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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
Temp and Humidity
    #23163623 - 04/28/16 12:11 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

So im noticing that my SG FC will hold high RH ( 94-100 %) When the lid is off and the temp is low ( 67 degrees ) , but when i put the lid on, the temp gets to 71 max and the RH drops to 80%.

Im using an aquarium heater in a tray of water for heating.

My question here is what is ideal Temp and RH and how can i achieve a balance if the temp that holds 90-100 % RH is to low ?


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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23163635 - 04/28/16 12:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)












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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23163686 - 04/28/16 12:40 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Luminous7 said:
Im using an aquarium heater in a tray of water for heating.





Get rid of it and that jar of water in there.
Mist it a few times a day.

It'll do the rest for you.

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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #23163727 - 04/28/16 01:05 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Ok thanks for the advice. But wont it matter that the temp is a little low ? It will be below 68F what is to cold for fruit production ?


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23163779 - 04/28/16 01:46 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You can't heat the whole room?

The SGFC needs to create the air current, so having a bowl of hot water above the perlite won't do much more than mix around the air at the top level.
Could be why you're reading a humidity drop when the lid is on. It isn't less humid, but mixing more.

Air needs to flow through the perlite, so if there is a warm pocket of air above cold wet perlite, there isn't much of a reason for air to flow through it.

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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #23163964 - 04/28/16 04:58 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
You can't heat the whole room?

The SGFC needs to create the air current, so having a bowl of hot water above the perlite won't do much more than mix around the air at the top level.
Could be why you're reading a humidity drop when the lid is on. It isn't less humid, but mixing more.

Air needs to flow through the perlite, so if there is a warm pocket of air above cold wet perlite, there isn't much of a reason for air to flow through it.



not arguing just trying to understand. But wouldnt having warmer air above the perlite ( in the case of a heat source other than the substrate ) draw the cooler air from the perlite upward ?

Also would pointing a space heater toward the terrarium work? I cant heat the entire room except with the use of a space heater, and  I dont know how well that would work. Im just finding it difficult to bring the FC up to temp while keeping the RH at the right % .

Thanks for your feed back you seem to be the only who whos trying to help me out and I appreciate it.


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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23164004 - 04/28/16 05:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I dont think air is getting through my perlite properly. it was pretty fine and busted alot from the store. so i think its compacted and not loose enough. im guna fluff it up.


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23164017 - 04/28/16 05:46 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

The cooler air is more dense, so why would it rise?

Fluffing the perlite will help.

Is this space heater a dish radiator type?
That could work if aimed at the perlite.

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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #23164028 - 04/28/16 05:54 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
The cooler air is more dense, so why would it rise?

Fluffing the perlite will help.

Is this space heater a dish radiator type?
That could work if aimed at the perlite.



i dont even know anymore im so confused lol . Cant get my head around this pressure/Rh/temperature thing.


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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23164032 - 04/28/16 05:55 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I assume the more dense air (cooler) would rise because its being drawn toward the warmer air ( less dense) to create an equilibrium. But like I said im beyond confusion.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23164056 - 04/28/16 06:11 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Warm air rises, thus pulling the cooler air up thru the holes in the bottom.

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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: PussyFart]
    #23164108 - 04/28/16 06:33 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PussyFart said:
Warm air rises, thus pulling the cooler air up thru the holes in the bottom.



so the moist perlite is cooler than the ambient air tempeture above the perlite? where does the heat come from if there is no heat source. Wouldnt have a aqarium heater in a dish of water sitting on the perlite create more warm air to rise out of the FC drawing more cool air from the bottom ?

With out a heat source in there my temp is like 18C , which from what i read is to cold for fruiting /?


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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23164121 - 04/28/16 06:38 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

With the light on , specs seem to be much better. its sitting at 90% RH and 21C.

