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Oceanshore23Forest
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23119137 - 04/14/16 11:28 PM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said:
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Sophistic Radiance said: Did I hear that the Japanese submitted their unconditional surrender before they got nuked twice? The U.S. just wanted to make an example of them? Fucking terrible, but of course the US will never apologize for its terrorism.
only one flaw in this
japan never made an unconditional surrender until after they were nuked
what exactly was it that japan did prior to and during WWII, oh yeah, korea and china are the first things that come to mind, then comes the treatment of prisoners during the war
why do they deserve an apology?
The Prisoners Themselves believed that the Prison Guards are the the president himself were assholes. As i said they are from japan so there judgement is very fast indeed. They dont like being trapped in a cell. There is good reason to believe they are into sabotree
-------------------- Jenny, jehny, sean, taliesen, taylor I was the Head honcho And...... i still am Jonas is everready matthew is a psychiatrist Marcus is a therapist Arthur has Appeared ..... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1Gz8gmpPZTDdbWY7sNa3D5PGER3mxvp2 The drugs i use: Day: Clozaril 400mg, Zyprexa, 15mg, Seroquel 20mg, Risperdal 6mg, Invega 9mg The all in One Curved Rounded Pillar, Klonopin 1mg, Truvada The now mushroomm, Tivicay the Daydreams mushroom, Gabapentin 600mg Night: Lithium 300mg, Ativan 3mg, 5Htp, Trazodone 100mg, Hydroxyzine 2 at sleep time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWWopjG9URo&nohtml5=False
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: EllisDSox]
#23119140 - 04/14/16 11:29 PM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
BERSERK DESTROYER said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
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Sophistic Radiance said: Did I hear that the Japanese submitted their unconditional surrender before they got nuked twice? The U.S. just wanted to make an example of them? Fucking terrible, but of course the US will never apologize for its terrorism.
only one flaw in this
japan never made an unconditional surrender until after they were nuked
what exactly was it that japan did prior to and during WWII, oh yeah, korea and china are the first things that come to mind, then comes the treatment of prisoners during the war
why do they deserve an apology?
Oh, so now systematic gang rape and mass murder on a level potentially surpassing that carried out by the Nazis is a bad thing? HOW DARE YOU?! Hirohito got off lightly, but I guess he wasn't personally really doing a tremendous amount except acting as a figurehead.
now japan did apologize for raping innocent women and children and murdering millions of people so everything is all better now, the dead came back to life, the women and children were unfucked and it was like it never happened. the only reason we even remember WWII is because the US never made an apology to japan or to hitler for ruining his nazi party
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Oceanshore23Forest
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23119147 - 04/14/16 11:31 PM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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I meant Sabotage.
-------------------- Jenny, jehny, sean, taliesen, taylor I was the Head honcho And...... i still am Jonas is everready matthew is a psychiatrist Marcus is a therapist Arthur has Appeared ..... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1Gz8gmpPZTDdbWY7sNa3D5PGER3mxvp2 The drugs i use: Day: Clozaril 400mg, Zyprexa, 15mg, Seroquel 20mg, Risperdal 6mg, Invega 9mg The all in One Curved Rounded Pillar, Klonopin 1mg, Truvada The now mushroomm, Tivicay the Daydreams mushroom, Gabapentin 600mg Night: Lithium 300mg, Ativan 3mg, 5Htp, Trazodone 100mg, Hydroxyzine 2 at sleep time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWWopjG9URo&nohtml5=False
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Oceanshore23Forest] 1
#23119153 - 04/14/16 11:33 PM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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I thought you meant faygotree
I still didnt understand any of what you said
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BrotherManBill
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: twighead]
#23119187 - 04/14/16 11:48 PM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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Japan didn't start that war, and killed far less people than the Nazi's or the Russians at that time. And I never said we didn't help those countries, but we did far less than we could have for our allies, who basically faught that war for us.
