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InvisibleEffedS
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Registered: 05/15/02
Posts: 7,370
Loc: Daylight Slavings
America
    #2313484 - 02/08/04 10:15 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

It looks great from the outside.


Edited by Effed (02/08/04 10:25 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2313506 - 02/08/04 10:26 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/24/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2313558 - 02/08/04 10:48 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

But when you get in, its hell!


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What?


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/18/01
Posts: 20,814
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2313830 - 02/08/04 04:52 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

It doesn't look so great from this side of the boarder :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2313837 - 02/08/04 05:03 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

"It looks great from the outside. "

but once you come in you'll be a mass consumer and fattened up in 6 months for the harvest.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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InvisibleClean
the lense
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Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2313843 - 02/08/04 05:09 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

maybe i'm missing something here... but america looks pretty bad from the outside IMO. sometimes i get the impression that people the world over think we're generally idiots.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
Being.
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Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 7,825
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Re: America [Re: Clean]
    #2313847 - 02/08/04 05:18 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

"maybe i'm missing something here... but america looks pretty bad from the outside IMO. sometimes i get the impression that people the world over think we're generally idiots."

How true.

America only looks great from the outside if you're in an area where there is a lot of hardship, really. I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of Europeans and Canadians that think the U.S. sucks.


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/18/01
Posts: 20,814
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Re: America [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2313852 - 02/08/04 05:23 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Think about it this way...

The only contact most of us outside the US have with you Americans is through one of two things:

1. Your government...

2. (much more often) Your media...


Take a look at both of these, and you should get a good picture of how you all appear to the rest of the world.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: America [Re: trendal]
    #2313856 - 02/08/04 05:28 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

lol see that's the thing trendal.

people here are proud. like totally proud of everything, regardless of what is done.

If something is uttered, people turn their heads away  :mad2:

heh, that's why I'm moving out of here soon  :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
Being.
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Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 7,825
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Re: America [Re: trendal]
    #2313857 - 02/08/04 05:31 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Yeah, I could see that. I mean, those of us that live here that are sane pretty much wholly dislike the government and the media, so...


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Anonymous

Re: America [Re: trendal]
    #2313897 - 02/08/04 06:16 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2314016 - 02/08/04 07:43 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I'm on the outside and i don't share that feeling. I believe most europeans either like it or don't like it, i think the latter has more followers though.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: America [Re: kaiowas]
    #2314018 - 02/08/04 07:44 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
lol see that's the thing trendal.

people here are proud. like totally proud of everything, regardless of what is done.

If something is uttered, people turn their heads away  :mad2:

heh, that's why I'm moving out of here soon  :grin:




first of all..i dont think you can live and work in another country without the full blessing and support of some fascist global corporation..in which case you become an accessory to their agenda...second of all..the proud crowd has all but totally convinced me that bin laden is right..albeit for all the wrong reasons...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Anonymous

Re: America [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2314045 - 02/08/04 07:55 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

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Offlinemanna_man
High onlife.....andcrack

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Vancouver
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Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2314198 - 02/08/04 08:45 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

If this is some kind of riddle or something then I'm gonna take a stab at it...

Take the word "America". The outside of this word, that is, the first and last letters are both A's. Traditionally in our society, the letter "A" carries with it connotations of excellence or greatness: "You get an 'A' for effort". Now look at the letters on the inside, meric. Rearrange them and what do you get? CRIME.

If it's not a riddle, then this is a very stupid post.


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2314209 - 02/08/04 08:48 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

"It looks great from the outside."

well not so much anymore, and its getting dirtier.... People claim that within ten years or so this place will appear as an undesireable dump


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
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Re: America [Re: Strumpling]
    #2314248 - 02/08/04 08:57 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Thanks for the explanation, manna man (makes sense).

Oh, hell, maybe I stand alone on this but...
America is easily one of the greatest nations.
:heartpump:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2314260 - 02/08/04 09:02 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

America? The United States of? Or the north and soth american land mass?


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get it all together get like birds of a feather


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
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Re: America [Re: ]
    #2314281 - 02/08/04 09:09 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

i live in america, but im look at it from an outside view...im not the social 'norm' an wouldnt really want to be in this society...plus i feel i have no say in anything, im not a corporation with lots a money...im primate that yearns for mother earths sweet kiss, not the concrete playground...ITS TIME FOR A CHANGE!!


