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Offliner0kovski
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Herman123]
    #28589801 - 12/19/23 12:56 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Wbs jars fluffy on top and diferent concentration of colonisation, more pale.








Send it or toss away? From LC, tested on agar. I dont know how to describe smell from one jar, maybe little sweety,bacterial?


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: r0kovski] * 1
    #28589812 - 12/19/23 01:02 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

I'd toss them sorry. Looks like contamination.

If the LC tested clean the issue is your technique. More practice.


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Invisibleoxo
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Nichrome]
    #28590972 - 12/20/23 07:50 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)



- BRF+Verm, Verm top layer > 8oz tall jars > PC 15psi 90min, 15min+ venting
- happening with both MSS and LC inoculations (in separate jars), in SAB via injection port
- appears to be Trich, spots around surface, not just under the injection port
- 7 out of 12 jars are like this after 10 days
- I suspect Trich spores got through micropore tape or PC technique is faulty
- I've had the same problem with clean LC jars that eventually got Trich, same lids

I've been dealing with a lot of airborne contamination in my space, and trying to get it under control. Any help is appreciated.


Edited by oxo (12/20/23 07:58 AM)


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo]
    #28591011 - 12/20/23 08:36 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Are you heating your needle to red hot? Injection ports are 100% unnecessary for PF tek. I’d make some with an open hole, no filter, and put a red hot needle into your medium.


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A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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Invisibleoxo
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28591071 - 12/20/23 09:20 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Are you heating your needle to red hot? Injection ports are 100% unnecessary for PF tek. I’d make some with an open hole, no filter, and put a red hot needle into your medium.



Needle glowing orange, just before luer melts. Contamination is happening the whole way around the jar, not just the side where the needle went.

Any thoughts on the size of the hole I'm using for FAE, and micropore tape as filter?


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo]
    #28591078 - 12/20/23 09:25 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

1/4” open holes are perfectly fine for PF tek. Micropore tape can be a useful tool if you have a gnat problem, but if not then you can just leave them open. Injection ports are a waste of time and should be removed; that’s just another vector to contend with.

If you’re venting for 15 minutes and PCing for 90 minutes at 15+ psi, your substrate should be sterile.

Trich spores aren’t getting through the tape and then a whole layer of dry vermiculite. Vermiculite alone is enough to stop things from getting in.

Unless you’re doing something you haven’t listed it feels like an inoculation issue.

I’m seeing some cracks in the cake. Are you jostling them?


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A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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InvisibleWyoMX
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo]
    #28591084 - 12/20/23 09:29 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

The hole looks a little big but with micropore tape like that shouldn't be to much of a problem with pftek, I would make them smaller on the next batch of lids if possible though. Did you make the dry verm barrier big enough? Can't really see to well from the pic but looks like there might not be much of a barrier.


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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: WyoMX] * 2
    #28591113 - 12/20/23 09:49 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Looks more like the PC run didn't work. The mold dispersement is too even to be lid or inoculum related


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: LadysKnight]
    #28591132 - 12/20/23 10:04 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

How do you diagnose a PC issue?


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28591138 - 12/20/23 10:12 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Mold is supposed to die at low temps, these jars don't look like they ever saw a PC. :shrug:


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: LadysKnight]
    #28591145 - 12/20/23 10:21 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Yeah I’m inclined to agree. What I mean is, if this was bad PC protocol, how do we figure out the problem? At least in what they wrote it all looks fine to me


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A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28591155 - 12/20/23 10:36 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I agree, it all sounds good but that jar just doesn't go with the description. Looks like some of my early experiments with the microwave.


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Invisibleoxo
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: LadysKnight]
    #28591210 - 12/20/23 11:18 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I've had similar problems with bags as well. I suspected the problem was with venting, since I can barely see steam coming out of the vent. I once waited around 30-40 minutes after the lock popped up (Presto 23qt induction PC), and just some sputtering, very little visible steam. If I try hard I can see little wisps of steam at certain angles/lighting. I wonder if the high heat during pre-pressurization is too high. I have the induction cooktop at its max setting 575F then lower it to 340F once it is up to pressure. At that setting the pressure regulator still rocks.

Regarding the verm layer depth, I mistakenly didn't put enough BRF+verm in the jars, and the verm layer was at least 1"-1.5" in some jars, which affected inoculation. On the LC jars, I can see the LC didn't make it down to the BRF+verm, and is stuck at the verm layer.

Regarding jostling, I admit I am picking them up to inspect them, at least every other day. If they were sterilized and sealed, it's difficult to imagine how that would introduce contamination, but I'm open to ideas. I'm "starting over" recently, and trying to tackle these contamination issues that got out of control earlier this year. I was surprised and a bit demoralized to see these PF jars contaminated.


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OnlineRockinRobot
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo]
    #28591220 - 12/20/23 11:25 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

How much water are you putting in your PC? Presto manual says 3qt minimum and to add an extra if going over 100 minutes. I always get a good stream of steam when venting. I don't use Induction but I start off on High on my glass top stove and keep it there nearly until full pressure.

Also have you added any weight to the Rocker? I have about 5 rare earth magnets on my rocker so it doesn't rock till about 17PSI. Can also take a couple quarters to it.  Once it starts to rock I turn heat down to lik1 1.5-2 and it sits at about 16PSI without rocking at all.


Edited by RockinRobot (12/20/23 11:26 AM)


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: RockinRobot] * 1
    #28591234 - 12/20/23 11:35 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

The fact that you don’t have a constant jet of steam coming out while venting is very suspicious. Improper venting will definitely compromise grows


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A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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Invisibleoxo
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28591248 - 12/20/23 11:42 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
The fact that you don’t have a constant jet of steam coming out while venting is very suspicious. Improper venting will definitely compromise grows



I agree. I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the venting, and compare it to others' experiences, and haven't yet figured it out. I'm afraid of running out of water and warping the PC, which I've done before (for a different reason).


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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28591249 - 12/20/23 11:42 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I haven't used a presto, but it sounds like it's pressurizing instead of venting.

" I once waited around 30-40 minutes after the lock popped up"

My pcs cant lock while venting


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: LadysKnight]
    #28591258 - 12/20/23 11:46 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Can we see the PC?


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A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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Invisibleoxo
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28591264 - 12/20/23 11:52 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Here's
the manual

the canner



the induction cooktop

I should mention that I elevate whatever I'm sterilizing above the water line with a trivet and a spacer. Also, I am not using gaskets in the jar lids, but I tightened them as much as I reasonably could before putting them in the PC.


Edited by oxo (12/20/23 11:58 AM)


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Invisibleoxo
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Re: Recognizing and dealing with contamination [Re: oxo]
    #28591267 - 12/20/23 11:53 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

When you vent your PC, can you easily see steam in any lighting / background (not in the dark of course)?


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