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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Basic Principles of the Shotgun Fruiting Chamber
Humid air is less dense than dry air. As the water on the perlite evaporates, it rises up and out the upper holes while simultaneously drawing FA in through the bottom holes and up through the damp perlite thus creating a system humid FAE. If you cover the bottom holes, the perlite evaporates much much slower and the RH drops. That's reasonable evidence to support the claim that air coming in through the perlite plays a major role in functionality.
If you have a heat source inside, it will lower RH because warm air holds more moisture than cooler air. When you have the lid on, more heat gets trapped, thus lowering RH. The heat also rises, but because the heat source is on top of the perlite, more air gets drawn in from the open holes, thus adding more dry air and does very little for perlite evaporation except on the surface.
The main lesson here is to heat the room, not the FC. Alterations to the SGFC will usually cause it to perform worse. Many have tried to alter it and the vast majority have failed.
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 2,667
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Y'all misunderstood me.
In a normal SGFC, the perlite evaporating water is the driving force. It takes the air at the very bottom of the tub and moves it upwards. This draws in through the bottom.
If you have a heated bowl of water in there, the air above the perlite gets much warmer than the perlite. The driving force becomes air leaving, not being pushed. This will separate the air from the perlite somewhat. Air can leave just because it gets warmer and this will cause a lot of airflow but most of the air will be drawn in from the lowest holes above the perlite. There just isn't much of a reason for air to travel through the perlite anymore. It is really cold, so it isn't evaporating much water, and has a minimal impact on environment.
Basically, the warm water being there ruins the air current the perlite is trying to create. Either that, or the bowl of water doesn't really have much effect at all.
That's why I suggested just warming the whole room and allowing the perlite to work.
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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yeah fo sho..
i was just answering the OP's question about when he turns his light off and the temp and rH drops =p
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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Luminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
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Post deleted by Luminous7Reason for deletion: unorganised
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Luminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
#23167463 - 04/29/16 12:02 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sorry that quote reply is so wonky
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Luminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: Basic Principles of the Shotgun Fruiting Chamber
Humid air is less dense than dry air. As the water on the perlite evaporates, it rises up and out the upper holes while simultaneously drawing FA in through the bottom holes and up through the damp perlite thus creating a system humid FAE. If you cover the bottom holes, the perlite evaporates much much slower and the RH drops. That's reasonable evidence to support the claim that air coming in through the perlite plays a major role in functionality.
If you have a heat source inside, it will lower RH because warm air holds more moisture than cooler air. When you have the lid on, more heat gets trapped, thus lowering RH. The heat also rises, but because the heat source is on top of the perlite, more air gets drawn in from the open holes, thus adding more dry air and does very little for perlite evaporation except on Humid air is less dense than dry air. As the water on the perlite evaporates, it rises up and out the upper holes while simultaneously drawing FA in through the bottom holes and up through the damp perlite thus creating a system humid FAE. If you cover the bottom holes, the perlite evaporates much much slower and the RH drops. That's reasonable evidence to support the claim that air coming in through the perlite plays a major role in functionality.
The main lesson here is to heat the room, not the FC. Alterations to the SGFC will usually cause it to perform worse. Many have tried to alter it and the vast majority have failed.
So the key is to heat the perlite to encourage evaporation thus creating humid air flow up wards and fresh air in through the bottom ? Would the only way to evaporate moisture off the perlite be via the lights heat hitting the surface of the perlite ? and a combination of the ambient rooms temperature warming the perlite from underneath? what about a heat mat underneath the SGFC to encourage evaporation through the perlite ?
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Luminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
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Quote:
GreenRabbit said: Y'all misunderstood me.
In a normal SGFC, the perlite evaporating water is the driving force. It takes the air at the very bottom of the tub and moves it upwards. This draws in through the bottom.
If you have a heated bowl of water in there, the air above the perlite gets much warmer than the perlite. The driving force becomes air leaving, not being pushed. This will separate the air from the perlite somewhat. Air can leave just because it gets warmer and this will cause a lot of airflow but most of the air will be drawn in from the lowest holes above the perlite. There just isn't much of a reason for air to travel through the perlite anymore. It is really cold, so it isn't evaporating much water, and has a minimal impact on environment.
Basically, the warm water being there ruins the air current the perlite is trying to create. Either that, or the bowl of water doesn't really have much effect at all.
That's why I suggested just warming the whole room and allowing the perlite to work.
I like this explaination. Warm the perlite so it can "push" evaporation upward
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Luminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
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Quote:
mupetmower said: yeah, think about it. light gives off heat. when it is off the temp will drop. when the temp drops, that makes the rH a higher percentage since the colder air is, the less moisture it can hold. =]
Yea that makes sense. Just checking. SO its ok to have a cooler "lights off" period and high 100% humidity? i guess thats kinda like nature where everything is cold and moist at night ?
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
#23174023 - 04/30/16 08:38 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Heat the room, not the FC or any of it's parts. It doesn't take much to get perlite to evaporate, just access to some fresh air and the ability for air flow.
A SGFC will do it's job if you don't mess with it too much.
A heat mat underneath won't do much to increase RH and it won't do anything to heat up the SGFC because the temperature inside will be regulated by the air around it in the room. You don't need to increase the RH of SGFC, just mist the cakes like you are supposed to and the RH at the surface of the cakes will be where it's supposed to be and so will the FC.
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Luminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: Heat the room, not the FC or any of it's parts. It doesn't take much to get perlite to evaporate, just access to some fresh air and the ability for air flow.
A SGFC will do it's job if you don't mess with it too much.
A heat mat underneath won't do much to increase RH and it won't do anything to heat up the SGFC because the temperature inside will be regulated by the air around it in the room. You don't need to increase the RH of SGFC, just mist the cakes like you are supposed to and the RH at the surface of the cakes will be where it's supposed to be and so will the FC.
Thanks for gettiing back to me . Yeah im noticing since i took the Aquarium tank heater out of there its alot more "low maintenance". And is usually at 80-90% RH. My only option is to use a little space heater to raise temps in the room , kind of annoying but oh well. How often should i be misting ? I feel like im soaking alot. the cake is always soggy and pretty heavy when i pick it up.
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
#23175113 - 05/01/16 05:39 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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only mist when the cake looks dry. and then mist until it has tiny little beads of moisture. dont do it on a schedule, but only when it needs it. =]
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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I've been hoping this would get a lot more examples posted. perhaps you'd be willing to contribute? The Misted Cake Project
I use a space heater in the winter as well. I find the oil filled radiators with a thermostat to work the best.
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A little civility goes a long way
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GaiaSporeworks
Stranger


