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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
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Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate * 1
    #23193057 - 05/05/16 05:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

can i store the sterilized ( pressure cooked ) rye grain jars in a room exposed to light and at room temperature for a week or 2 ? Im unable to  do the grain transfers at the moment and the jars have been sitting in my room for around 4-5 days so far ?  I need to build a glove box asap and get this done. But is it ok if they sit for a little bit uninnoculated ? or will this promote contams , or possibly dry out the grains some how ?


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InvisibleScrimshaw
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Luminous7] * 2
    #23193210 - 05/05/16 06:23 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I personally don't cook the grain until I'm ready to inoculate the next day. People rig up cheap SABs made out of a cardboard box and some plastic wrap. I wouldn't want to use a setup like this, but if it was between a half-assed SAB and 1-2 week old jars, I'll take the SAB.

That being said, properly PC'd jars give you a window of time in which they remain sterile. The longer you wait, the more that window closes, the more the grain drys out, etc. Since you don't currently have an SAB, I'm going to assume didn't use agar to noc up your master. If you're using a syringe, you cant be sure that it's clean to begin with. Combine that with some 1-2 week jars and your chance of failure is definitely greater, but not impossible, especially since if you G2G it should colonize faster. You just need to hope that your master jar is clean too. You have the right idea making an SAB. It's a must in this hobby.

But I have to ask. Why did you PC the grain knowing you didn't have the SAB ready?

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InvisibleLeftfield420
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Luminous7] * 1
    #23193326 - 05/05/16 06:56 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I used a couple jars I had in my fridge for a week and a half or longer.....so far so good...as for jars sitting out I can't say? I'd be iffy on those....

Edited by Leftfield420 (05/05/16 06:58 PM)

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OfflineLuminous7


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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Scrimshaw] * 1
    #23193628 - 05/05/16 08:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Scrimshaw said:
I personally don't cook the grain until I'm ready to inoculate the next day. People rig up cheap SABs made out of a cardboard box and some plastic wrap. I wouldn't want to use a setup like this, but if it was between a half-assed SAB and 1-2 week old jars, I'll take the SAB.

That being said, properly PC'd jars give you a window of time in which they remain sterile. The longer you wait, the more that window closes, the more the grain drys out, etc. Since you don't currently have an SAB, I'm going to assume didn't use agar to noc up your master. If you're using a syringe, you cant be sure that it's clean to begin with. Combine that with some 1-2 week jars and your chance of failure is definitely greater, but not impossible, especially since if you G2G it should colonize faster. You just need to hope that your master jar is clean too. You have the right idea making an SAB. It's a must in this hobby.

But I have to ask. Why did you PC the grain knowing you didn't have the SAB ready?



My SAB broke , the ring cuffs that held the gloves on are broken off. That being said  , its still a box with 2 arm holes in it. could i just sterilize some sleeves and use it with out gloves attached ? Also i was planning on making the new SAB the day after sterilizing and doing the transfer then. But iv been super busy with a million things and didnt get to it.

Would it be a safe bet to say im screwed ? If so i wasted alot of grain :frown:

Im prob going to try them out any way. and my G master is clean,  i just dont want it to go to waste and i wana keep building up my spawn mass.

Its been 4-5 days since the sterilized jars have been sitting at room temp exposed to ambient room lighting.


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Luminous7] * 2
    #23193697 - 05/05/16 08:58 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)



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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Luminous7] * 1
    #23193811 - 05/05/16 09:40 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Luminous7 said:
its still a box with 2 arm holes in it.




So... It is actually a SAB now. Quit fucking with sleeves.

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OfflineLuminous7


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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: GreenRabbit] * 1
    #23194542 - 05/06/16 05:15 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Quote:

Luminous7 said:
its still a box with 2 arm holes in it.




So... It is actually a SAB now. Quit fucking with sleeves.



oh really? damn ok I'll use it. should I just throw on some medical gloves and do the transfer or would.some.kind of sleeve be more.ideal for.my whole arm?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Luminous7] * 2
    #23194544 - 05/06/16 05:18 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I go bare armed. I`d suggest just wearing disposable gloves for now. Read up on SABs more man. I got a sterile procedures tek in my sig that might help you understand sabs a little more.


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OfflineAusMush
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Mad Season] * 1
    #23194553 - 05/06/16 05:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

SAB's are great , having said that I'm itching to get my laminar flow hood lmao , the last auction I missed a good one sold for 300$ :mad2:

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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: AusMush] * 1
    #23194596 - 05/06/16 06:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I have left jars sitting for close to 2 weeks before using and they did fine.

