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OfflineFrog
Warrior
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: America [Re: Clean]
    #2323584 - 02/11/04 09:39 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I don't like that argument "we stole the land from the Indians so everything is wrong with us".

But anyways, I would still rather be born here than be born in almost any other country in the world. Just because there are some things wrong with this country doesn't mean that America is bad as a whole.

And if it can be fixed, why isn't someone fixing it? Is everyone too complacent? Or is it just not bad enough for anyone to do anything about it?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflinePed
Interested In Your Brain
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Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 5,494
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Re: America [Re: Clean]
    #2323638 - 02/11/04 09:59 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Karl Marx predicted that democracy could not function in conjunction with capitalism. He predicted during his years that the growth of capitalism would gradully condense more and more of the wealth, resources, and control into fewer and fewer hands, until political, economical, and market diversity had become so scarce that the democratic process had become entirely corrupt. We can see that this is what has happened.

Personally, I'm quite glad that my citizenship is not attributed to such a nation. Though, I see no reason for hatred of the American people or their government. I think it is fairly likely that had I been the one born in Texas to George Bush Senior, I would have entered a career in politices, thinking it appropriate to dominate, exploite, divide, conquer, and spread war and terror for my own personal gain the way George Bush Junior has done. No doubt, my life would be one long accumulation of terrible karma. George Bush Junior is an unfortunate man. If we are to be honest with ourselves, we must admit that it could be any one of us. It is the conditioning of George Bush Junior that has ushered him into the place he is, and it is only our conditioning that makes him our ethical opponent. Just as he had the potential to use his life for the benefit of all living beings, we had equal potential to use our lives for immeasurable self-focus, death and destruction.

This is not to say we are not in control of our own lives, or that people such as George W Bush should be absolved of their crimes. It is our job to break from unhealthy conditioning. Though, we should recognize that at his heart, George W Bush is not an evil man. Rather than hatred for him, we should have a sad recognition of his actions. How wonderful it would be if George W Bush encountered the horrors of his actions, and resolved to change himself and the world for the better. What an inspiration that would be to us all. May he find happiness that is free from suffering, in this life or his next, and may he lead every living being to that ground.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2323642 - 02/11/04 10:00 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

You are content, but many others are not, and regardless of how the "system" is now, there will have to be people who look out for it, and there will be a divide for those who persue it for their own self interest, and those who persue it for the benefit of all.

As america stands right now, i think there is a big difference between those who would wish to premote their own self interest, and the interest of the american people.

I would hope for a much more tolerant america, but that will come only as fast as people themselves can accept various beliefs, religions, and behaviors... like smoking weed or picking psychadelic mushrooms.

Do you think that picking psychoactive mushrooms should be illegal, that people should be jailed for such a thing? My point is, people shouldnt be content in thinking everything is wonderful! When their is much to do. Im not trying to persuade you or anything, just wanted to see what you thought of that issue, seeing as how this is a mushroom community...


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What?

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: America [Re: Ped]
    #2323694 - 02/11/04 10:19 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I have thought about this before too, how it must suck to be raised to think the way you are, about life and about people, only to fool yourself into buying into all of it. People are just as much to blame for electing him.

Dont get me wrong on this next part, but the point is the fact of the people. In germany in WW2 Hitler himself did not kill 6 million jews, it was the SS soldiers, it was the gustapo, and it was also the Jews who turned against one another to escape the death of Nazi germany. People themselves are as much to blame for the kind of government we have, after all it was intended for people to check the government.

But like you said ped, i wonder if democracy is now undermined by capitalism.

Take the media for example, or dick cheney and the whole haliburton in iraq issue. I wish i still had my history book from last year, its a political ad in the early 20th century with all the major industrial giants, like steel and oil, blockign the doors of congress, Overshadowing the politicians inside.

Im not a big fan of nationalism, but there are a lot of people here who i have come to know as my friends and neighbors, and its not just about the government. But about the cultural, ethnic, social situation that america stands for. Although bad in some areas, it is good in others.