And to defend the idea that we owe them nothing is outrageous. Millions of innocent people died, just to make a point. That is what the atomic bomb was, a race for power and dominance. And it was released on not soldiers, but civilians.
Say whatever you will, we do and will own Japan a huge debt for what we did, and that is how it should be. To say otherwise is going against all humanitarian rights we have worked for in this country, so that people cannot do the same to us.
Its a two way street, we aren't special, we don't have "God given rights" as americans, its people in general. And to think otherwise is missing the point.
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starfire_xes
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23119197 - 04/14/16 11:50 PM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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I don't know if Japan really did anything wrong.....well, they did walk about 10,000 men to death in the sun on Bataan, without giving them any rest, food, or water.....then they murdered 100,000 people in Nanking, and raped every woman they came across in china, no matter how young or old....set up brothels in korea with 11 and 12 year old korean girls for the soldiers....
Old marines will tell you they used to hear marines that got captured being disembowled at night....
here is a great pic....Japanese soldiers burying Chinese men alive....
They even fucked over their own people, like on Okinawa--their 'fight to the death' cost 200,000 lives--a third of the islands population including 100,000 civilians, and another 100,000 japanese soldiers and Okinawan conscripts. They even have a memorial there where Okinawan women jumped to their death with their children and babies because the Japanese told them that the americans were going to torture and rape them and their children.
And we should have invaded Japan and let them fight to the end???????
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twighead
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: BrotherManBill]
#23119227 - 04/15/16 12:05 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
BrotherManBill said: Japan didn't start that war, and killed far less people than the Nazi's or the Russians at that time. And I never said we didn't help those countries, but we did far less than we could have for our allies, who basically faught that war for us.
And to defend the idea that we owe them nothing is outrageous. Millions of innocent people died, just to make a point. That is what the atomic bomb was, a race for power and dominance. And it was released on not soldiers, but civilians.
Say whatever you will, we do and will own Japan a huge debt for what we did, and that is how it should be. To say otherwise is going against all humanitarian rights we have worked for in this country, so that people cannot do the same to us.
Its a two way street, we aren't special, we don't have "God given rights" as americans, its people in general. And to think otherwise is missing the point.
Japan didn't start that war? As I recall they bombed us first.
Don't view events from the little limited time frame of 1939-1945... Japan had already occupied the capital of China by 1937. They had been the military aggressors in the region for the last 50-60 years... And we took care of them pretty decently after the war - and became their largest economic ally - our message is pretty clear throughout the entire conflict: surrender immediately or we will fight you in any way to destroy you... if you're our friend we will work hard to support you.
WWII was not a conflict that was going to be won by holding any punches.
Also people state that 'the war was already won' so easily - so what if Japan was pushed back to only on the mainland. As I said before, if they intended to still resist it doesn't matter in the slightest if their industrial capacity was crippled... even the US military vs civilians resisting with rocks and sticks would be a horrendous, bloody, and traumatic invasion... Estimates done by the US command expected millions of casualties.
When Japan did surrender - there was a quite narrowly avoided military coup immediately following... Their goal of course was to continue total war.
also saying 'they'd killed less people' is so marginal.... look at the casualties for the China and Korea conflicts they are horrendous.
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Oceanshore23Forest
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23119242 - 04/15/16 12:17 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: I thought you meant faygotree
I still didnt understand any of what you said
-------------------- Jenny, jehny, sean, taliesen, taylor I was the Head honcho And...... i still am Jonas is everready matthew is a psychiatrist Marcus is a therapist Arthur has Appeared ..... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1Gz8gmpPZTDdbWY7sNa3D5PGER3mxvp2 The drugs i use: Day: Clozaril 400mg, Zyprexa, 15mg, Seroquel 20mg, Risperdal 6mg, Invega 9mg The all in One Curved Rounded Pillar, Klonopin 1mg, Truvada The now mushroomm, Tivicay the Daydreams mushroom, Gabapentin 600mg Night: Lithium 300mg, Ativan 3mg, 5Htp, Trazodone 100mg, Hydroxyzine 2 at sleep time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWWopjG9URo&nohtml5=False
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BrotherManBill
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Oceanshore23Forest]
#23119286 - 04/15/16 12:53 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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I'm not trying to make death marginal, in fact its the exact opposite. The original question was should we apologize? Which we did, yet, I don't think that is enough. What they have done to other countries or their own is of no concern. Because if this was the other way around you all would be in this thread demanding reparations. So shut the fuck up and admit that we did wrong.