You should keep in mind that bacterial endospores are not completely sterilized during your 0C cycle and the more you wait the greater the risk of bacterial contamination.

I too don't do grains until I need them so I mostly use only freshly sterilised jars.

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OfflineLuminous7


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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Supalemonhaze] * 1
    #23194735 - 05/06/16 07:52 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I always thought you needed attached gloves to the box. ok awesome tha ks.for.the info guys I will do the transfer tonight with my bare arms and latex gloves. I'll spray with alcohol and.bleach solution inside the box and see what happens. jars only been sitting for roughly 5 days so I should be good.im thinking. the jars are looking a tad bit dry tho. but we'll see


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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: GreenRabbit] * 1
    #23195081 - 05/06/16 10:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Quote:

Luminous7 said:
its still a box with 2 arm holes in it.




So... It is actually a SAB now. Quit fucking with sleeves.



w wrong with fuckin wit does sleeves? won't it just give a little extra " insurance" for success in having no contams? is there a down side to have sleeves? what about if your doing agar, would It be.beneficial to h attaches sleeves / gloves on the box??


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Luminous7] * 1
    #23195131 - 05/06/16 10:37 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Luminous7 said:
w wrong with fuckin wit does sleeves? won't it just give a little extra " insurance" for success in having no contams?



No.
Quote:

Luminous7 said:
is there a down side to have sleeves?



Yes.
Quote:

Luminous7 said:
what about if your doing agar, would It be.beneficial to h attaches sleeves / gloves on the box??



No.

Look up piston effect. Due to the size restrictions of an sab, you can expect that air can move easily in it. Moving big objects causes a piston effect, which is why I don't like inoculating bags in a box, and if your box is under 100 qts, even qt jars move too much air.

Using sleeves, and essentially increasing the surface area of your arms moves air a lot. Making the whole STILL AIR concept of a STILL AIR box meaningless.

Everything you do is dependant on keeping the box's air still.

Quote:

Making the still air box (SAB)

This is a picture of my 110 qt clear still air box:

Notice it's wet/condensated inside. That's what it's supposed to look like the whole time you're working with it.

I made it mimicking this video, except I SERIOUSLY recommend you get a 100 qt+ tub.



I took the cut outs of the holes and taped them to make little doors. This is to keep the air still if I'm waiting for things to cool, or if I want a smoke break.

My SAB holes are 6 inches. Honestly this is the MINIMUM diameter. I took incense and lit it in my box (kudos to kizzle for the idea) and found the arm holes moved the most air (smoke) when moving my arms around, and in and out. By increasing the size of the arm holes, and working in a fairly still room with the vents turned off .. I've been finding that moving your arms in and out will cause no air movement. And thus very rare contams.




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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Mad Season] * 1
    #23195152 - 05/06/16 10:42 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Don't make spawn unless you can inoculate it within 24 hours or at most 48.
Never buy pre sterilized spawn
SAB>FH for 99.95% of the people that grow cubes

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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23195944 - 05/06/16 03:07 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I wouldn't say a SAB is better than a hood. I understand that someone who has been using SABs for years might find it uncomfortable but a hood is always an upgrade IMO. I doubt mushroom farms use SABS.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Supalemonhaze] * 1
    #23196038 - 05/06/16 03:35 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Unless you're making hundreds of jars a week a flow hood is just there to make you feel better.

You can make your SAB bigger so you have more freedom of motion

Flow hoods should not be in rooms that are not floor to ceiling cleanable hard surfaces. No carpet. They should be in a room that doesn't get much traffic either.

It requires better sterile technique to use effectively than working in a SAB. You can be a little more careless and less dexterity with a SAB with a flow hood you have to be 100% on your game with techniques since you're dealing with moving air and you cannot sterilize your hands, arms, jar outsides.

They cost too much to make sense for a home cultivator to buy one just to make them think it will make their life magically more easy than the SAB.

You can't work with contaminated petri dishes which is most of the work for amateur mycologists anyway.

They're heavy and you have to let them run before using them. A SAB takes 1 minute to setup and doubles as myco storage when you put it away.

Etc..

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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23196669 - 05/06/16 06:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Well... There go my dreams of ever having a flowhood...

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: GreenRabbit] * 1
    #23196714 - 05/06/16 06:43 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

:godfuckingdammit:

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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23197785 - 05/07/16 02:57 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Unless you're making hundreds of jars a week a flow hood is just there to make you feel better.

You can make your SAB bigger so you have more freedom of motion

Flow hoods should not be in rooms that are not floor to ceiling cleanable hard surfaces. No carpet. They should be in a room that doesn't get much traffic either.

