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MushieMainiac
MycoNovice

Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 290
Loc: Shroomery
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Final Product - Millet Grain Spawn Jars - PICS - How did I do?
#23177267 - 05/01/16 06:00 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Used the ratio method with no soak, rinse or simmer.
I used: 350ml White Millet 225ml Tap Water 1/4Tsp Gypsum
PC'd at 15psi for 90mins
I had so few burst grains at the bottom and I think the few were caused by my PC got really low on water, didn't run out.

How do they look?
I am trying another batch with only 210ml water and PC at 15psi for 60mins.
I'll take pics after that batch is done but I think that will be the money spot.
Oh and I am using a slightly drier grain as I will be using LC.
Thanks for the input guys!
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Quote:
MushieMainiac said: Okay I got what I think is a great final product
I used: 300ml Whole White Millet 175ml Tap Water 1/4tsp Gypsum
PC at 15psi for 60mins


Please let me know what you think.
Note: No grains burst and no clumping at all with this. I found anything over 60mins at 15psi and you get the dreaded 3in chunk at the bottom. These turned out beautiful. No clumps. No excess moisture. Not too full. And I love the fact that there is zero soak and no simmer.
I love the ratio method. I got my original recipe from a user "Starter" he had success for years with it. But given that mine were too full I just adjusted the ratio. Only took 1 try too 
After I have succes with these jars I'll be making a Tek for Ratio Method Millet Jars. At $20-$25 for 50lbs and available at Every feed store. It's a great grain with 1,000s of inoculation points per jar.
Edited by MushieMainiac (05/04/16 09:03 AM)
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borntofli1234
Stranger
Registered: 02/27/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: MushieMainiac]
#23177284 - 05/01/16 06:08 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Too full, cant shake them......
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MushieMainiac
MycoNovice

Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 290
Loc: Shroomery
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: borntofli1234]
#23177363 - 05/01/16 06:34 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I shook them already?? And the grains move around just fine?
As I'm using LC I can shake when I inoculate right? So I don't have to wait till its 20%. Even then though I didn't have issues shaking and moving the grain.
I'll use less grain in the next runs
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy

Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: MushieMainiac]
#23178724 - 05/02/16 02:58 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Millet is a really nice choice for a grain.
The grains at the bottom probably didn't pop because you ran low on water. Because of the physics of state changes, if you have a thermally conductive material like water the temperature will be the same throughout, and it'll stay that temperature until the state change is complete. Ice warms to 0C in a glass of water and stays 0C until it's all melted, and when you boil water at ambient pressure the whole pot stays at 100C until it's all evaporated (and then the vapor can heat up more). It's the same in a PC, just at a higher temperature--something like 115-120C depending on your pressure.
It's probably just from normal cooking in the PC.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: Psilicon]
#23179114 - 05/02/16 07:37 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I had the same, yet a lot more horrific results with millet. Had 3/4 of an inch slab of dense millet at the bottom which would not break no matter how hard I shook. I hated it.
Anyway, you should fill your jars a lot less, 1/4 of the jar max to shake properly. The way they are now you are able to shake them apart but not mix them properly, you will see what I am talking about after inoculation when you go to mix the mycelium around. I see you are putting dry grains and water in the jars instead of cooking, that will take some experimentation on your part to get them to the desired height.
Other than that, they look pretty good for a no-cook tek.
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MushieMainiac
MycoNovice

Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 290
Loc: Shroomery
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23187903 - 05/04/16 08:28 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Okay I got what I think is a great final product
I used: 300ml Whole White Millet 175ml Tap Water 1/4tsp Gypsum
PC at 15psi for 60mins


Please let me know what you think.
Note: No grains burst and no clumping at all with this. I found anything over 60mins at 15psi and you get the dreaded 3in chunk at the bottom. These turned out beautiful. No clumps. No excess moisture. Not too full. And I love the fact that there is zero soak and no simmer.
I love the ratio method. I got my original recipe from a user "Starter" he had success for years with it. But given that mine were too full I just adjusted the ratio. Only took 1 try too 
After I have succes with these jars I'll be making a Tek for Ratio Method Millet Jars. At $20-$25 for 50lbs and available at Every feed store. It's a great grain with 1,000s of inoculation points per jar.
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oontribe


Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,570
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: MushieMainiac]
#23188013 - 05/04/16 09:15 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8508523/fpart/1/vc/1
best method for preparing millet...go it recommended to me by a TC and had 100% success from it! just follow it to the T
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MushieMainiac
MycoNovice

Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 290
Loc: Shroomery
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: oontribe]
#23188056 - 05/04/16 09:28 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
oontribe said: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8508523/fpart/1/vc/1
best method for preparing millet...go it recommended to me by a TC and had 100% success from it! just follow it to the T
Dude? I didn't ask for a Tek. I clearly have a method that is working well and I was asking if my new batch looked better then the 1st.
Thanks for the link.
But I don't have to soak. I don't have to strain. I just add shit to a jar and PC. I'll keep my method. Thanks anyway
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: MushieMainiac]
#23188077 - 05/04/16 09:36 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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60 mins is nowhere near enough for a properly sterilized grain jar. It might still put out fruits but yields will most probably be effected by bacteria and the sub will be weaker to molds overall.
I second that you should use another tek. Cutting corners doesn't really get you anywhere, especially when you do not know what you are doing.
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MushieMainiac
MycoNovice

Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 290
Loc: Shroomery
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23188238 - 05/04/16 10:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: 60 mins is nowhere near enough for a properly sterilized grain jar. It might still put out fruits but yields will most probably be effected by bacteria and the sub will be weaker to molds overall.
I second that you should use another tek. Cutting corners doesn't really get you anywhere, especially when you do not know what you are doing.
Well I'm not cutting corners. I'm following a Tek made by Starter and he used it for years and was very happy with his results. I'll increase PC times if need be. But I don't see where I'm cutting corners. The Ratio Method is used by a lot of people with great success.
I'm not gonna say I know everything so if you think i should PC for longer I will. But Millet is a incredibly clean grain. Soaking or simmer is just reducing nutrition content with millet. Also saying I don't know what I'm doing is unnecessary man. I'm following Teks and information I get from here. I don't have experience but to right out say I don't know what I'm doing isn't helpful and it's not necessary.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: MushieMainiac]
#23188534 - 05/04/16 12:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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What you said was that you had to reduce the PC time so you wouldn't get clumps, the reason of which is because you don't want to simmer your grains instead of your current method. That is textbook corner cutting. You are using an inferior method to prep your grains and to make them more comfortable to work with you are reducing something as crucial as PC time.
I couldn't give a rat's ass really, but you asked what we think and we gave you honesty. Don't ask the question if you are not going to like the answer.
Losing nutrients because of the soak and simmer is really a stupid excuse IMHO, you're just doing it because it's faster and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you do it right. If you want to do it wrong, we are not going to stop you anyhow. There is plenty of nutrients in grain and as such there will be no difference in your yield. If yield is what you want to improve, perfecting sterile tek, isolating strains, creating good conditions for pinning and making sure you have clean spawn is what you need to do. By reducing your PC time to use this tek, supposedly to "not waste any nutes" you are effectively giving bacterial endospores the upper hand which will effect your yield more than the "nutes you have lost" in the simmer. You also say WBS is "clean", but bacterial endospores is not something you can wash away. A grain can be polished till it shines but it still will have endospores. The only way to set back endospores for your spawn to become clean enough for max yield is to PC your grains for double your current cycle, with the minimum being 90mins.
These reasons are why I said that you "don't know what you are doing". You are trying to make your grows better but lack the knowledge to do so, so you are doing the opposite instead. It is not an insult, neither is it an attempt to hurt your feelings, it is cold hard truth which in the end is for your own good.
Remember that even with a 2hr PC cycle, bacterial endospores are not completely sterilized, they are just damaged enough for your mycelium to grow before they have a chance to recuperate. There have also been attempts in the past to increase nutrients in order to improve yield and it was found that Cubensis doesn't do well with excessive nutrients anyway. This makes sense for a number or reasons, the most simple one being that even us, as humans, we don't get stronger or bigger the more we eat, we just get fat and unhealthy. These results are easy to get for yourself, just make an LC with double the amount of nutrients you would normally use. When you started this thread I was probably the first to say that I had the same big clumps after a PC cycle and honestly, if you don't want that to happen while still getting healthy spawn, your only course of action should be to change your prep tek. At any rate, those clumps will still colonize and if you leave enough room in your jars to be able to shake properly, they will not hurt your grow. Those two options are the only logical ones.
Oats have proven to be a more reliable grain IME so I quickly put millet aside. The tek you have been using is a very old one as well, what worked back then isn't necessarily what works best now. That's why TC's and more up-to-date members say to follow teks made in the last 5 years or less, countless times I might add.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23188606 - 05/04/16 12:51 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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you're forgetting this guy is already a pro Supa.. he isn't asking for advice he's asking for jaws to drop.. topia...hint hint, OP.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: spacechildo]
#23188674 - 05/04/16 01:21 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was wondering what was fueling the attitude. It's a kick in the balls when you are accustomed to being applauded on everything you do then getting completely different reactions from people who know better.
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MushieMainiac
MycoNovice

Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 290
Loc: Shroomery
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23188763 - 05/04/16 01:54 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said:

I was wondering what was fueling the attitude. It's a kick in the balls when you are accustomed to being applauded on everything you do then getting completely different reactions from people who know better.
Alright I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I'll increase my PC times as you suggested. I'm not going with the ratio method because I'm lazy I'm going with it because it works and it's easy. That's all. I wasn't trying to argue. Seriously I just said that I have a Tek. I don't want to change Teks.
I will increase my PC times like you said I should and like I said I would. It's not about being nice and shit it's just unnecessary at times. Whatever. I'm new so your flaming me for having an opinion. I didnt argue. In fact I said I would do what you suggested. I just wanted to use the Tek I choose.
I don't know why you would say I was expecting jaws to drop. I made a 1st batch and I was told they were to full. So what did I do? I took the advice and made less in each jar.
I made another batch that wasn't PC long enough. So I said I would PC longer.
Where am I arguing? Looks like I stated one thing about not soaking away nutrients. So I'm wrong. Ok. I admit it. Something I read that was all. I didn't take a flaming stance and lose my shit. I said 1 sentence.
To say that I'm here for anything other then to learn is bull shit. This thread proves that.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: MushieMainiac]
#23188809 - 05/04/16 02:11 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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No one flamed you and the only one who took a "stance" was you by being defensive. Anyway, I'm not here for an argument, just saying that if anyone was flaming someone he would have gotten warned by mods or banned.
The way we talk here might look "offensive" but we are only being on point without beating around the bush. It's the way it should be IMO and one of the reasons why I love this site. One needs to be insensitive to constructive criticism if he does not wish to melt. I have been facepalmed at least twice and argued with as well but I sucked it up and carried on.
This will be the last time addressing your "tek" cause I would like to point out again that just because it works it doesn't mean it's the best method available. You do not engage in mycology because it is "easy" so choosing a tek just because it's the easiest is not good practice. I don't really expect to change your mind, it's more for the benefit of the newbies who might read this thread and think that simmering is an extra an unnecessary step.
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MushieMainiac
MycoNovice

Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 290
Loc: Shroomery
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23188821 - 05/04/16 02:17 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: No one flamed you and the only one who took a "stance" was you by being defensive. Anyway, I'm not here for an argument, just saying that if anyone was flaming someone he would have gotten warned by mods or banned.
The way we talk here might look "offensive" but we are only being on point without beating around the bush. It's the way it should be IMO and one of the reasons why I love this site. One needs to be insensitive to constructive criticism if he does not wish to melt. I have been facepalmed at least twice and argued with as well but I sucked it up and carried on.
This will be the last time addressing your "tek" cause I would like to point out again that just because it works it doesn't mean it's the best method available. You do not engage in mycology because it is "easy" so choosing a tek just because it's the easiest is not good practice. I don't really expect to change your mind, it's more for the benefit of the newbies who might read this thread and think that simmering is an extra an unnecessary step.
Moving on. Okay good point. It's not unnecessary to soak or simmer it's just a different method.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: MushieMainiac]
#23189014 - 05/04/16 03:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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How sad, constructive criticism made OP melt. I almost feel bad for leaving you a 0 shroom rating in return, that might just make you opt-out.
It's no wonder your ratings are that bad, this is not the first time you melted when someone tried to help you. Help this guy at your own risk guys, he is not worth your time
Edited by Supalemonhaze (05/04/16 04:25 PM)
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MushieMainiac
MycoNovice

Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 290
Loc: Shroomery
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: 1st Time Grain Spawn Jar Prep -PICS- How did I do? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23189726 - 05/04/16 06:57 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Alright man. I don't understand the issue here.
You told me that I had to much millet in my jars.
I made jars with less millet.
I said I PC for 60mins. You said this isn't long enough.
I said I'll PC my jars longer.
I apologized for not being clear.
I wasn't cool and posted a bad rating. I deleted the rating.
I honestly am doing what you said and I even stated that what I read about soaking being bad was false after you clarified.
I never argued. I stated what I read. I was wrong, what I read was false.
I'm not telling you that your advice is bad or that your wrong. I didn't even say I wouldn't do what you suggest. I in fact did as suggested.
I'm not running an experiment?
It's White Millet. Using a Ratio.
Others have done this. I was doing it wrong. I am doing what people said to improve the jars.
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