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InvisibleLadysKnight
Hello Ladies
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Registered: 10/09/15
Posts: 1,655
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo]
    #28591283 - 12/20/23 12:03 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

oxo said:
When you vent your PC, can you easily see steam in any lighting / background (not in the dark of course)?



Yes.

Your manual says:
12. Place the pressure regulator on the vent pipe. If the heat was reduced for exhausting, adjust it back to
a high setting and heat the canner. As pressure develops in the canner, the air vent/cover lock will lift
and lock the cover on the canner body.

You're supposed to do the venting before you put the regulator on the vent pipe. Maybe this is the problem?


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Invisibleoxo
oxo

Registered: 11/27/22
Posts: 107
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: LadysKnight]
    #28591303 - 12/20/23 12:17 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

LadysKnight said:
Quote:

oxo said:
When you vent your PC, can you easily see steam in any lighting / background (not in the dark of course)?



Yes.

Your manual says:
12. Place the pressure regulator on the vent pipe. If the heat was reduced for exhausting, adjust it back to
a high setting and heat the canner. As pressure develops in the canner, the air vent/cover lock will lift
and lock the cover on the canner body.

You're supposed to do the venting before you put the regulator on the vent pipe. Maybe this is the problem?




I'm heating until lock pops up, venting for a period of time, then placing the regulator on the valve until it gets up to 15psi, then lowering the heat to medium range, and the regulator rocks.


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
Actual Retard
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Registered: 04/01/22
Posts: 11,144
Loc: Stables
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo]
    #28591316 - 12/20/23 12:21 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Yes, but you need to see steam escaping as well

Also, how much water are you putting in there? 2Q?


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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OnlineRockinRobot
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Registered: 12/08/22
Posts: 862
Last seen: 5 minutes, 38 seconds
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo]
    #28591321 - 12/20/23 12:23 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

oxo said:
Quote:

LadysKnight said:
Quote:

oxo said:
When you vent your PC, can you easily see steam in any lighting / background (not in the dark of course)?



Yes.

Your manual says:
12. Place the pressure regulator on the vent pipe. If the heat was reduced for exhausting, adjust it back to
a high setting and heat the canner. As pressure develops in the canner, the air vent/cover lock will lift
and lock the cover on the canner body.

You're supposed to do the venting before you put the regulator on the vent pipe. Maybe this is the problem?




I'm heating until lock pops up, venting for a period of time, then placing the regulator on the valve until it gets up to 15psi, then lowering the heat to medium range, and the regulator rocks.




That's exactly how I run mine. Unlike you though I see a steady stream of steam after about 5 min or so that will occasionally stutter from time to time as pockets of air escape. I usually vent a full 15 minutes after lock pops up. That's why I asked earlier how much Water you are using.


Edited by RockinRobot (12/20/23 12:23 PM)


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Invisibleoxo
oxo

Registered: 11/27/22
Posts: 107
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28591350 - 12/20/23 12:42 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Yes, but you need to see steam escaping as well

Also, how much water are you putting in there? 2Q?



I do understand that steam should be visible, which I struggle to see, and I suspect is what is leading to contamination in the early stages of cultivation.

I do think you might be onto something with the amount of water. The manual calls for 3 qt hot water. Over many cooks and using different spacers, I drifted away from this instruction.

I'm using this trivet and spacer:



And filling the inside of the PC with cold water to just below the level of the trivet.


I just did the same, then measured the resulting amount of water, which came to 4q of cold water, which is very different than the 3q of hot water the manual calls for. So not only is it more mass of water to heat up, it is also having to start from roughly 50F water temp, which explains why I'm not seeing steam in a reasonable amount of time.

Unfortunately I don't have hot water (yet) in my grow space, so I'll have to pre-heat it manually. I'll hypothesize for now that this is the main cause of the contamination issues I've been having (too much water at the wrong temp -> not venting properly -> not sterilizing), and dial in my PC technique to 3qt hot water, and at least 10min visible steam venting.

