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Bertoxulous
Stranger

Registered: 04/26/16
Posts: 23
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency
#23156241 - 04/26/16 07:54 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I am an experienced grower but my projects in the past have been thorough and without time limitations.
However, I now want to try and get a grow out preferably by the end of July, from start to finish with a multi-spore injection. So I am looking for some feedback and suggestions.
1. I will need to make spore syringes as I am pretty sure I only have prints. I have only done this once in my experiences, so if anyone can point me towards a simple and sterile procedure for make syringes I'd appreciate it. I'll be making small syringes since I'm going to want to use multiple samples due to them all being about 6-7 years old, which may lead to a higher germination failure rate.
2. I'm likely going bulk sub from grain spawn since that is what I'm experienced with and I already have all the supplies I would need. Is my 3 month time frame enough? Correct me if this approximate schedule is incorrect: 2 weeks tops from injection to germination, 3-4 weeks to colonize spawn, 2-3 weeks to colonize substrate, 1-2 weeks of fruiting. That's 11 weeks at the high end of the time frames, which would put me under the 3 month time frame.
I want to use multiple strains/spore samples for inoculation, due to the spores being 6-7 years old now, so I'm assuming there will be some high failure rates. This also gives me some insurance in case some spores are contaminated.
3. Being as all of the spawn jars will be multi spore cubensis, I know that it doesn't matter if I mix different "strains" of spawn in a single tub, but should I perhaps keep separate "strains" to thier own mono-tubs to possibly prevent cross contamination if one strains spores were contaminated and not identified during colonization? Or perhaps would it be more efficient to construct a large SGFC that could contain multiple trays of bulk sub for fruiting purposes?
I have been out of the loop for some time, so I am sure some things have changed. Could someone please point me towards a simple, easy to prepare and highly successful/contam resistant bulk substrate recipe?
Any and all suggestions and criticism are welcome. Thank you all who contribute to this great community!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: Bertoxulous]
#23156250 - 04/26/16 07:58 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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all the links in my signature, then individually on the main page of AMU and TNF there's more links to all the relevant things.
the let's grow musrhooms video has a spore print, syringe making video so watch that. it may be good to keep the spores in the syringe a few days to hydrate then try using them. if you can do agar plates as well
a still air box is the standard sterile technique tool other than a flow hood. a still air box is what you want to use to do all the inoculations and spore syringe making, there's links to those in the amu and tnf
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Bertoxulous
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Registered: 04/26/16
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: bodhisatta]
#23156260 - 04/26/16 08:04 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks!
Yes I've used a SAB before to do my work, I have the "Let's grow" videos on my home PC, so I will re-watch those for syringe making purposes.
Thank you for the tip on waiting to use the syringes for hydration, I forgot about that, cheers.
Any suggestions as to going individual monotubs vs. a SGFC with smaller bulk trays?
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camplo
Freedom!


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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: Bertoxulous]
#23156344 - 04/26/16 08:34 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'd check out Eatyualive's journal for some of the best up to date teks. Are you not using agar? It sounds like you already know what you want to do but are just checking to see whats mainstream now. Since you want to go bulk there's no need to bring up Mudacups, even though I think its worth a look/try. People seem to like to use blenders for things like Li and grain slurry but you have be careful or the blender will kill your mycelium. Actually I think they are slurrying cornmeal patties now? G2G is still then same and effective just as it was when you were more current. I was just reading the other night, blinding leaf was describing how he inoculated spores to not yet completely solidified agar. The warm agar in this state serves to soften the spore wall is what I think was stated. Maybe that will help you speed things up? I haven't dealt with spores that old so I can't speak from experience. As far as bulk subs go, everyone seems to agree that CVG (coir/verm/gypsum) is the bee's knee's, or at least, simple and good, as well as not so prone to contaminate. THe most important thing I can think of that will help you time wise in all areas is having optimal temps, which seem to be upper 70's to about 80 or so degrees. GL.
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Edited by camplo (04/26/16 08:53 AM)
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kxripps
Mastermind



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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: Bertoxulous]
#23156348 - 04/26/16 08:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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In addition to Bodhisatta's links. There is also this. Somewhat the same.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23043828
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Bertoxulous
Stranger

Registered: 04/26/16
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: kxripps]
#23156373 - 04/26/16 08:48 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you guys for your responses!
Camplo, could you please elaborate on Mudacups and what/how people use a blender for grain colonization?
Thank you again
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camplo
Freedom!