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EllisDSox
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23119507 - 04/15/16 03:39 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: now japan did apologize for raping innocent women and children and murdering millions of people so everything is all better now, the dead came back to life, the women and children were unfucked and it was like it never happened. the only reason we even remember WWII is because the US never made an apology to japan or to hitler for ruining his nazi party
I was there when the apology resurrection happened. It was pretty good. Token apologies about past atrocities are kind of bullshit on one level, but people do seem to get some comfort from having their traumatic experiences at least recognised, so maybe it's not a totally worthless gesture. I think a lot of Japanese "historical" literature is still completely full of shit on the issue of comfort women. I know a lot of teachers there refused to even teach their textbooks because they were so full of shit.
I'm always surprised when I remember that more Chinese people than Germans died in the course of the war. Half the countries in Eastern Asia want Japan destroyed, AND THEY SHALL HAVE THEIR REVENGE, or my name isn't Ming Lee.
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twighead
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: BrotherManBill]
#23119546 - 04/15/16 04:15 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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BrotherManBill said: I'm not trying to make death marginal, in fact its the exact opposite. The original question was should we apologize? Which we did, yet, I don't think that is enough. What they have done to other countries or their own is of no concern. Because if this was the other way around you all would be in this thread demanding reparations. So shut the fuck up and admit that we did wrong.
No I wouldn't demand reparations... They understand the cost of war and were accepting in their defeat.
Is anyone actually serious or influential in Japan demanding reparations?
No.
If the US invaded and took over all of the Americas and Asia/Europe shattered the US with strategic bombing campaigns I wouldn't cry about the unfairness... It's simple as this: Don't try to conquer a whole continent and you won't get slaughtered.
Do I think the US is all warm and innocent in their actions? No it was cold and cruel as fuck... but I can't say they weren't justified, and I can't argue with their calculations.
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BrotherManBill
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: twighead] 1
#23119740 - 04/15/16 06:45 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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Pearl harbor was an army base, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities filled with innocent people. This isn't about being fair, its about trying to make up for something that was unnecessary and way over the line. It's pretty easy to sit here in a country that has never been invaded, or really lived through the aftermath of war, for that matter, and say that they had it coming.
It wasn't the Japanese people who did that to us, it was their army. We responded by wiping out two cities. A drastic overreaction in my eyes. You can go on thinking it was justified, but we knew those bombers were on their way, and did nothing.
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qman
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: BrotherManBill]
#23119752 - 04/15/16 06:55 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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BrotherManBill said: Pearl harbor was an army base, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities filled with innocent people. This isn't about being fair, its about trying to make up for something that was unnecessary and way over the line. It's pretty easy to sit here in a country that has never been invaded, or really lived through the aftermath of war, for that matter, and say that they had it coming.
It wasn't the Japanese people who did that to us, it was their army. We responded by wiping out two cities. A drastic overreaction in my eyes. You can go on thinking it was justified, but we knew those bombers were on their way, and did nothing.
You have to realize the US had already lost millions of it's own men, they were civilians just a few months before in many occasions, we didn't want to lose even more men.
Japan is a great country today because of the US, we have defended them militarily since the end of the war, that has enabled them to become at one time to be the 2nd largest economy in the world.
