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Visions
    #2305831 -

My old computer used to clutter up the screen with meaningless color patterns before it died. It wasn't working properly and the memory was being overwritten.

Visions - why do they only seem to be the product of an abnormally functioning brain? Apparently people only see visions after sleep deprivation, fever, serious illness, bodily trauma, extended fasting or psychotropic drugs. All of these things are disruptive to the normal, healthy functioning of the brain. Visions appear to be (no pun) a by-product of this disruption rather than a connection with a higher plane.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2305932 -

and of course there are also dreams, visions that each living person has 3-5 times every night, during an essential part of a healthy brain cycle...

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2305940 -

Even so if that is true that they are more of dysfunction, than higher order function as you say.

What if one could learn how to manipulate those images, or utilize them for oneself. The "vision" isnt useless, even if it isnt because of some higher power.

Does everyone think that they are a product of a higher power?


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What?

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2305983 -

both of you made good points. a lot of the time my imagination works in more of a vision format, than a brain-storming format... art and poetry comes to me more in a pictureshow style than anything, where my techniques in recording them and displaying them on paper or through instruments is a matter of learning and skill and effort, my imagination is more effortless and passive.


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2306075 -

Perhaps an abnormally functioning mind is more in tune with the working of a higher plain


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get it all together get like birds of a feather

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2306090 -

I summon visions every evening in bed before sleep...

Hypnogogic imagery (I believe its called) is fascinating.

I see what you mean though... I've never had a hypnogogic image strike me as nearly as powerful or profound as various drug hallucinations or visions from not sleeping for days.

This is strange, maybe its one's mind trying to say "HEY FUCKER SOMETHING'S UP!"


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2306113 -

Quote:

Sole_Worthy said:
Perhaps an abnormally functioning mind is more in tune with the working of a higher plain



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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2306153 -

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

Sole_Worthy said:
Perhaps an abnormally functioning mind is more in tune with the working of a higher plain





When you take psychedelic drugs...it opens up doors....


in your mind. Doors that the "upper management" of USA's Society would rather you keep shut.

And then often times...people become...

ENLIGHTENED...

Simply....because...they...ALTERED....their consciousness.

They entered....an ABNORMAL....state of mind...

Reaching..enlightenment...in an altered and abnormal state of mind.

With that in mind is it so hard to concieve that visions people can encounter in an altered and abnormal state of mind, are also of a higher and more 'enlightened' existence? PARTICULARLY....when we take hallucinogens? (Which, again...open up DOORS...in your mind)



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Visions [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2306163 -

It's all relative to your definition of an abnormally functioning mind. How do we know when the mind is functioning abnormally, when we know so little about it's function in the first place?

Perhaps what we consider to be disruptive functioning of the brain, in some cases, could actually weaken or distract the ego, and more subtle energies could be perceived by a being who is functioning in an altered state of consciousness, outside of regular ego consciousness, which is rather calculative. Perhaps this "abnormal" functioning, is really just a quick glimpse into the spirit world as we vibrate at a different frequency then 'normal'.


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Re: Visions [Re: Shroomism]
    #2306164 -

I think visions (from whatever cause) are often accompanied with the feeling of depth and importance (spiritual meaning) because of their rare occurrence.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: Visions [Re: Shroomism]
    #2306174 -

I once had visions while in a delirium as my brain was at 104.5 degrees, which is quite dangerous. I think you can die or do permanent damage a little above 105 degrees, so in that case it certainly seems to be malfunctioning. There was no meaning associated with these visions.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2306185 -

Quote:

Swami said:
Apparently people only see visions after sleep deprivation, fever, serious illness, bodily trauma, extended fasting or psychotropic drugs. All of these things are disruptive to the normal, healthy functioning of the brain. Visions appear to be (no pun) a by-product of this disruption rather than a connection with a higher plane.



Maybe it's that our brains are currently in a disrupted state and it's these things you listed that return us to "normal, healthy" brain function. Besides, wasn't just other humans who defined what's "normal" and "healthy" for the brain? Who's to say they're not wrong? I certainly wouldn't assume they're right. They're only human.

