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agreedwitboardrule
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Can I still Bulk?
#23183194 - 05/03/16 07:37 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey
So i had some BRF cakes colonizing and had to go away fro a few days, they became fully colonized like maybe 5 days or so ago.....
I come back and they are pinning/growing shrooms....
Can i still break them up and mix them with coir to make a bulk monotub?
I didn't introduce fruiting conditions, no light, they are still in sealed containers, no FAE.
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dankington
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I wouldn't do that! They have started another part of the growth cycle. The mycelium is no longer worried about colonizing or consolidating. If you break that cake while it's fruiting, you may not see anything come from it, because you are trying to revert it back to another stage of growth.
If I'm wrong, may lightning strike me down.
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Josex
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Yes, you can, even if they're pinning already.
Also you don't need to keep your jars in the dark. Mycellium will benefit from a 12 hours light cycle during all stages of growth, so you can keep your jars at room temperature on a shelve for instance, where they can catch some indirect sunlight.
Edited by Josex (05/03/16 07:54 AM)
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Supalemonhaze
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Quote:
dankington said: I wouldn't do that! They have started another part of the growth cycle. The mycelium is no longer worried about colonizing or consolidating. If you break that cake while it's fruiting, you may not see anything come from it, because you are trying to revert it back to another stage of growth.
If I'm wrong, may lightning strike me down.
Careful now, might just get struck.
If you spawn consolidated cakes they will revert back to veg mode and re-colonize the substrate again before consolidating a second time. This should not effect the yield or w/e. People get pins on grains as well, albeit not as much as cakes. You can drop the pins in there as well, they will not cause contaminations and they will not rot, mushrooms are just dense mycelium.
Crumble those bitches and goodluck.
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dankington
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I know you're right, But I just feel like it can be counter productive. You'll just be waiting even longer. But do what you want
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Supalemonhaze
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Bulk is infinitely better than cakes IMO so it is definitely worth the wait. Once you make a few grows waiting isn't as bothersome as it once was as well.
I remember when I first started, I wouldn't inoculate my grains with anything but an LC, you just couldn't get me to use wedges due to them being slower. Nowadays I cycle my inoculations so I have a steady stream of mycelium at different points of their life cycle. That way I always have something going so the waiting time is a trivial issue.
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dankington
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whatever dude, IME if you're getting pins, fruit them. Putting cakes to bulk will not necessarily increase your yield if you keep your situation right. You'll just wait another weak for your mycelium to recover. Idk, do what you want. I'm just saying, there's no point once the nutrients are being turned into fruits. IME bulking cakes does not increase yield by any means. Only the environment can.
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GreenRabbit
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Quote:
dankington said: If you're getting pins, fruit them. Putting cakes to bulk will not necessarily increase your yield if you keep your situation right. You'll just wait another weak for your mycelium to recover. Idk, do what you want. I'm just saying, there's no point once the nutrients are being turned into fruits. IME bulking cakes does not increase yield by any means. Only the environment can.
I wouldn't spawn cakes if they are already fruiting. The main deciding factor here is whether OP has a FC built already. If you already have an SGFC, just fruit the cakes on top of perlite. If you are dead set on making a monotub, then do it. I wouldn't build an SGFC just for these cakes though if I was going to do bulk later on.
As far as yield goes, spawning to coir doesn't add much food, so benefits are minimal weight wise. I just prefer having one substrate where I can mist the top.
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bastard4life
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Quote:
dankington said: I wouldn't do that! They have started another part of the growth cycle. The mycelium is no longer worried about colonizing or consolidating. If you break that cake while it's fruiting, you may not see anything come from it, because you are trying to revert it back to another stage of growth.
If I'm wrong, may lightning strike me down.
If you were right then cloning a fruit to agar would be non existent.
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dankington
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Me too, I mean don't get me wrong. When I went to bulk, I didn't look back, despite the advantages for testing cultures. But I mean, if it's consolidated and fruiting, then why put it back into consolidation? A cake can get the same yield if bulked as if just birthed as a cake and kept properly. It's the same nutrients and even more surface area.
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dankington
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Quote:
bastard4life said:
Quote:
dankington said: I wouldn't do that! They have started another part of the growth cycle. The mycelium is no longer worried about colonizing or consolidating. If you break that cake while it's fruiting, you may not see anything come from it, because you are trying to revert it back to another stage of growth.
If I'm wrong, may lightning strike me down.
If you were right then cloning a fruit to agar would be non existent.
How do you mean exactly? That is pretty irrelevant from what I see. If you want to clone a pin, maybe you should make agar plates first? So you know they're sterile.
Edit: I get what you're saying, though. But I feel like it's different with a cake where all the nutrients are being absorbed already. When you transfer to agar, you are introducing a plethora of nutrition.
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GreenRabbit
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Cloning like that really only works with pins and tissue from the inside of a mushroom.
Damaging cakes just slows them down. They definitely need to put energy and time into recovering before being able to fruit well.