Registered: 10/31/15
Posts: 52
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Quote:
mupetmower said: only mist when the cake looks dry. and then mist until it has tiny little beads of moisture. dont do it on a schedule, but only when it needs it. =]
This is how I do it as well. Not too much, not too little. Only when it looks like it's dry.
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blackdust

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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warmer temp allows for more moisture to be held in the air
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said:

I've been hoping this would get a lot more examples posted. perhaps you'd be willing to contribute? The Misted Cake Project
I use a space heater in the winter as well. I find the oil filled radiators with a thermostat to work the best.
are you asking me to provide some pics for examples for it? sure, i can. i mean i am still a noob, but i will, and if it seems like i am doing it right, then you can use the pictures =p
tomorrow, when i wake up, ill take a pic, and document every time i mist for that day, with pictures and notes.
if you werent taking to me, then... haha sorry for assuming.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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I think he meant everyone.
If you do take pics, make sure flash is on so you can see the glistening. You need light to see it.
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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alright, cool. haha.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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Luminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
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Thanks alot guys! when you say it looks dry do you mean when the verm is not glistening ? Cuz my cake can be pretty "heavy" when lifted to check if its drying out and seems like its saturated with water even when the verm isnt glistening? I maybe mist and fan like 2-3 times a day
I think im doing fine. Just kinda at that point where im over thinking because im waiting for my pins to start becomming visible
It has been 6 days since i dunk and rolled and still no sign of primordia or anything. How long roughly does it take to see pins from the point of birthing ?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Temp and Humidity [Re: Luminous7]
#23177014 - 05/01/16 04:55 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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time to pins is usually about 3-14 days
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Luminous7


Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 1,443
Last seen: 4 days, 22 hours
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: time to pins is usually about 3-14 days
From this i learn patience.... thanks man
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