But i think temp is only at 21C because i had the space heater on it breifly and i beleive it will drop to around 18C again


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23164185 - 04/28/16 07:12 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PussyFart said:
Warm air rises, thus pulling the cooler air up thru the holes in the bottom.




Nah that's backwards. An SGFC has too many holes to demand air be drawn through cold wet perlite.
If the air above is heated, it will rise on its own, and I would expect this to draw air in through the lowest side holes above the perlite.

The perlite should be evaporating water, which increases the humidity, and lowers the density causing it to rise. This rise pushes the rest of the air out.

Monotubs work on the same principles but in reverse. The air in the tub becomes humid and leaves out the top holes drawing air in through the bottom.
Since an SGFC has so many holes, air leaving through the top doesn't mean air has to enter through the bottom.
Air coming up from the bottom does mean that air has to leave out the top though.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #23164373 - 04/28/16 08:47 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Luminous7 said:
Quote:

PussyFart said:
Warm air rises, thus pulling the cooler air up thru the holes in the bottom.



so the moist perlite is cooler than the ambient air tempeture above the perlite?



In most cases yes, but the air that gets pulled up is from outside the chamber, not just in the perlite.

Quote:

Luminous7 said:
where does the heat come from if there is no heat source.



The cakes.

Quote:

Luminous7 said:
Wouldnt have a aqarium heater in a dish of water sitting on the perlite create more warm air to rise out of the FC drawing more cool air from the bottom ?



Yes, but if referring to a SGFC, this is only going to hinder its overall functionality.

Quote:

Luminous7 said:
With out a heat source in there my temp is like 18C , which from what i read is to cold for fruiting /?



That is bullshit, 65F is fine for fruiting.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #23164380 - 04/28/16 08:52 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Quote:

PussyFart said:
Warm air rises, thus pulling the cooler air up thru the holes in the bottom.




Nah that's backwards. An SGFC has too many holes to demand air be drawn through cold wet perlite.



:facepalm: Wrong.

Heat rises = fact

Humidity rises = fact

When you have heat and humidity currents both rising out the top holes in a SGFC, air can only be pulled in thru the bottom holes.

It's physically impossible for this to happen any different.

The heat and humidity are not going to just change direction because of bad logic.

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
If the air above is heated, it will rise on its own, and I would expect this to draw air in through the lowest side holes above the perlite.



Yes, and thru the holes in the bottom....

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
The perlite should be evaporating water, which increases the humidity, and lowers the density causing it to rise. This rise pushes the rest of the air out.



Yes, and air passing up thru the perlite helps with this.

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Since an SGFC has so many holes, air leaving through the top doesn't mean air has to enter through the bottom.
Air coming up from the bottom does mean that air has to leave out the top though.



Contradict yourself much lately?

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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: PussyFart]
    #23164718 - 04/28/16 10:47 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Luminous7 said:
where does the heat come from if there is no heat source.



The cakes.


So what if theres only one small half pint cake in there ? does it generate enough heat to create the current?


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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: PussyFart]
    #23164731 - 04/28/16 10:51 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Luminous7 said:
With out a heat source in there my temp is like 18C , which from what i read is to cold for fruiting /?



That is bullshit, 65F is fine for fruiting.






Ok phew thanks man. I think ill be fine and can stop worrying. I came home and im sitting at 21C and around 90% RH . I fluffed up the perlite real good with a fork and the inside FC walls were dry to i think im getting good FAE while holding good temp and RH. Seems good when the light is on , perhaps due to it creating heat in the top portion of the chamber?


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OfflineLuminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23164736 - 04/28/16 10:52 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the feed back guy s I appreciate it and understand a little better about all this RH / temps / and pressure currents.

when the light is off the humidity spikes and temp drops is this normal ?


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Invisiblemupetmower
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
    #23164750 - 04/28/16 10:58 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, think about it. light gives off heat. when it is off the temp will drop. when the temp drops, that makes the rH a higher percentage since the colder air is, the less moisture it can hold. =]


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-The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.


-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.

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