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What?

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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
Re: America [Re: Frog]
    #2323829 - 02/11/04 11:06 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
But anyways, I would still rather be born here than be born in almost any other country in the world.




I wouldn't want to have been born in America in favour of being born in Belgium, as I was. This has nothing to do with national pride, because I don't have any. I don't subscribe to borders of land and a flag covering a supposed "people".

Reasons I like Belgium (the way it's run by the government) better than the U.S.:

- a lot less censorship (of political opinions, of music video's, etc). I hardly ever notice censorship here, if it happens at all.
- signature of the declaration of human rights
- a welfare system that covers EVERY member of society, because health is a basic right, with the same prices for everyone.
- more than two political parties: this has its advantages and its problems, but on the whole it allows the people to voice their opinion better
- a social system that allows women to take 14 weeks off when they are about to give birth or have just given birth, allows you to survive if you're temporarily unemployed, allows you to pay all the bills with one job and decent hours, entitles you to go on strike if you and your fellow workers don't agree with what the people running your workplace think, and more.
- news bulletins that don't focus on murder and crime, but on global and national issues
- Politicians that don't mention God in their speeches (true seperation of the state and religion) and, while tending to their own career needs of course, try to improve the situation for the population.
- Laws that allow an adult to posess 3 grams of grass, to drink at the age of 16 and to drive at the age of 18 (as opposed to the other way around).
- Lower gun-related murders (check Bowling for Columbine by Michael Moore on that one).
- Privacy laws

We do have a high tax rate, there's governmental problems between the Dutch speaking North and the French speaking South, there's as much hypocrisy and corruption as in any other nation, and probably some more that I forgot.
So basically it's not perfect, I'll be the last one to claim it is, but I like it a heck of a lot better, and I think living here allows me to be freeer than I'd be in the U.S.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2324089 - 02/11/04 12:27 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

> my freedoms. They're protected.

Ah yes... our protected freedoms...

... such as the freedom to die when one is ready. Ooops.. can't do that.
... such as the freedom to have wild sex. Ooops.. can't do that in some states.
... such as the freedom to grow certain plants. Ooops... can't do that.
... such as the freedom to own land. Ooops... not unless you can pay the taxes.
... such as the freedom of religon. Ooops... not unless we approve it. No DMT or peyote or cannabis for you.
... such as the freedom of ... shall I continue?

Damn, I am glad I have Bush and Ashcroft looking out for my better intrests... protecting my freedoms. If it weren't for them, people wouldn't be spending life in prison for thinking about producing LSD. (Thinking about... not actually doing anything! And yes, it is LIFE in prison.)


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
Re: America [Re: Clean]
    #2324103 - 02/11/04 12:32 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

> i hope you're not proud of the media...because it really is the #1 problem right now

Whenever I travel to Europe, there is usually one thing, and one thing only on TV... more often than not they are playing reruns of the Jerry Springer Show. Imagine an entire world that thinks that the typical American is just like the trailor trash they show on that stupid program. No wonder the world has a skewed view of America.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
Re: America [Re: Seuss]
    #2324242 - 02/11/04 01:05 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

First you say "Imagine an entire world that thinks..." and then you use that to explain why the world has a skewed view of America. :wtf:

So the last time you travelled to Europe was three years ago or something? Because I haven't seen that show in a long damn time. A lot of shows (in Belgium at least can't really speak for the rest of Europe, because I haven't stayed in other countries long enough to get a clear picture on what's on tv) are reruns of American shows, but those aren't only circus freak shows. You have shows like Friends, The Simpsons, Futurama, 24, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, That 70s show, and on the other hand you have "reality shows" like Joe Millionaire and Temptation Island.
I use none of them to base my view of average Americans on, after all, it's all fiction. Candidates in Joe Millionaire of Temptation Island don't really count as average people, because if you see the Belgian version, the candidates aren't representative either.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: America [Re: Ped]
    #2325572 - 02/11/04 06:47 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Karl Marx predicted that democracy could not function in conjunction with capitalism. He predicted during his years that the growth of capitalism would gradully condense more and more of the wealth, resources, and control into fewer and fewer hands, until political, economical, and market diversity had become so scarce that the democratic process had become entirely corrupt. We can see that this is what has happened.