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: America [Re: ]
    #2314328 - 02/08/04 09:23 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Bin Laden may well have been correct.

that should qualified with .."assuming he's not still working for the CIA"...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
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Re: America [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2314346 - 02/08/04 09:26 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

What is it that some of you clam Bin Ladin was correct about?


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2314542 - 02/08/04 10:31 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

My interpretation (if the statement was layered) would be that it looks great from the outside, but inside it's empty and shallow. Then again, I'm biased through the countless crummy sitcoms and soap operas, CNN, and the U.S. government.
On national pride: I don't get it. What makes Americans think they're one people? Other than the same crummy government? Why be proud of a certain area of land and salute its flag? Why be proud of military superiority? Why abandon all reason and critical thought when the president is concerned?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
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Re: America [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2314562 - 02/08/04 10:41 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Hmm...as an American (no heckling please), I find most of my pride springs from the freedoms and way of life we have (compared to the lack thereof in most other nations). For the most part, I'm proud of how our gov't has developed, our decent economy, our diversity...hell, I could go on. My pride does not stem from military superiority, however, I am happy to know that our nation has that support. Anyway, that's off topic. To answer your question of why be proud, I'd say that pride among people produces a sense of unity.

Quote:

What is it that some of you clam Bin Ladin was correct about?



I'm still curious about this...


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2314571 - 02/08/04 10:46 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Am I the only proud American member here?  The only one who'll admit it?  I know I can't be...is there indeed more but they're too lazy to reply? :stoned:

OK USA  :thumbup:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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InvisibleTrueBrode
Stranger

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 287
Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2314594 - 02/08/04 10:54 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I'm not in the least bit proud of being an American. I was born here long after the founding fathers wrote a marvelous document. Long after immigrant labor built the infrastructures of this country. Why should I be proud of something that I had no part in, and that my generation is throwing away because they would rather kill their brain cells five times a week then open a newspaper? I'm not proud of anything, but I do feel lucky and infinitely grateful that I was born into a civilization at its peak, and able to experience amazing things due to the comforts that I have been afforded.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2314610 - 02/08/04 10:59 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I'm proud to be born here in the USA, but I'm disgusted with the leaders currently in place, and don't anybody try to tell me that those leaders are my fault because I'll whip out a fucking shotgun and blow your avatar off. I'm sick of people saying "its your fault - you voted them in."

I sure didn't.

I didn't vote on this system to begin with.. at least I don't remember doing so


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

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Re: America [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2314622 - 02/08/04 11:00 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

TrueBrode said:
"...but I do feel lucky and infinitely grateful that I was born into a civilization at its peak, and able to experience amazing things due to the comforts that I have been afforded."

Right on, man...I can dig that  :thumbup:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineSole_Worthy
Stranger

Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2314773 - 02/08/04 11:50 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

There are many countries that are as free if not free-er :P than the USA, yet these nations do not feel the need to drum this into the psyche of the population.


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get it all together get like birds of a feather


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OfflineFrog
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Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2314794 - 02/09/04 12:00 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Well, I'm proud to be an American, regardless of the mistakes we've made. We've done some good, too. But oh no! Let's don't look at that! Let's only look at the ways in which we've fucked up!


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
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Re: America [Re: Frog]
    #2314823 - 02/09/04 12:15 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Good point, Frog.  A line comes to mind...

"You can build a thousand bridges in this lifetime, but if you suck just one cock, you're a cock-sucker for the rest of your life." :mad2:

(wish I could remember from what movie)


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineFrog
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2314831 - 02/09/04 12:17 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

viaggio said:
"You can build a thousand bridges in this lifetime, but if you suck just one cock, you're a cock-sucker for the rest of your life." :mad2:





:oogle:

(Actually, that's a nice quote.  Rofl!)


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2314869 - 02/09/04 12:35 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I never saw taht movie but:

"'You can build a thousand bridges, but suck one cock and for the rest of your life you?re a cocksucker'.
Woody Harrellson
From the movie, 'To The Bone'"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: America [Re: Strumpling]
    #2314886 - 02/09/04 12:39 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Thanx :smile:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Anonymous

Re: America [Re: Frog]
    #2315381 - 02/09/04 04:23 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

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OfflineFrog
Warrior
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Re: America [Re: ]
    #2315421 - 02/09/04 04:31 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Well, please elucidate.  Some of us need to have things s-p-e-l-l-e-d out for "her".  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: America [Re: Frog]
    #2315443 - 02/09/04 04:35 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Yeah, I realized the thread steered in a different direction though I'm not sure what was the original intention. I'm interested to know, MM, if you don't mind elaborating.