It requires better sterile technique to use effectively than working in a SAB. You can be a little more careless and less dexterity with a SAB with a flow hood you have to be 100% on your game with techniques since you're dealing with moving air and you cannot sterilize your hands, arms, jar outsides.

They cost too much to make sense for a home cultivator to buy one just to make them think it will make their life magically more easy than the SAB.

You can't work with contaminated petri dishes which is most of the work for amateur mycologists anyway.

They're heavy and you have to let them run before using them. A SAB takes 1 minute to setup and doubles as myco storage when you put it away.

Etc..




I kinda disagree with most your points. I had a really hard time with a SAB and everyone was like- no dude, don't buy a hood, it will not fix anything. Finally built it and my fail rate plummeted. I understand that someone who is failing because of his sterile tek will not benefit from a hood but that is not always the case.

I find that keeping your hands away from the back of the jars (between the filter and your work) much easier than keeping them away from the top of the jars in a SAB, after all, all the openings of jars and petris are on top and something will always be there, be it your scalpel, loop, w/e. The hood will blow any contams from your scalpel away from your work if you always work from the front. Sterile tek is not harder, it's just different. If anything the rules of a FH are easier to follow than the rules of a SAB. It's easier to forget to move slowly than forgetting you shouldn't put your hands behind an open jar. I don't see why sterilizing the outside of jars and your gloves are important, the laminar flow will make sure the contaminants on the outside never make it inside and your hand will never be in front of an open jar, it's uncomfortable to do it on purpose let alone by mistake.

Doesn't matter how big a SAB is IMO, the holes will always restrict your movements and you have to move turtle style so you won't move too much air.

A hood does not have to be run prior to using, it helps but it's in no way a requirement. When I only have a couple of plates for transfers I switch it on and start right away, the only waiting time is until I put on my gloves and wipe the tools and table with iso. Done this countless times and I never saw a difference in contam rate. The rooms can most definitely have textiles, Mine has big ass curtains  and a couple of sofas in there as well as a carpet during the winter. RR had even worse conditions and definitely a better success rate than me:

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I've been using the PF model below for over a decade now with 100% success, even though my lab is also a bedroom with carpeting where I sleep with my dog(who rolls in bear and/or cougar scat every time she sees a pile) curled up at the foot of my bed. 




There's also another post where he says a SAB can never rival a FH and this has been confirmed for me when I went through it myself. He also said that he worked in a room with wall to wall carpet infested with black mold spores, he doesn't say what he used while working there so I skipped that one. I doubt RR would let an idea keep him from using a hood though, he would have at least tested it and posted the results if it failed.


Sure, they are heavy but I don't see why someone would want to keep moving it around, once it's in place you have no reason to. I still clean up contaminated plates in front of my hood, I just make sure that if it's mold it hasn't sporulated yet. I have not used a SAB since I started using my hood and by all means, I am an amateur but the bulk of my work is definitely not cleaning up contaminated plates. That may be so for folks in SABs, hell it definitely was for me even though the cleanup usually went worse than the original plate but with a hood it's a whole different story. A hood is much more forgiving IMO. This is why I don't agree that you have to inoculate 100's of jars a week for a FH to be worth having, you might have as much success with a SAB than you would with a hood but it's not the same for everybody. My hood is definitely not only there to make me feel better, if anything, my cultures are the ones that feel better.

I do agree with a couple of your points. That a hood is not cheap and it can't be used as storage but both of these are trivial. There are hobbies that call for much more money than a home built flowhood can ever be. I am not talking about the commercial ones going up to thousands of dollars, that would be just insane for a hobby-ist. For storage, I doubt the few sq feet the hood occupies will be headache for anyone not living in a studio flat. 

Most of the stuff we talked about will differ from person to person, I get that. There will always be someone that can't afford a hood/has a good enough success rate that he feels comfortable using SABs but I don't feel it's accurate to say a SAB is better, a hood is always an upgrade over a SAB. I doubt there is anyone here who bought a hood and then cast it aside preferring to use a SAB for his work. With a hood you will always be faster and more comfortable. Not to mention that for folks using bags, even if they manage to inoculate with sterility, it will be uncomfortable to the point of driving them mad.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Storing sterilized grain until able to inoculate [Re: Supalemonhaze] * 1
    #23198191 - 05/07/16 08:38 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I give a fuck what RR said you really are a tard if you put a FH in a room with carpet.

They do 99.99% at best. They really should be ran at least a half hour to an hour before use too.

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