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Dirtygoat
Bread



Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 561
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Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization
#23181129 - 05/02/16 05:39 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok. So our main goal is shiitake..
But what I am wondering is if oysters are profitable/worth the time and effort?
~$5/lb, can one make a reasonable profit off oysters, considering all the costs that go into growing them?
Furthermore, if so, what would be the best way to pasteurize large quantities of straw (2-5 bales at a time)?
My friend keeps saying steam, but that just seems like so much hassle. My main concern is how do I heat up that much water quickly and efficiently?
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Groo
sola dosis facit venenum



Registered: 12/06/14
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Dirtygoat]
#23181137 - 05/02/16 05:42 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have a pal, He uses a 55 gal barrel. I think 2 barrels a bale in each is the way 2 go 4 you. Profitability is what you make it. You gotta hustle and sell and get connections you can be as profitable as you want to be. Furthermore I think this question better belongs in edibles and cultures.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Dirtygoat]
#23181138 - 05/02/16 05:43 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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You would use lime bath pasteurization
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23181183 - 05/02/16 05:52 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23181250 - 05/02/16 06:14 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: You would use lime bath pasteurization
.
--------------------
Q&A
US vs. THEM
The more I learn, the less I know.
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Dirtygoat
Bread



Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 561
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: LocN9ne]
#23181388 - 05/02/16 06:46 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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How does lime work? Does it ruin the taste of oysters?
Also I've tried this. But my problem was drying out the straw after the soak. Seems too wet or it would take a whole day to dry it
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Dirtygoat]
#23181463 - 05/02/16 07:01 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dirtygoat said: How does lime work? Does it ruin the taste of oysters?
Also I've tried this. But my problem was drying out the straw after the soak. Seems too wet or it would take a whole day to dry it
You do not need to be worrying about commercial cultivation with these questions
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
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Loc: to the brain
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23181479 - 05/02/16 07:05 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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--------------------
Q&A
US vs. THEM
The more I learn, the less I know.
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: LocN9ne]
#23181513 - 05/02/16 07:13 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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OK I'll bite.
Lime works by adjusting the ph to 12 ish, making in inhabitable to most organisms. You just drain straw until it doesnt really drip. It doesn't need to steam dry or anything
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....
Easier than cakes
I do science and shit.
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Dirtygoat
Bread



Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 561
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: maddchef]
#23181822 - 05/02/16 08:23 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I know enough.
My question was the process, like how much lime or how long.
My friend made a ton of lime BO bags and most failed. Maybe other factors but we assumed it was too wet
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azur
God of Fuck



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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Dirtygoat]
#23181877 - 05/02/16 08:34 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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.
Edited by azur (05/02/16 09:09 PM)
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: azur]
#23181924 - 05/02/16 08:45 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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You use enough lime to jack the ph up to 12-13.
Search lime pasteurization or chemical pasteurization
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....
Easier than cakes
I do science and shit.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Dirtygoat]
#23181929 - 05/02/16 08:46 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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For ridiculous amounts of straw, I would say steam is the way to go. You would have something the size of a small room so doing multiple bales in one go would be easy. But if you use 1 or 2 bales at a time the 55gal drum would be feasible.
I use the drum myself, can't imagine myself doing multiple runs in my PC to do a couple monotubs and making a whole mess in the kitchen. I still use lime and I think so do folks who use steam. Drum is pretty low cost to get set up for the first time but if you would need to run it like 5 times a day or more, that's where I imagine a steam system would be more appropriate.
Steam needs time and money for the fabrication, especially if you are paying for the fabrication and AFAIK, the boiler has to be run 24/7(not sure about this, might depend on the size). Steam would be especially wortg using if you have a source of free/cheap firewood.
RR shows how he built his steam pasteurizer, he also lives close to a forest where he can get as much firewood as he needs. Might wanna search that up to get an idea.
I think the steam room could also be used to sterilize spawn, which would be a bonus. Not entirely sure about that though. Also if your house is at the same place as your grow area, that would mean you never run out of hot shower water. For that reason alone I have half a mind for building one
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Dirtygoat
Bread



Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 561
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23182002 - 05/02/16 09:09 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do you think shiitake straw strain would work with lime soaked straw?
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Dirtygoat
Bread



Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 561
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Dirtygoat]
#23182019 - 05/02/16 09:14 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nvm prob not lol dumb question
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Dirtygoat]
#23182829 - 05/03/16 03:48 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Mycelium will bring down the Ph while it's colonizing. I would still recommend using heat along with the lime as straw seems to get mold very quickly.
When I use straw, the few ones at the top that hang over the sub still start turning green before the mycelium has a chance to colonize it. This is after using both heat and lime for pasteurization, I doubt a high Ph alone will keep mold at bay.
There was a thread once on how they do it in india, and if I remember correctly they used formaldahyde and lime for chemical pasteurization. I also read on another article or thread that chemical pasteurization using harsh chemicals will reduce the yield when compared to heat pasteurization. You should do some real research if you are doing this as a way to get money, you need to see what your options are and the results of whatever method you choose to use. Getting some suggestions from people in that line of work will be a hundred times more useful than getting suggestions from folks who do this as a hobby.
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Dirtygoat
Bread



Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 561
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23184290 - 05/03/16 12:53 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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You're right, thank you. Our main goal is Shiitake, but the damn steam boiler for our giant autoclave broke over winter so we are trying to fix it, or find a new one. We will probably PC even straw down the line, we were just looking for an easy way to use the shitload of spawn we have while we wait.
Ty all. Looks like my best bet is to just wait for the PC
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Dirtygoat]
#23184639 - 05/03/16 02:06 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Call me a dick but I dont have high expectations from someone who thought lime might effect the taste of mushrooms grown on straw treated with it.
I would grow some for a few years at home first
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23184687 - 05/03/16 02:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think he already does this for a living. At least the part where he says their boiler for their autoclave broke down seems to indicate so. I dunno though, if they never used it I can understand why they would be hesitant to since chemical pasteurization isn't considered as the best. I am actually surprised they never used it, straw is said to be a mold magnet even when lime is used let alone without it.
I have only just recently started using straw, hopefully it will perform well cause I like it. A little more work and it's annoying that you have to layer the spawn and straw rather than mix but it's dirt cheap, can't get any better price-wise. If all goes well I can see myself not having to spend all that money on coir, finally. Summer might cause a bit of a problem due to the heat straw tubs put out, you can literally feel it radiating off the tub. I was colonizing my first oyster laundry basket a week ago and put a thermometer next to it, room temp was 70 and the thermometer was reading 75F on the outside, can't imagine what the temp was like in the middle, especially when considering it's at least a foot deep.
I do have a question though. Would mushrooms grown on lime treated straw not be eligible for organic labeling?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23185333 - 05/03/16 04:59 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Use organic lime
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deadmandave
Slime


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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23186628 - 05/03/16 10:09 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wood ash can also be used in place of hydrated lime as it will also increase the pH to 12-13.
According to Aloha Medicinals pH swing pasteurization leads to better yields vs steam pasteurization with wood ash being the most efficient. Here's a PDF they put together with some more info: http://www.alohaculturebank.com/mushroom-growing.pdf
Or there site also talks about lime pasteurization: http://www.alohaculturebank.com/low-tech-growing.html#.Vyl1kyNlDqA
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: deadmandave]
#23186720 - 05/03/16 10:32 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wood ash has contributions to nutritional yield. I suspect ammonium hydroxide may help too in small amounts by supplying more nitrogen in substrates that are not "hot" to begin with
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tump
ban the undead



