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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Neo-con?
    #2310981 - 02/07/04 06:07 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

The descriptive term "neo-con" gets tossed around here on a regular basis by the more perennially indignant of our frequent posters -- the "neo-coms", I guess they could be called. It's interesting how none of those using the term "neo-con" are able to define the term; they just apply it to those whose views differ from their own.

Here's an interesting definition I came across:

neo-con -- a liberal who's been mugged by reality.

So how would we define a "neo-com"? One who has yet to acknowledge reality?

pinky


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OfflineSlapnutRob
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Registered: 03/31/03
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Neo-con? [Re: Phred]
    #2311049 - 02/07/04 07:51 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

I've heard that definition and I don't understand it. A neo-conservative is so farrrrrrr from a liberal. As far as I understand it, it simply refers to the Paul Wolfowitz school of thought concerning foreign policy... that preventive invasions are okay.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,439
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Re: Neo-con? [Re: Phred]
    #2311136 - 02/07/04 09:43 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

I would say "neocon", or neoconservative, is the description of a political thought expressed mostly in expansionism and military power. Trying to define "neocon" as a political philosophy may require too much of a generalization...where it is so much easier to simply point out the group of people in Washington who are the neocons. Paul Wolfowitz and friends.

As far as I know, the group began somewhere in the late 60's to early 70's when the democrats turned against the Viet Nam War - the neocons did not and split off from the dems.

Neocon is best used as a term to describe the militaristic "super-power" expansionists in the government.


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You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Neo-con? [Re: trendal]
    #2311418 - 02/07/04 01:30 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Trying to define "neocon" as a political philosophy may require too much of a generalization

ill try anyway.. the generalization i'll make is that what is commonly referred to as "neocon" boils down to a crude form of biological determinism..however based on class and not race or nationality...the rest..ie military expansionism abroad..and the loss of legal rights at home..follow directly from acceptance of the biological superiority of the ruling class...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Neo-con? [Re: Phred]
    #2311545 - 02/07/04 02:19 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Neo-conservatism takes the worst aspects of liberalism and conservatism, and throws in a little fascism and imperialism for good measure.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Neo-con? [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #2312159 - 02/07/04 05:47 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

There are some good articles on Wikipedia for those interested, I got this from there:

Quote:


Economic views

The neoconservative generally views neoliberal economics as a way to achieve their agenda. There is free trade advocacy and military-industrial complex propaganda further to the global economic monoculture in their agenda.

Like many classic or "old right" conservatives, neoconservatives generally believe in supply side economics (often known as Reaganomics).

The foreign policy idea of neoconservative relates to the domestic idea of a common sense conservative most strongly in the view that tax cuts are inherently good for the economy, no matter how the public spends the money that they keep.

Political views

They also share a belief in the importance of religion in underpinning culture - not plural.

The intellectual origins and figures that shaped neoconservatism have many and varied views. They are often said to have origins in the "old left" and to demonstrate an extremely strong connection to the state of Israel.

This helps demonstrate that neoconservatives reject the semi-isolationism often associated with traditional conservatism, in favor of global free trade, capitalism that transcends national borders with little government regulation or restriction, and a more aggressive, and sometimes even interventionist, foreign policy. This combination has been characterized by opponents as New Totalitarianism.

Nationalism

Despite their focus on globalization and technology and trade, neoconservative forces universally declare themselves to be nationalist and to be seeking protection of national interests.

No nation has a neoconservative party; in Canada and the United States neoconservatism is, often uncomfortably, in the same party as more traditional paleoconservatives. In Britain neoconservatism is still much more intangible with accusations of Tony Blair's New Labour being neoconservative, and the Tory party also trying to adopt some of its ideologies.

Common elements of policy

Some common neoconservative policies:

* Free trade (taken from traditional liberalism and the neoliberals)
* Primacy of economics (from socialism
* Supply side economics (from conservatism)
* Interventionist foreign policy (from fascism)

Neoconservative beliefs vary from country to country. Some favour decriminalization of drugs (from libertarianism), but the US and UK have actually supported invasions of sovereign nations using the War on Drugs as a partial excuse, e.g. US in Panama, UK in Afghanistan. There is thus no consensus on this issue globally.




There is also a much more detailed explanation on Wikipedia here.


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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Neo-con? [Re: Phred]
    #2312164 - 02/07/04 05:49 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

neoconservative?

Have you not seen this term in serious (and not-so-serious) political literature?

That's where I got it from! You'd better believe it's a real term.
It seems to describe these 21century conservatives...the ones who would take society back to a near feudalist age.

Actually, it describes the same type of conservatism of centuries past. (Gold Standard monetary policy, now "neo" in the sense of zero-inflation monetary policy), a small, rich ruling class with a vast, exploitable underclass, etc...

You seem to be doubting the validity or legitimacy of the term, maybe you should read more.

Now your trying to make up the term "neo-coms" (neo communist, I presume)

Do you think people who think health insurance should be universal, WAL-MART should pay more than poverty wages and wars like Iraq are injust are somehow connected with the totalitarian, brutal dictatorships of 'communist' regimes?

That's the impression I get.

If you do think that it's pretty silly.


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Neo-con? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2313094 - 02/08/04 12:09 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

carbonhoots said:
neoconservative?
Do you think people who think health insurance should be universal, WAL-MART should pay more than poverty wages and wars like Iraq are injust are somehow connected with the totalitarian, brutal dictatorships of 'communist' regimes?





That's exactly what he thinks. Argument by defamatory hyperbole: taxation is the moral equivalent of the Gulag, all liberals are closet Stalinists, blah blah blah.

Meanwhile neo-conservatism, the closest thing to fascism the developed world has seen in the last fifty years, warrants no comment other than mirth in the form of lame puns, etc.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Neo-con? [Re: Edame]
    #2313096 - 02/08/04 12:10 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Nice link, thanks.


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Anonymous

Re: Neo-con? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2313202 - 02/08/04 01:04 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Neo-con? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2313564 - 02/08/04 03:51 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

THX 4 TEH "defamatory hyperbole".


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Neo-con? [Re: ]
    #2313812 - 02/08/04 09:28 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Natch.  An agreement's an agreement.

But I would have thought a man your age would have learned by now not to count his chickens before they're hatched.  I'll have a nice file of this and all of your other (prematurely) gloating missives ready for you if and when you lose. (Notice my use of the conditional "if", commonly employed by us mere mortals who do not have your staggering powers of prophecy.)

:heartpump:


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Anonymous

Re: Neo-con? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2313881 - 02/08/04 10:54 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

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