Thanks for sticking with me on this. It's been a real bummer this year, but I'm trying to persevere and figure this out. I guess another lesson learned is to slow down and pay more attention to detail. I tend to rush through things for "efficiency" sake, which obviously is leading to the opposite of efficiency.


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Offliner0kovski
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Registered: 09/24/23
Posts: 48
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo]
    #28591357 - 12/20/23 12:45 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Transfer or discard?



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OnlineRockinRobot
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Registered: 12/08/22
Posts: 862
Last seen: 5 minutes, 38 seconds
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo] * 1
    #28591362 - 12/20/23 12:46 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

starting with hot or cold water shouldn't make a difference.

When I run my PC I use 4qts water. I leave the lid off until the water is at a rolling boil. Most times the lock will pop up as soon as I put the lid on like this. Then I vent for minimum 10 but usually 15 minutes.


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Registered: 04/01/22
Posts: 11,144
Loc: Stables
Last seen: 24 minutes, 23 seconds
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: RockinRobot]
    #28591376 - 12/20/23 12:57 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Doing whatever you gotta to get it vented properly will solve your problems.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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OfflineGastronomicus
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Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,727
Last seen: 1 day, 16 hours
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: r0kovski] * 1
    #28591392 - 12/20/23 01:07 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

r0kovski said:
Transfer or discard?






Hard to see but looks good, I'd say transfer


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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Offlinecrazydaydreamer
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Registered: 12/12/23
Posts: 31
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #28591783 - 12/20/23 06:28 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)




PE Mycelium or mold? First grow.

Thank you


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InvisibleWay
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: crazydaydreamer] * 1
    #28591922 - 12/20/23 08:02 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Pretty blurry and wet so I can't be 100%.
Considering you "double inoculated" vendor bags with what I assume was an untested spore syringe and LC, I have little hope it is actual healthy growth but it does look like mycelium :shrug:


--------------------

That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.


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Offlinecrazydaydreamer
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Registered: 12/12/23
Posts: 31
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Way]
    #28591926 - 12/20/23 08:04 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

It looks pretty and white so far.


--------------------




“…psilocybin can offer a means to reconnect to our true nature—our authentic self—and thereby help find meaning in our lives.”


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OfflinePBJ710
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Registered: 07/05/19
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: crazydaydreamer] * 1
    #28591931 - 12/20/23 08:07 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

The amount of condensation in the bags screams contam to me.  I would be surprised if that's actually healthy growth.


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Offlinecrazydaydreamer
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Registered: 12/12/23
Posts: 31
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: PBJ710]
    #28592500 - 12/21/23 08:56 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Double injecting caused 7cc of fluid which is too much for a 3lb bag.

So far so good.


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OnlineRockinRobot
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Registered: 12/08/22
Posts: 862
Last seen: 5 minutes, 38 seconds
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: crazydaydreamer]
    #28592503 - 12/21/23 08:57 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

crazydaydreamer said:
Double injecting caused 7cc of fluid which is too much for a 3lb bag.

So far so good.




I use 10CC in a Qt Jar with no issues so 7cc in a 3lb bag is nothing.


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Offlinecrazydaydreamer
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Registered: 12/12/23
Posts: 31
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: RockinRobot]
    #28592602 - 12/21/23 10:31 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

You dont get crazy humidity when its closed?


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OnlineRockinRobot
Stranger


Registered: 12/08/22
Posts: 862
Last seen: 5 minutes, 38 seconds
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: crazydaydreamer]
    #28592607 - 12/21/23 10:33 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

crazydaydreamer said:
You dont get crazy humidity when its closed?





Not with clean LC. I find the grain soaks up any excess liquid within 24 hours. I do shake it after inoculating and the next day as well to make sure no LC is left sitting on the bottom.


Edited by RockinRobot (12/21/23 10:35 AM)


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Invisibleoxo
oxo

Registered: 11/27/22
Posts: 107
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo]
    #28592824 - 12/21/23 02:25 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

oxo said:
Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Yes, but you need to see steam escaping as well

Also, how much water are you putting in there? 2Q?