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 1,675
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: Bertoxulous]
#23156435 - 04/26/16 09:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Mudas bottle tek https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21168958#21168958
In here you'll find grain slurry tek and tons of other helpful stuff. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Journal/9275
If you are old school you should be familiar with LC. There still isn't a faster inoculant from my experience. 20ml per quart jar should give you pretty fast colonization but youll have to prep you grains a little on the dry said, like 40-43%. You'll find many dislike LC and it has a bad name around the forums nowadays. They've actually made a tek for blenderless li https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22833314#22833314 In nutshell take any clean source of mycelium, whether it be agar or a jar of colonized grain, or the cornmeal patties etc etc, add water, shake, use. I pour straight from jar but if you are making syringes colonized agar or grain might compliment better. Cornmeal might clog syringe, but would work with pouring, surprised they haven't created a blenderless cornmeal slurry tek. I'd just check the regular tek for better details than I can give, if you interested that is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22252599#22252599 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20429745#20429745 Foomans grain prep is my fav method to prep grain. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5265629#5265629 If you understand the mechanics you can adjust the recipe for any grain I believe. Straight millet is done in under 30 minutes, this method, but Rye takes much longer to hydrate than birdseed with this method. Spitballjedi has made a tek based off this here https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20470562#20470562 I just heat water to steaming hot water as opposed to rolling boil water in the container that came with and fits inside my PC, add grain, put the lid on PC and then watch the grains, over a period of time they will finish and you can tell by how much they've expanded, when they are about done. I don't think you can oversoak with this method to no ill effect beyond a small percentage of bursted grains. I just prepped a mix of rye and wheat that start off in steaming hot water, sat over night and I poured it out to drain and dry ,this mourning, no busted grains. If you use water in a rolling boil it hydrate faster but you might end up with more bursted grains if you oversoak. Make sure to drain properly before loading into jars. The paper towel test is what some do. Coffee is supposed help with speed too, add liquid coffee to soak water. Less than 50% regular strength coffee water to soak water should be fine.
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Edited by camplo (04/26/16 09:49 AM)
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 71,179
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: Bertoxulous]
#23156611 - 04/26/16 10:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Making spore syringes is really easy, but u need a still air box or SAB.
First, boil some water, after its boiling, wear gloves and suck up hot boiling water into the syringe. Then squirt the water out into the sink do this about 10 times. on the last time, leave the water in the syringe. replace the needle cap (if u have one), wrap it up in some tin foil or just drop in a plastic bag.
Wait at least 12 hours for cooling.
Now, in the SAB, bring your syringe, clean glass half pint jar, new razor blade and print into the box, spray down the inside with water dropplets, then get your clean jar. Heat up the razor red hot (wear gloves), let it cool down. then once cool, scrape some spores into the clean glass jar and then shoot all the water from the syringe into the jar. U can also use a brand new ziplock bag too for this as they are sterile on the inside from the manufacturing process of making plastic bags.
heat up the metal needle with a lighter (like the one used for the razor). Let it cool down.
Now suck up the spore water, cap needle and wrap in foil. bam! spore syring.
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Bertoxulous
Stranger

Registered: 04/26/16
Posts: 23
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#23157126 - 04/26/16 12:41 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Awesome information! Thank you guys.
Yes I remember when LC was the next big thing.
Quick look at the LI system, seems like a much improved method.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: Bertoxulous]
#23157463 - 04/26/16 02:36 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Eat and hamloaf are the "joke" TCs take their shit with a grain of salt
Eat's stuff is copy and pasted from mycopia. It sounds awesome to noobs but a little research shines a light on how good that usually ends up
If you stick around you'll find all about camplo too
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (04/26/16 03:34 PM)
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Bertoxulous
Stranger

Registered: 04/26/16
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: bodhisatta]
#23157624 - 04/26/16 03:36 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well someone whose named from the Tibetan Book of the Dead should be trust worthy I hope.
So does my time line seem accurate?
If I do an MS inoculation by the end of April, should I see fruits by the end of July?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: Bertoxulous]
#23157655 - 04/26/16 03:44 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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May to July definitely
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camplo
Freedom!