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Re: Visions [Re: MrGrib]
    #2306196 -

I would define normal brain functioning as the ability to deal with survival issues. Could you work, defend yourself, drive a car, effectively communicate with random others in many of these conditions? Not likely; therefore not "normal". Of course, you could choose to play semantic games which rarely leads anywhere...


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2306198 -

Well I would venture to say that different causes of visions could denote different meanings. For example, a roasting brain vision.. is likely your brain going woah.. this isn't normal.. time to go crazy..

Why do visions seem to happen more frequently before the potential for death?

Perhaps the 'malfunctioning', is just the spirit's eye opening.


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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2306212 -

Well I'm just a little leary because I have visions (outside of near-death encounters), and I function in society (somewhat...haha), and as far as I know, my brain is functioning "normally". So does that mean that I am schizophrenic or what?

I once saw four pillars of multidimensional light with triangle heads through self-hypnosis, they were very friendly and helpful. Those damn visions.


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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2306219 -

where did you come up with this term "survival issues"? What may be survival issues for you may not be survival issues for another. So your attributing the term "normal" to these functions is clearly biased. Please rethink your point.

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2306245 -

i think that there is a difference between visions and hallucinations. when i hallucinate i know the experience with more senses; this is what happens in those critical(disfunctioning) periods...they are hallucinations, not visions. visions can be associated with more non-critical experiences, like when you use your imagination. when you are in a critical experience your brain is not relativley normal, so chemicals are sent out of whack...i dont know...ive got to think about this some more


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: Shroomism]
    #2306252 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Visions [Re: ]
    #2306258 -

well, save personally trying to get as close to death as possible, we could research near death experiences and draw on simularities of 'visions' as a start


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: MrGrib]
    #2306263 -

Indeed Swamers, you need not look far.

Cats, birds, many animals, are in tune with visions. Birds migrate before the snows, cats flee with their offspring before natural disaster...other situations can be found if you desired to search.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Visions [Re: psyka]
    #2306266 -

instinct isnt visions


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306267 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Visions [Re: ]
    #2306270 -

That is what I was hinting at... we are drawing close to the other side and thus the body and mind reacts in an 'abnormal' manner. Whether these visions are the result of some external force as a warning, signal, trigger, or lesson.. or they are just an internal reaction for the same reasons..

Testing such a hypothesis would be impossible under current empiricism.


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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306271 -

And what is instinct, CleverName?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Visions [Re: ]
    #2306274 -

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:
I become a little bit skeptical when people begin talking about NDE's, though. I had one and I saw, nothing. My own experience, thus extrapolated, would mean there is nothing on the other side and I do not believe that for a moment.



IMO You did not see the other side. You saw the void, that which is in-between here and the other side. It is nothingness.


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Re: Visions [Re: Shroomism]
    #2306279 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Visions [Re: psyka]
    #2306290 -

An inborn pattern of behavior that is characteristic of a species and is often a response to specific environmental stimuli: the spawning instinct in salmon; altruistic instincts in social animals.


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: ]
    #2306300 -

That same void one must travel through to reach "the other side" of astral projection.. it can be a scary place for those who are unprepared.. because all you have is your own thoughts, so you better make sure you know how to control them :wink: one fear can spiral out of control into chaos

This 'void' appears to exist on many levels. It is referenced frequently in martial arts, at least based on my experiences. There is a void in every aspect of life and death. Like the yin, and the yang... in life you are in the middle of it... looking to the left you see the yin and right the yang.. one is good one is bad.. in the void you are outside of the yin yang.. you do not see good or bad.. you see one formless exchange of energy, it is not good or bad, it simply "is"


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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306308 -

"An inborn pattern of behavior that is characteristic of a species and is often a response to specific environmental stimuli."