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Asante
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: BrotherManBill]
#23119845 - 04/15/16 07:48 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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BrotherManBill said: Pearl harbor was an army base, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities filled with innocent people. This isn't about being fair, its about trying to make up for something that was unnecessary and way over the line. It's pretty easy to sit here in a country that has never been invaded, or really lived through the aftermath of war, for that matter, and say that they had it coming.
It wasn't the Japanese people who did that to us, it was their army. We responded by wiping out two cities. A drastic overreaction in my eyes. You can go on thinking it was justified, but we knew those bombers were on their way, and did nothing.
Don't forget the firebombing of Tokyo which was raid after raid of dropping cluster bombs of napalm and phosphorus on an in essence wooden city. One of those raids left 100,000 people dead and was the most destructive non nuclear bombing raid in history.
Look, Germany bombed the Dutch city of Rotterdam in the Rotterdam Blitz to make my country surrender, this led to 884 casualties and is widely regarded as a War Crime. Just saying.
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PatrickKn
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Asante]
#23119895 - 04/15/16 08:11 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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Asante said: Look, Germany bombed the Dutch city of Rotterdam in the Rotterdam Blitz to make my country surrender, this led to 884 casualties and is widely regarded as a War Crime. Just saying.
The things we (the American's) did to defeat them were atrocities by definition. But the Japanese were the initial aggressors, and a very powerful military at that. Unconditional surrender was a necessary resolution to the conflict. You don't engage a country in total warfare without the end goal of a complete victory. A complete disarming and demilitarization of the Japanese was the end goal, and it wouldn't have been achieved as effectively with a ground invasion of the Main Islands.
The bombs were dropped for strategic advantage of course. It sounds horrible to say that the residents of Okinawa and Nagasaki were strategic casualties, but that is the nature of total war. Total war was the nature of war during WW2. And the Japanese leadership were not ignorant that total war was a high likelihood if they chose to make a preemptive attack on the United States. It's the risk they took for the sake of keeping us out of their own war campaigns in Asia, and it backfired on both their civilian population and military completely.
What constituted a war crime was decided by the victors of WW2. There are plenty of contradictions in what the Allied Powers did compared to the Axis powers for what constituted war crime, but the very nature of the complete defeats involved allowed for us to charge others with them and for us to turn a blind eye to our own. War crimes as an ideology are silly in nature. They are decided on by the most powerful players every time.
Edited by PatrickKn (04/15/16 08:15 AM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: starfire_xes]
#23120330 - 04/15/16 10:29 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: I don't know if Japan really did anything wrong.....
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Asante]
#23120335 - 04/15/16 10:30 AM (8 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
BrotherManBill said: Pearl harbor was an army base, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities filled with innocent people. This isn't about being fair, its about trying to make up for something that was unnecessary and way over the line. It's pretty easy to sit here in a country that has never been invaded, or really lived through the aftermath of war, for that matter, and say that they had it coming.
It wasn't the Japanese people who did that to us, it was their army. We responded by wiping out two cities. A drastic overreaction in my eyes. You can go on thinking it was justified, but we knew those bombers were on their way, and did nothing.
Don't forget the firebombing of Tokyo which was raid after raid of dropping cluster bombs of napalm and phosphorus on an in essence wooden city. One of those raids left 100,000 people dead and was the most destructive non nuclear bombing raid in history.
Look, Germany bombed the Dutch city of Rotterdam in the Rotterdam Blitz to make my country surrender, this led to 884 casualties and is widely regarded as a War Crime. Just saying.
did the dutch provoke the actions by attacking germany?
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twighead
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: BrotherManBill]
#23121242 - 04/15/16 03:45 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
BrotherManBill said: Pearl harbor was an army base, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities filled with innocent people. This isn't about being fair, its about trying to make up for something that was unnecessary and way over the line. It's pretty easy to sit here in a country that has never been invaded, or really lived through the aftermath of war, for that matter, and say that they had it coming.