Also, I'm still curious as to what was meant by "Bin Laden may well have been correct."

Thanks  :thumbup:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: America [Re: ]
    #2315459 - 02/09/04 04:39 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

yeah M_M what's on your mind?

Are you referring to how America looks great on the outside, and when you get here it still looks great and you get sucked right into the party, unless you're born here as an "insider?"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Anonymous

Re: America [Re: Frog]
    #2315471 - 02/09/04 04:40 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/18/01
Posts: 20,814
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: America [Re: ]
    #2315487 - 02/09/04 04:44 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

For the record: most of us outside the US of A don't really have any beef with Americans.

It's your government that we hate.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: America [Re: ]
    #2315495 - 02/09/04 04:45 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Understandable, my friend.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: America [Re: ]
    #2315519 - 02/09/04 04:50 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

well Effed, its not going to look any better from the outside now that you've already been here, unfortunately.

But OK..


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/24/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: America [Re: ]
    #2315619 - 02/09/04 05:14 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Its not just america, there is a pain here, a deep deep pain. Running away will not make it go away, standing on the outside wont make the view that much brighter, you just wont have to be subject to the end of the country.


It looks great from the outside, but when your inside, its a different story. Some people think that the rules we have governing the populace are the best things! But the people in the united states, and the government have a lot more to do. The problem is so big.

I hate thinking about it, its everywhere, all the f***ing time, but i dont know if i could just get up in leave. Either that, or i will just be miserable and die here, without making any significant change.

This country is filled with a lot of "showy" people, hell, i live in Dallas Ft. Work, another fascade heaquarters.

But I see a universal problem, stretched all throughout humanity, America is just the show.


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What?


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OfflineFrog
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Re: America [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2315711 - 02/09/04 05:37 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

I think the difference is inside yourself.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2318057 - 02/09/04 10:48 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

American people live in a different reality, they are living inside a dream where reality comes knocking the door now and then. Look around you, this isn't a fucking movie, people have died, suffered and starved and they keep doing so just because of monopolistic US interests.
After all, which country rules the world ? And what's its prime engine ?
Welcome to the neo-colonialist era and its globalization ....

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: America [Re: MAIA]
    #2318090 - 02/09/04 11:02 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

MAIA said:
American people live in a different reality, they are living inside a dream where reality comes knocking the door now and then. Look around you, this isn't a fucking movie, people have died, suffered and starved and they keep doing so just because of monopolistic US interests.
After all, which country rules the world ? And what's its prime engine ?
Welcome to the neo-colonialist era and its globalization ....

MAIA




what i really dont understand about the amerikkkan reality..is how the majority views imperialism and fascism as liberty itself..rather than a threat to liberty...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: America [Re: Effed]
    #2318121 - 02/09/04 11:12 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

This thread is very sad on many different levels. I was born in America, but moved out of the country a few years ago. I have a unique perch from which I can observe American life, from an American point of view, without being caught in the day-to-day rat race.

The number one problem with America is the media. The media needs ratings to make money. People tune in to watch big news, which happens every now and then. As a media outlet, I want big news to happen all the time. Since that simple doesn't occur, I will instead make mountains out of mole hills, and treat them as something big and important.

For example... Janet Jackson popped a nipple on live TV. Every last American that I have spoken to about this has said, "I don't see what the big deal is... it was a nipple... so what?" At the same time, if you listen to the media, this pierced piece of flesh is the worst thing that has happened since Hitler started genocide. Every last foreigner that I have spoken with thinks that Americans are bonkers. What they don't understand is that the majority of Americans don't care at all about Janet's nipple on prime time TV. There is a huge difference between what the media portrays as American and what the average American actually feels or believes.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: America [Re: Seuss]
    #2318356 - 02/10/04 12:19 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Exactly! And as I said...this is a big problem because the only thing us foreingers get to see from America is the media coming out of it.

Looking at the media paints a grim, dumbass picture of Americans.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: America [Re: MAIA]
    #2319044 - 02/10/04 03:37 AM (19 years, 21 hours ago)

Seuss has a great point.

MAIA, what do you mean by monopolistic US interests? Actually, what does most of your thread mean? Because US citizens live in a better economy than some other countries means they live in dreamland? It means they never suffer?

