AM
by 2sky
* Heralding a new age...
( 1 2 3 all )
Adamist 2,944 50 10/13/02 10:04 PM
by johnnyfive
* Heaven is coming to Earth
( 1 2 3 4 ... 20 21 all )
spacedragon 23,767 407 08/29/04 03:05 AM
by spacedragon
* Guns in College
( 1 2 all )
TacticalBongRip 1,453 23 10/29/07 07:26 PM
by Icelander

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
1,669 topic views. 1 members, 4 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
FreeSpores.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.078 seconds spending 0.002 seconds on 16 queries.