Breaking a cake that is already fruiting wouldn't ruin it though, it would just slow it down like a day or so then both pieces should start pinning again.
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bastard4life
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I was just saying that cloning a fruit works because mycelium naturally adapts to its surroundings. It will revert from fruiting to growing given its circumstances.
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GreenRabbit
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Yea, but once a mushroom goes back to being just mycelium, it won't turn around and be a mushroom again. It will make itself part of the substrate and new pins will have to form.
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dankington
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Quote:
GreenRabbit said: Yea, but once a mushroom goes back to being just mycelium, it won't turn around and be a mushroom again. It will make itself part of the substrate and new pins will have to form.
 Exactly. It is, in the end, just more expended energy. If you plan on taking a clone, you are introducing the nutrients for it to divide. without those extra nutrients, a consolidated cake is going to have more trouble going back into consolidation. It's simply too much trouble to bring it into a successful bulk IMO (BC IT'S PINNING ALREADY)
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mushpunx
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Quote:
agreedwitboardrule said: Hey
So i had some BRF cakes colonizing and had to go away fro a few days, they became fully colonized like maybe 5 days or so ago.....
I come back and they are pinning/growing shrooms....
Can i still break them up and mix them with coir to make a bulk monotub?
I didn't introduce fruiting conditions, no light, they are still in sealed containers, no FAE.
You should know that light is beneficial at all stages of growth, keeping those in the dark is outdated info. These are fine to break up and spawn to bulk with, the pins wont make much of a difference.
Although spawn really should be used as soon as its colonized. Next time you plan on using cakes as spawn dont bother consolidating them.
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Supalemonhaze
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Re: Can I still Bulk? [Re: mushpunx]
#23187710 - 05/04/16 07:18 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Reason why I say bulk is infinitely better is because for me, I can more easily make the conditions better for a bulk rather than cakes. It's obviously preference but from what I gather, most folks prefer bulk as well and would probably do the same. Misting 3 times or more a day gets old quick. It's true that there will be more energy "wasted" and more time to wait but I imagine the difference being too small to count energy-wise.
But yeah, I can understand why someone who likes fruiting cakes would prefer to fruit them as is.
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mushpunx
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: Reason why I say bulk is infinitely better is because for me, I can more easily make the conditions better for a bulk rather than cakes. It's obviously preference but from what I gather, most folks prefer bulk as well and would probably do the same. Misting 3 times or more a day gets old quick. It's true that there will be more energy "wasted" and more time to wait but I imagine the difference being too small to count energy-wise.
But yeah, I can understand why someone who likes fruiting cakes would prefer to fruit them as is.
I agree. Cakes are way too tempermental. If you only want to do a small grow instead of growing a few cakes its much easier to just get a couple quarts of grain spawn going and spawn a small tray, fruiting the tray in a spawn bag
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Supalemonhaze
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Re: Can I still Bulk? [Re: mushpunx]
#23187741 - 05/04/16 07:31 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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We were actually talking about crumbling consolidated cakes vs fruiting them as is.
I never really grown cakes, let alone crumble them so I may be biased because I like bulk too much.
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mushpunx
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: We were actually talking about crumbling consolidated cakes vs fruiting them as is.
I never really grown cakes, let alone crumble them so I may be biased because I like bulk too much.
Yea I know man. Cakes work ok crumbled and spawned to bulk sub I guess, Ive never tried it myself but its cool way that new users can learn bulk growing if thry dont z
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Supalemonhaze
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Re: Can I still Bulk? [Re: mushpunx]
#23187778 - 05/04/16 07:48 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cakes should really be for folks who don't own a PC IMHO, I understand the appeal for someone to crumble them. I went all out when I first started, the PC was the first item I bought. A week later I recieved my first pre-mixed MEA.
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mushpunx
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Yea man. I dont even like them for testing.. too slow
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Supalemonhaze
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Re: Can I still Bulk? [Re: mushpunx]
#23187833 - 05/04/16 08:06 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Trays are infinitely better. I've been doing more trays than tubs lately to be honest. Can't find more totes for minitubs so I'm using the large totes I do have to fruit a bunch of trays that strawberries come with at the fruit and veg market. Makes testing fruiting capabilities faster and you can do multiple varieties in a tub.
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tombosley8
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so you just use the regular monotub setup with trays of sub and spawn right? do you case and fruit immediately at spawning?
what sized tub and trays are you using?
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Supalemonhaze
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Any tray and tub works as long as you fill the tub with trays. You could put a couple of trays in a large tub but they would dry out faster and the micro-climate wouldn't be as good as a full one.
I use whatever tub fits all my trays, I split them in two tubs if I have to but as for trays, I use those plastic trays they sell fruits in, like strawberries and kiwi. The ones I use fit about 1.5l volume. Sometimes I make 2 trays from a quart jar but the ones I have going now I put a quart in each, it's a bit overkill but w/e.
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