It wasn't the Japanese people who did that to us, it was their army. We responded by wiping out two cities. A drastic overreaction in my eyes. You can go on thinking it was justified, but we knew those bombers were on their way, and did nothing.
Yeah they didn't do it to us, but their actions in China show they definitely would have. No one was fighting WWII like 'destroy the military and then win!' - every side fought WWII in the style of total war, where civilians are seen as resources and their will to fight is a lever to swing in your favor.
Just like the US, Japan had a draft, and Japan would divert almost all civilian efforts towards the war... so almost every citizen was actively increasing the fighting capabilities of the Japanese military - and in the beginning of 1945, the National Resistance Program made men 15 to 60 and women 17 to 40 subject to training for a projected final defense of the homeland if it was invaded.
So yeah what would your plan be as the US military? You talk about how we should've been more gentle, but what would you have done? Just sat around outside Japan and waited for them to surrender? As the US saw it, it was either killing a lot of them, or sacrificing a lot of us - to secure the end of the war in total subjugation.
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Asante
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23121443 - 04/15/16 04:50 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
BrotherManBill said: Pearl harbor was an army base, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities filled with innocent people. This isn't about being fair, its about trying to make up for something that was unnecessary and way over the line. It's pretty easy to sit here in a country that has never been invaded, or really lived through the aftermath of war, for that matter, and say that they had it coming.
It wasn't the Japanese people who did that to us, it was their army. We responded by wiping out two cities. A drastic overreaction in my eyes. You can go on thinking it was justified, but we knew those bombers were on their way, and did nothing.
Don't forget the firebombing of Tokyo which was raid after raid of dropping cluster bombs of napalm and phosphorus on an in essence wooden city. One of those raids left 100,000 people dead and was the most destructive non nuclear bombing raid in history.
Look, Germany bombed the Dutch city of Rotterdam in the Rotterdam Blitz to make my country surrender, this led to 884 casualties and is widely regarded as a War Crime. Just saying.
did the dutch provoke the actions by attacking germany?
The Netherlands were hit by the Nazis a whole lot harder than the US was hit by Japan. If The Netherlands had nuked two German cities I'd also consider it a war crime.
Just because someone else started it doesn't mean that anything goes.
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PatrickKn
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Re: Should America apologize to Japan for blowing them to fuckn smithereenies? [Re: Asante]
#23121615 - 04/15/16 05:56 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Asante said: The Netherlands were hit by the Nazis a whole lot harder than the US was hit by Japan. If The Netherlands had nuked two German cities I'd also consider it a war crime.
Just because someone else started it doesn't mean that anything goes.
War is not a means of dealing justice though. It is not an eye for an eye. Again the very concept of the War Crime is put into question within this context as well.
If WW2 was a testament to anything, it was that through the development of killing technology, aggressors needed to be much more capable of finishing their task before attempting any aggressive actions. You had a group of countries exercising colonial expansionism through military means with little regard to the consequences posed by more powerful nations when they worked together. And the rest of the world attacked back as a whole as a result. The powers involved that lost were completely unprepared for the onslaught, but were willing to fight to the end because they were at least powerful enough to stave off complete surrender.
Would we have accepted a partial surrender or cease fire by the Germans when the tides of the war changed on them? Would you have allowed the Nazi's to stay in power and regenerate their military for the sake of not participating (as a nation) in war crimes? If aggressors were allowed to pull out when their military resources were drained, call for a temporary truce, would you oblige the aggressors in the name of peace - knowing that the country that has invaded now has expanded it's borders, obtained new resources, etc.
I suppose you may draw parallels with Japan not attacking the United States in order to colonies it, which is different from what Germany was doing in Europe. I only bring up these points because you say it would still justify a war crime had the dutch bombed Germany. The distinction of the war crime is arbitrary, just like murder is arbitrary when a man has a gun against your head and you manage to kill him first.
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