Annapurna1, I don't quite understand your post either.

Sigh...I see so much generalization towards Americans in S&P.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Anonymous

Re: America [Re: MAIA]
    #2319580 - 02/10/04 05:57 AM (19 years, 19 hours ago)

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OfflineViaggio
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Re: America [Re: ]
    #2319609 - 02/10/04 06:04 AM (19 years, 19 hours ago)

Man is brutal and savage and no political solution of earth will ever fix that problem. Ever.

Agreed (unfortunately).


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: America [Re: ]
    #2319642 - 02/10/04 06:14 AM (19 years, 18 hours ago)

Thats exactly what i said, and i think this what everybody should keep in mind.

People can only change themselves. In the end, it is up to them to decide what they will or will not do.


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What?


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Anonymous

Re: America [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2319664 - 02/10/04 06:21 AM (19 years, 18 hours ago)

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2320851 - 02/10/04 06:31 PM (19 years, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

what do you mean by monopolistic US interests? Actually, what does most of your thread mean?




That was quick response, sorry if it made no sense to you. When i say "monopolistic US interests" i mean economical interest towards an absolute objective, which is controlling many specific key production segments in order to keep the command of the world economy.
Just to give you an example, i lived for 6 years in a south american country, that was from 1982 to 1988. I saw american products and american cars everywhere, i went to school in a yellow school bus, had the same tech you guys had (playing pacman on the atari 2600 :cool:), i even learned how to use a mac, just to say i saw the extent of the US culture had taken control of the native/national society, in not only economical aspects but also in some cultural aspects too. When i came back to Europe, the place i was born, nothing of this existed but it was growing everyday and still does today. First McDonalds was opened here in 1991, kind of late don't you think ? Today there are more than 80 in the whole contry. First American car sold here was the Cherookee in 1995, just ot tell you such economical conquest happens in a very dynamic way, through time and sometimes in a subtile maner but you can really feel it happening. It asfixiates an open but small culture like ours, look at our mediterranic diet, we have a 50% increase in heart desieases thanks to this change in our diet over the last 10 years. This is just an example but it serves its purpose to explain that such politics are made thanks to some expantionist and monopolistic measures on the behalf of a better and stronger US economy. Is it good to me and others like myself ? I don't think so.

Quote:

Because US citizens live in a better economy than some other countries means they live in dreamland? It means they never suffer?




That's the paradox. You do live in a better economy than other countries, most western countries do but it's a materialistic dreamland created thanks to 3rd world countries resources which the US control and exploit economically, if is not done directly, it is done indirectly by polictics (and its control by) puppet governments. Is this the dreamland you want ? 5% of the population exploiting the 95% that's left ?
I don't get it when you say "they never suffer", what do you mean, the US ? What i know is the world is suffering thanks to US neo-colonialist politics.


Please don't get me wrong, i don't hate americans or anything like that, it goes against what i believe in life. I've already met some americans and most i've met were interesting and intelligent people, i know plenty of americans right here in the shroomery and they are awesome people. See that's what i feel about americans and america, you are capable of the most incredible and good things manking has ever achieved but you are also capable of the most awfull and obscure actions. What more can i say, fuck your government and take a good hold on your life, not on Janets tits.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: America [Re: ]
    #2320924 - 02/10/04 07:17 PM (19 years, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

If another country were to be the "big gun" do you think the situation on this planet would be any better? I certainly don't.




Agreed. What if the USSR had taken over the world ? We wouldn't be here today but that's not my point.
Today political and economical situation is the result of the consolidation of the US politics after the communist block fall. Who's left to face the US in the most important issues ? No one.
My point is, mankind is achieving a new consciousness which is much more aware and critic, that is because we have many ways to get information. But many of this information is filtered through the media, so i agree with Seuss and his criticism towards the media. I'm capable of watching CNN over here and the picture i see is opportunistic and biased info. That's how i see the mind of most of the american population, alienated, be it through the movies or the TV. Remember we act and behave according to what our senses obtain, at the end, the vision of our reality is made up by this images and voices entering our heads everyday. I see it as the final concept of mind control, it looks like we are free but we're not or at least we don't have full control of our freedom because our behavior, the expression of our mind has already been set.

Quote:

Man is brutal and savage and no political solution of earth will ever fix that problem.