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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23186802 - 05/03/16 10:54 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Lime and bleach works fine for all mushrooms. Also profit wise ostyers are easier to sell in my market i get 9 dallors a lb vs 7 for others. Not to burst your hard labor or anything but you need to be sure you want to do this for a living owning a small company where your the owner and only worker is an ungodly amount of paper work and fees i was paying 15k a year to feds just for the right to run a mushroom farm. The key is to produce less then 2000 lbs a. Year in this state. Good luck
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: tump]
#23187719 - 05/04/16 07:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Never realised lime could be organic, always thought it would be considered as a chemical thus removing any chance of organic labeling.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23187781 - 05/04/16 07:49 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: Never realised lime could be organic, always thought it would be considered as a chemical thus removing any chance of organic labeling.
that would be a little unsettling thinking of organic milk, orange juice, beer, etc... factories not being able to sanitize their tanks etc...
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23187796 - 05/04/16 07:55 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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To be eligible for an “Organic” label claim, a product must contain less than 5% of materials found on the National List. To be eligible for a “Made with Organic (specific foods or food groups)” label claim, a product must contain less than 30% non-agricultural materials included on 205.605(the national list) and any non-organic agricultural ingredient. 205.606 does not apply to products in this label category.
There are a few sanitizing agents listed specifically on 205.605(the national list) as allowed for cleaning of equipment and/or direct food contact. Chlorine, peroxyacetic acid, hydrogen peroxide and ozone are a few with particular annotations.
Certified Organic growers are not allowed by the USDA Organic Rules to use either burnt-lime or hydrated-lime
There are two basic types of lime available:
-Calcium Carbonate, called calcitic limestone (CaCO3)
-Calcium Magnesium Carbonate, called dolomitic limestone [CaMg(CO3)2].
If calcium carbonate is heated, the carbon dioxide portion escapes and the result is called burnt-lime or quick-lime (CaO). If the burnt-lime is combined with water, hydrated-lime [Ca(OH)2] or slaked-lime is produced.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23187812 - 05/04/16 08:02 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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So the trick is to use less than 5% of the substrates weight? Or since the mushrooms themselves will not have the lime it doesn't matter?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23187825 - 05/04/16 08:05 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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since the mushrooms themselves will not have the lime it doesn't matter?
would be willing to bet
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23187843 - 05/04/16 08:12 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, they break everything down anyway. Or at least they suspect they do.
I was reading Stamet's article where he compares oil contaminated soil treatment. Aside from being the best possible method for cleaning the soil from oil, he says the mushrooms should not be "tainted" by the oil AFAIK even though they say that one should not eat such mushrooms(sounds like something a lawyer would make you write anyway). The interesting thing is that the spores created from such mushrooms will be able to fruit better next time round.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23188830 - 05/04/16 02:21 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Staments I take him with a grain of salt.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23188852 - 05/04/16 02:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why? Don't you believe it? I don't consider him as a mentor, the way overpriced items he sells makes that rather impossible but I do believe that it is a very good way to clean up contaminated soil. I didn't really read all the article but I saw him on a recording of ted talks or whatever it was and he was saying how tests were done and was even talking in numbers and shit that I didn't understand but everyone there was like
I think even RR made some work with cleaning up drainage contaminations with mushroom mycelium but I might have him confused with more of stamet's work.
Edited by Supalemonhaze (05/04/16 02:31 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23189026 - 05/04/16 03:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Staments has a history of exaggerated claims, unsupported theories. Etc... Good with a grain of salt. He isn't dumb, he's just like the Billy Mays of mushrooms
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Commercial mushroom straw pasteurization [Re: bodhisatta]
#23189170 - 05/04/16 04:07 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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He is anything but dumb, a $10 scalpel is sold for $20 on his site. The difference? One is named scalpel #7 on ebay while the other is named "Stamets favourite scalpel" on his site. Yay! Honey, look! I just got buttfucked into buying a scalpel Paul Stamets likes. There is nothing dumb about raping someone's wallet and making them happy in the process.
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