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 1,675
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: bodhisatta]
#23157972 - 04/26/16 05:09 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I wouldn't take Bodhisatta word for exact truth either. Eatyu has been around for a long time, longer than Bod thats for sure. He's pretty experienced and I don't think he would be pushing fake or useless information. Which tek are you referring to as being no good I wonder? its not enough to make a claim without presenting your evidence, and Eatyu always post edvidence along with his ideas, whether they are original or not. As well, if the shroomery gave them the TC badge then that means the administration supports their ideology and you should respect that. I really don't understand what is to gain by suggesting one way is better than the other when each route has its own benefits and fall backs. There is no one way a person must go about things, per say, but rather whatever works best for them.
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themadextractor
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Registered: 06/25/14
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: bodhisatta]
#23157975 - 04/26/16 05:09 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Also since no one has said it yet it's been shown that instead of letting the substrate colonise all the way you can put it straight into fruiting without hurting the yield. You tend to see pins with in 2 weeks of spawning instead on 30 days with the old way. It's become quite popular around here. Good luck man
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: camplo]
#23157996 - 04/26/16 05:14 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
camplo said: I wouldn't take Bodhisatta word for exact truth either. Eatyu has been around for a long time, longer than Bod thats for sure. He's pretty experienced and I don't think he would be pushing fake or useless information. Which tek are you referring to as being no good I wonder? its not enough to make a claim without presenting your evidence, and Eatyu always post edvidence along with his ideas, whether they are original or not. As well, if the shroomery gave them the TC badge then that means the administration supports their ideology and you should respect that. I really don't understand what is to gain by suggesting one way is better than the other when each route has its own benefits and fall backs. There is no one way a person must go about things, per say, but rather whatever works best for them.
How long you going to stay unbanned this week?
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: themadextractor]
#23158017 - 04/26/16 05:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
themadextractor said: Also since no one has said it yet it's been shown that instead of letting the substrate colonise all the way you can put it straight into fruiting without hurting the yield. You tend to see pins with in 2 weeks of spawning instead on 30 days with the old way. It's become quite popular around here. Good luck man
that works for some, yeah,but 30 days man WTF yields wont suffer when you use high spawn ratios, for sure. oh and PS that's basically the old way,how many of us learned to do the monotub, not the new way.
and OMG camplo just go away, stop derailing any more threads..please?
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themadextractor
Stranger


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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: spacechildo]
#23158391 - 04/26/16 06:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
themadextractor said: Also since no one has said it yet it's been shown that instead of letting the substrate colonise all the way you can put it straight into fruiting without hurting the yield. You tend to see pins with in 2 weeks of spawning instead on 30 days with the old way. It's become quite popular around here. Good luck man
that works for some, yeah,but 30 days man WTF yields wont suffer when you use high spawn ratios, for sure. oh and PS that's basically the old way,how many of us learned to do the monotub, not the new way.
and OMG camplo just go away, stop derailing any more threads..please?
Kinda confused what you mean. It would take me like a week and a half to colonise and then another 10 to pin after fruiting. Just figured I'd mention it since he wants fruits fast.
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Bertoxulous
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Registered: 04/26/16
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: themadextractor]
#23158682 - 04/26/16 07:25 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I remember when there was no monotub.
It was Eatyu's double tub that spawned that method.
Anyways, cut the bullshit drama in my thread please.
Back on topic.
I've read that some people actually do inoculations with self healing injection ports with out using a still air/glove box. Is this really that effective? I would think the risk for contams would still be pretty high.
I only mention it because I have plenty of lids with SHIP's and I lost my Glove box long ago, so if I don't really need to construct a new box, I won't, but it seems pretty risky to do innocs in open air, even with SHIP's.
Thoughts?
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Bertoxulous
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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: Bertoxulous]
#23158691 - 04/26/16 07:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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For shits and giggles.
The original Doubletub thread: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3026085/fpart/1/vc/1
Whether Eatyu got the ideas or info or whatever from another source I could care less. My first ever bulk grow was Golden Teacher using "his" double tub tek with straw/poo and it was my best grow still to this day.
Also, is there some brand or website I can get tyvek sleeves for cheap? Everything I see on amazon is too much for my frugal ass to spend.
Maybe I'll just tape a bunch of tyvek business envelopes together to make sleeves haha.
Edited by Bertoxulous (04/26/16 07:33 PM)
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YaMoonSun
The Double Standard

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Re: Old timer returning, Help with Simplicity & Efficiency [Re: Bertoxulous]
#23158720 - 04/26/16 07:35 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Instead of making a syringe, just go straight to agar, and from agar to grains or wbs - Go ahead and make a still air box as well.  https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19140341#19140341
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