Politics is just an ordered confrontation of interests. Confrontation and interests are not known to fix anything or if they do, the benefit is only for a few.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: America [Re: MAIA]
    #2321249 - 02/10/04 10:16 PM (19 years, 2 hours ago)

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OfflineAldous
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2321276 - 02/10/04 10:23 PM (19 years, 2 hours ago)

To sum up what Maia explained to you in a mere one-liner you're familiar with, viaggio:

when you build maybe one ramshackle bridge in a lifetime, and suck way more than a thousand cocks, don't expect to be remembered as a bridge-builder :wink:


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: America [Re: Aldous]
    #2321598 - 02/10/04 11:54 PM (19 years, 1 hour ago)

America is my home, and I am proud.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2323329 - 02/11/04 03:26 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, we got that Viaggio, but what are you proud of?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

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OfflineViaggio
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Re: America [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2323370 - 02/11/04 04:04 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I am proud of so much, I wouldn't know where to begin...my quality of life, my freedoms. They're protected.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2323401 - 02/11/04 04:53 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

i hope you're not proud of the media...because it really is the #1 problem right now.

the best way to change america is to educate americans.
media is quickest way to do that, and american media is keeping people ignorant.
also, your "protected freedoms" are largely superficial.

to reiterate what MAIA said...
Quote:

Remember we act and behave according to what our senses obtain, at the end, the vision of our reality is made up by this images and voices entering our heads everyday. I see it as the final concept of mind control, it looks like we are free but we're not or at least we don't have full control of our freedom because our behavior, the expression of our mind has already been set.




so you may have your "freedoms", but look at the rest of the world....



in my eyes america is anything but a proud nation. just think about the actual land this country is founded on...who lived here before we did?
and where do they live now?
it sickens me.



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OfflineFrog
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Re: America [Re: Clean]
    #2323584 - 02/11/04 06:39 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I don't like that argument "we stole the land from the Indians so everything is wrong with us".

But anyways, I would still rather be born here than be born in almost any other country in the world. Just because there are some things wrong with this country doesn't mean that America is bad as a whole.

And if it can be fixed, why isn't someone fixing it? Is everyone too complacent? Or is it just not bad enough for anyone to do anything about it?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePed
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Re: America [Re: Clean]
    #2323638 - 02/11/04 06:59 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Karl Marx predicted that democracy could not function in conjunction with capitalism. He predicted during his years that the growth of capitalism would gradully condense more and more of the wealth, resources, and control into fewer and fewer hands, until political, economical, and market diversity had become so scarce that the democratic process had become entirely corrupt. We can see that this is what has happened.

Personally, I'm quite glad that my citizenship is not attributed to such a nation. Though, I see no reason for hatred of the American people or their government. I think it is fairly likely that had I been the one born in Texas to George Bush Senior, I would have entered a career in politices, thinking it appropriate to dominate, exploite, divide, conquer, and spread war and terror for my own personal gain the way George Bush Junior has done. No doubt, my life would be one long accumulation of terrible karma. George Bush Junior is an unfortunate man. If we are to be honest with ourselves, we must admit that it could be any one of us. It is the conditioning of George Bush Junior that has ushered him into the place he is, and it is only our conditioning that makes him our ethical opponent. Just as he had the potential to use his life for the benefit of all living beings, we had equal potential to use our lives for immeasurable self-focus, death and destruction.

This is not to say we are not in control of our own lives, or that people such as George W Bush should be absolved of their crimes. It is our job to break from unhealthy conditioning. Though, we should recognize that at his heart, George W Bush is not an evil man. Rather than hatred for him, we should have a sad recognition of his actions. How wonderful it would be if George W Bush encountered the horrors of his actions, and resolved to change himself and the world for the better. What an inspiration that would be to us all. May he find happiness that is free from suffering, in this life or his next, and may he lead every living being to that ground.


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2323642 - 02/11/04 07:00 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You are content, but many others are not, and regardless of how the "system" is now, there will have to be people who look out for it, and there will be a divide for those who persue it for their own self interest, and those who persue it for the benefit of all.

As america stands right now, i think there is a big difference between those who would wish to premote their own self interest, and the interest of the american people.

I would hope for a much more tolerant america, but that will come only as fast as people themselves can accept various beliefs, religions, and behaviors... like smoking weed or picking psychadelic mushrooms.