I do understand that steam should be visible, which I struggle to see, and I suspect is what is leading to contamination in the early stages of cultivation.

I do think you might be onto something with the amount of water. The manual calls for 3 qt hot water. Over many cooks and using different spacers, I drifted away from this instruction.

I'm using this trivet and spacer:



And filling the inside of the PC with cold water to just below the level of the trivet.


I just did the same, then measured the resulting amount of water, which came to 4q of cold water, which is very different than the 3q of hot water the manual calls for. So not only is it more mass of water to heat up, it is also having to start from roughly 50F water temp, which explains why I'm not seeing steam in a reasonable amount of time.

Unfortunately I don't have hot water (yet) in my grow space, so I'll have to pre-heat it manually. I'll hypothesize for now that this is the main cause of the contamination issues I've been having (too much water at the wrong temp -> not venting properly -> not sterilizing), and dial in my PC technique to 3qt hot water, and at least 10min visible steam venting.

Thanks for sticking with me on this. It's been a real bummer this year, but I'm trying to persevere and figure this out. I guess another lesson learned is to slow down and pay more attention to detail. I tend to rush through things for "efficiency" sake, which obviously is leading to the opposite of efficiency.



Last night it occurred to me that 3qt hot vs 4qt cold water shouldn't matter, since it is boiling by the time the lock pops up, regardless of the starting temperature, so the venting issue must have a different cause. I tested the PC today by using 3qt cold water, heated it to 160F before closing the lid, cooktop set to 575F/Max, and the lock popped up after 6 minutes. I watched it for 34 minutes until I saw some wisps of steam, and set the timer for 10 minutes for venting. During this time, I noticed the steam would stop, and there would be sputtering. Thinking that the high heat was causing liquid in the valve to interfere with clear steam venting, I ultimately turned down the cooktop from 575F/Max to 275F/Medium. After 10 minutes, (roughly 50 minutes of heating w/o the regulator) I placed the regulator (86.15g, 93.92 w/ coins) on the valve, and per the manual increase to max heat. Over the next 20 minutes I dialed in the heat setting to maintain 15-16psi and proper regulator "jiggle". I ran it at pressure for 90 minutes, measured the remaining water (3.5 cups left, roughly 2qt water lost during venting and cooking).

After spending time observing and dialing in heat, I think the high heat during venting was causing too much sputtering which was interfering with seeing a good cone of solid steam. My takeaway from this was to dial in the heat better. I'll try doing some agar and grain runs using this dialed-in method and see if contamination rates improve.

Is there any risk to increasing PC times moderately, to ensure sterilization given the variables involved? So for a 90min grain cook at 16psi, do like 120min, and for agar, instead of say 45min, do 60 min?


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OfflineMycoSnailCarl
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Registered: 11/22/23
Posts: 181
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: RockinRobot]
    #28593799 - 12/22/23 08:07 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

RockinRobot said:
Quote:

crazydaydreamer said:
Double injecting caused 7cc of fluid which is too much for a 3lb bag.

So far so good.




I use 10CC in a Qt Jar with no issues so 7cc in a 3lb bag is nothing.




Goddamn those jars must colonize fast


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OnlineRockinRobot
Stranger


Registered: 12/08/22
Posts: 862
Last seen: 5 minutes, 38 seconds
Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: MycoSnailCarl]
    #28593811 - 12/22/23 08:16 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

MycoSnailCarl said:
Quote:

RockinRobot said:
Quote:

crazydaydreamer said:
Double injecting caused 7cc of fluid which is too much for a 3lb bag.

So far so good.




I use 10CC in a Qt Jar with no issues so 7cc in a 3lb bag is nothing.




Goddamn those jars must colonize fast




10 Days most times with a shake on day 5.

Inoculated 11/17 Picture taken 11/26 Nats a little bacterial





Edited by RockinRobot (12/22/23 08:19 AM)


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