I hate to admit this...but Ped made a good point  :thumbup:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2325949 - 02/12/04 06:09 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

> So the last time you travelled to Europe was three years ago or something?

Actually, yes.  It was during the spy plane in china thing right after bush got elected.  :smile:


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineSole_Worthy
Stranger

Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 463
Loc: over here
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: America [Re: Seuss]
    #2325970 - 02/12/04 06:45 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Imagine the Leader of China Contacting the President of the United States over the "spy plane" issue....

"FINDERS KEEPERS LOOSERS WEEPERS"


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get it all together get like birds of a feather

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Offlinezeronio
Stranger
Male

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: America [Re: Seuss]
    #2326035 - 02/12/04 08:01 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

more often than not they are playing reruns of the Jerry Springer Show




I think that shows like Sopranos or 6 feet under are much more popular here. Do you think they give a better picture of America?

One thing that positively surprised me when I went to America was that I didn't feel like a stranger and I felt great in the mix of people, races and cultures around me. Maybe it's just another generalization, but that was my quick impression. It might be the same in the bigger cities of Europe, but not where I live.

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: America [Re: Viaggio]
    #2326454 - 02/12/04 11:09 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Karl Marx predicted that democracy could not function in conjunction with capitalism. He predicted during his years that the growth of capitalism would gradully condense more and more of the wealth, resources, and control into fewer and fewer hands, until political, economical, and market diversity had become so scarce that the democratic process had become entirely corrupt. We can see that this is what has happened.




marx was definitely was right about the above...unfortunately..his conjecture that such conditions inevitably provoke an armed revolution was dead wrong..and for reasons that are not at all difficult to fathom either ..the oppressor class could just as easily be viewed by their subjects as "biologically superior" and/or as role models..and not a corrupt regime to be overthrown...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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OfflineAnnom
※※※※※※
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Registered: 12/22/02
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
Re: America [Re: Seuss]
    #2326862 - 02/12/04 12:52 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I don't base my opinion on Jerry Springer  :wink:...

1. We do have an independent/non-commercial tv station which makes documantaries and reportages about America. I also watch NBC, CNN, BCC and internet to get information about America.

2.  I've been in America for 4weeks. My dad has been there many times and most of my friends have been in America. They all get the same view of the GENERAL American culture, a culture that is totally different from our culture: Full of pride, patriotism, very conservative, God, not tolerant and a non-realistic view of the world.


Alan Stone made some good points. Belgium and the Netherlands are not very different:

I don't subscribe to borders of land and a flag covering a supposed "people".
I totally agree with that. I'm only nationalistic if it's about sports. Equality is very important for me, so is liberty!

Reasons I like Holland (the way it's run by the government) better than the U.S.:
- No death penalty and no jury jurisdiction.
- All drugs are legal to use(not to possess), marijuana and mushrooms are sold in shops. Our government is(was :frown:) pragmatic.
- A social system that makes sure everyone can live a normal life. (Rich people pay more(%) tax. Income tax is around 40%)
-  A welfare system that covers EVERY member of society. Basic insurances for everyone.
- Education on all levels for everyone, not dependent of rich parents.
- Gay marriage is legal
- Abortion is legal
- Euthanasia is legal in some cases
- Politics and religion separated.
- Privacy laws
- No DEA  :smile:

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OfflineFlusH
Random person on Internet

Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 2,911
Loc: Bizzaro World
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
Re: America [Re: trendal]
    #2326949 - 02/12/04 01:11 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

It doesn't look so great from this side of the boarder




I second this....

and the scarry thing is that sitting on the desk in the white house there probably is an Absorb Canada button


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