Do you think that picking psychoactive mushrooms should be illegal, that people should be jailed for such a thing? My point is, people shouldnt be content in thinking everything is wonderful! When their is much to do. Im not trying to persuade you or anything, just wanted to see what you thought of that issue, seeing as how this is a mushroom community...


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What?


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: America [Re: Ped]
    #2323694 - 02/11/04 07:19 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I have thought about this before too, how it must suck to be raised to think the way you are, about life and about people, only to fool yourself into buying into all of it. People are just as much to blame for electing him.

Dont get me wrong on this next part, but the point is the fact of the people. In germany in WW2 Hitler himself did not kill 6 million jews, it was the SS soldiers, it was the gustapo, and it was also the Jews who turned against one another to escape the death of Nazi germany. People themselves are as much to blame for the kind of government we have, after all it was intended for people to check the government.

But like you said ped, i wonder if democracy is now undermined by capitalism.

Take the media for example, or dick cheney and the whole haliburton in iraq issue. I wish i still had my history book from last year, its a political ad in the early 20th century with all the major industrial giants, like steel and oil, blockign the doors of congress, Overshadowing the politicians inside.

Im not a big fan of nationalism, but there are a lot of people here who i have come to know as my friends and neighbors, and its not just about the government. But about the cultural, ethnic, social situation that america stands for. Although bad in some areas, it is good in others.


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What?


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: America [Re: Frog]
    #2323829 - 02/11/04 08:06 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
But anyways, I would still rather be born here than be born in almost any other country in the world.




I wouldn't want to have been born in America in favour of being born in Belgium, as I was. This has nothing to do with national pride, because I don't have any. I don't subscribe to borders of land and a flag covering a supposed "people".

Reasons I like Belgium (the way it's run by the government) better than the U.S.:

- a lot less censorship (of political opinions, of music video's, etc). I hardly ever notice censorship here, if it happens at all.
- signature of the declaration of human rights
- a welfare system that covers EVERY member of society, because health is a basic right, with the same prices for everyone.
- more than two political parties: this has its advantages and its problems, but on the whole it allows the people to voice their opinion better
- a social system that allows women to take 14 weeks off when they are about to give birth or have just given birth, allows you to survive if you're temporarily unemployed, allows you to pay all the bills with one job and decent hours, entitles you to go on strike if you and your fellow workers don't agree with what the people running your workplace think, and more.
- news bulletins that don't focus on murder and crime, but on global and national issues
- Politicians that don't mention God in their speeches (true seperation of the state and religion) and, while tending to their own career needs of course, try to improve the situation for the population.
- Laws that allow an adult to posess 3 grams of grass, to drink at the age of 16 and to drive at the age of 18 (as opposed to the other way around).
- Lower gun-related murders (check Bowling for Columbine by Michael Moore on that one).
- Privacy laws

We do have a high tax rate, there's governmental problems between the Dutch speaking North and the French speaking South, there's as much hypocrisy and corruption as in any other nation, and probably some more that I forgot.
So basically it's not perfect, I'll be the last one to claim it is, but I like it a heck of a lot better, and I think living here allows me to be freeer than I'd be in the U.S.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2324089 - 02/11/04 09:27 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

> my freedoms. They're protected.

Ah yes... our protected freedoms...

... such as the freedom to die when one is ready. Ooops.. can't do that.
... such as the freedom to have wild sex. Ooops.. can't do that in some states.
... such as the freedom to grow certain plants. Ooops... can't do that.
... such as the freedom to own land. Ooops... not unless you can pay the taxes.
... such as the freedom of religon. Ooops... not unless we approve it. No DMT or peyote or cannabis for you.
... such as the freedom of ... shall I continue?

Damn, I am glad I have Bush and Ashcroft looking out for my better intrests... protecting my freedoms. If it weren't for them, people wouldn't be spending life in prison for thinking about producing LSD. (Thinking about... not actually doing anything! And yes, it is LIFE in prison.)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: America [Re: Clean]
    #2324103 - 02/11/04 09:32 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

> i hope you're not proud of the media...because it really is the #1 problem right now

Whenever I travel to Europe, there is usually one thing, and one thing only on TV... more often than not they are playing reruns of the Jerry Springer Show. Imagine an entire world that thinks that the typical American is just like the trailor trash they show on that stupid program. No wonder the world has a skewed view of America.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: America [Re: Seuss]
    #2324242 - 02/11/04 10:05 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

First you say "Imagine an entire world that thinks..." and then you use that to explain why the world has a skewed view of America. :wtf:

So the last time you travelled to Europe was three years ago or something? Because I haven't seen that show in a long damn time. A lot of shows (in Belgium at least can't really speak for the rest of Europe, because I haven't stayed in other countries long enough to get a clear picture on what's on tv) are reruns of American shows, but those aren't only circus freak shows. You have shows like Friends, The Simpsons, Futurama, 24, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, That 70s show, and on the other hand you have "reality shows" like Joe Millionaire and Temptation Island.
I use none of them to base my view of average Americans on, after all, it's all fiction. Candidates in Joe Millionaire of Temptation Island don't really count as average people, because if you see the Belgian version, the candidates aren't representative either.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: America [Re: Ped]
    #2325572 - 02/12/04 03:47 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Karl Marx predicted that democracy could not function in conjunction with capitalism. He predicted during his years that the growth of capitalism would gradully condense more and more of the wealth, resources, and control into fewer and fewer hands, until political, economical, and market diversity had become so scarce that the democratic process had become entirely corrupt. We can see that this is what has happened.

I hate to admit this...but Ped made a good point  :thumbup:


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2325949 - 02/12/04 03:09 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

> So the last time you travelled to Europe was three years ago or something?

Actually, yes.  It was during the spy plane in china thing right after bush got elected.  :smile:


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: America [Re: Seuss]
    #2325970 - 02/12/04 03:45 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Imagine the Leader of China Contacting the President of the United States over the "spy plane" issue....

"FINDERS KEEPERS LOOSERS WEEPERS"


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get it all together get like birds of a feather


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: America [Re: Seuss]
    #2326035 - 02/12/04 05:01 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

more often than not they are playing reruns of the Jerry Springer Show




I think that shows like Sopranos or 6 feet under are much more popular here. Do you think they give a better picture of America?

One thing that positively surprised me when I went to America was that I didn't feel like a stranger and I felt great in the mix of people, races and cultures around me. Maybe it's just another generalization, but that was my quick impression. It might be the same in the bigger cities of Europe, but not where I live.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2326454 - 02/12/04 08:09 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Karl Marx predicted that democracy could not function in conjunction with capitalism. He predicted during his years that the growth of capitalism would gradully condense more and more of the wealth, resources, and control into fewer and fewer hands, until political, economical, and market diversity had become so scarce that the democratic process had become entirely corrupt. We can see that this is what has happened.




marx was definitely was right about the above...unfortunately..his conjecture that such conditions inevitably provoke an armed revolution was dead wrong..and for reasons that are not at all difficult to fathom either ..the oppressor class could just as easily be viewed by their subjects as "biologically superior" and/or as role models..and not a corrupt regime to be overthrown...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: America [Re: Seuss]
    #2326862 - 02/12/04 09:52 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I don't base my opinion on Jerry Springer  :wink:...

1. We do have an independent/non-commercial tv station which makes documantaries and reportages about America. I also watch NBC, CNN, BCC and internet to get information about America.

2.  I've been in America for 4weeks. My dad has been there many times and most of my friends have been in America. They all get the same view of the GENERAL American culture, a culture that is totally different from our culture: Full of pride, patriotism, very conservative, God, not tolerant and a non-realistic view of the world.


Alan Stone made some good points. Belgium and the Netherlands are not very different:

I don't subscribe to borders of land and a flag covering a supposed "people".
I totally agree with that. I'm only nationalistic if it's about sports. Equality is very important for me, so is liberty!

Reasons I like Holland (the way it's run by the government) better than the U.S.:
- No death penalty and no jury jurisdiction.
- All drugs are legal to use(not to possess), marijuana and mushrooms are sold in shops. Our government is(was :frown:) pragmatic.
- A social system that makes sure everyone can live a normal life. (Rich people pay more(%) tax. Income tax is around 40%)
-  A welfare system that covers EVERY member of society. Basic insurances for everyone.
- Education on all levels for everyone, not dependent of rich parents.
- Gay marriage is legal
- Abortion is legal
- Euthanasia is legal in some cases
- Politics and religion separated.
- Privacy laws
- No DEA  :smile:


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OfflineFlusH
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Re: America [Re: trendal]
    #2326949 - 02/12/04 10:11 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

It doesn't look so great from this side of the boarder




I second this....

and the scarry thing is that sitting on the desk in the white house there probably is an Absorb Canada button


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