Indeed. Just because visions are highly attuned to more abstract patterns in the Universe does not void the value in them. I would like to know the scientific reasoning on why a cat reacts to earthquakes so efficiently. I'll google it myself but please dont let that hold you back from any responses.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Visions [Re: Shroomism]
    #2306318 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Visions [Re: ]
    #2306323 -

back to the subject, we could test this hypothesis by sending swami on a vision quest in the mohave desert :grin:


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Re: Visions [Re: psyka]
    #2306333 -

i didnt want to get into a whole 'thing' over this, i simply stated that instinct isnt visions...i never said anything about voiding the value in anything...


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: Shroomism]
    #2306335 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306342 -

being in harmony with the universe, i just dont see how that produces visions or hallucinations. are you trying to make the point that we have an extra sense that we dont use or have forgotten? or simply that other organisms have higher sensory skills?


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306570 -

I think most of these (visions and hallucinations) have more to do with brain chemistry.  I know that perspective isn't very meaningful in the spiritual sense, but one fellow brought an interesting point in another thread...

2Experimental said: Just think, each human has a God living inside of thier skulls they can use to change and manipulate certain aspects of reality to thier  liking!

I think this is a cool angle...felt like a revelation after I read it :wink:


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: Visions [Re: Shroomism]
    #2306590 -

Quote:

Shroomism said:
back to the subject, we could test this hypothesis by sending swami on a vision quest in the mohave desert :grin:



:lol: ...hmm, that sounds kinda fun.  I'm game  :shiftyeyes:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2306612 -

Hey everyone, you have forgot the major portion of visions we experience in waking hours!!! Want some examples...

Visions of the sun, trees, birds, bees, computer, mouse, stereo, e.t.c.
Everything that our eyes take in and our brain perceives. The visions become different or as meant in this thread as "visions" when we are in an altered state of consiousness from whatever reason. They can occur during deep meditation and other trance states. Dancing, making love. Everything is in union. Something we label a disruption to our brain is certainly not disharmonious with the whole of nature and the cosmos.

Edited by Earth_Droid (02/05/04 08:11 PM)

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Re: Visions [Re: ]
    #2306659 -

some stuff i quickly found

web page

a 7-year-old girl who was without spontaneous heartbeat for 19 minutes and had fixed and dilated pupils. She recovered to give a detailed description of her own resuscitation including hearing pieces of conversations in the emergency room, accurately describing her own resuscitation with details such as nasal intubation and being placed in a CT scanner. This was followed by a spiritual journey with a spirit guide through a dark tunnel to a heavenly realm and a decision to return to consciousness.

NDEs are in fact stories told by patients who have nearly died. There is remarkable consistency in the stories themselves, whether reported by Freudian psychiatrists, New Age psychologists, materialistic death-fearing cardiologists, nurses, anthropologists, pediatricians, geologists, mining engineers, even sneering radiologists, Again and again, they are described as involving a sense of detaching from the physical body, looking at one's own body and surroundings from a vantage point outside the body, entering a void or darkness, and encountering a spiritual light. There is often a decision of some sort to return to the body.


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306699 -

Transient depersonalization is a transient dissociative event that occurs to subjects before accidental death. This "transient depersonalization syndrome" involves unusual clarity of thought, time seeming to slow down, and a sense of peace and calm. Anyone involved in a car accident has had this very common-place reaction, which probably has tremendous survival advantage.


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306718 -

Further support of this theory of hippocampal disruption resulting in increased mesial temporal lobe contribution to our perceived image of reality comes from findings that LSD acts by a similar process. LSD is known to produce images identical with NDEs. I applied Ring's Near Death Validity Scale68 to published accounts of reports of LSD used in therapy on dying cancer patients and found that many of the accounts scored as moderate or deep NDEs.126 Halgren et al,125 comment that two other conditions (other than temporal lobe stimulation) associated with hallucinations, natural sleep and LSD, are also associated with profound disruption of hippocampal neuronal activity. The behaviors that suggest chimpanzees are having hallucinations from LSD are not effected by frontal lobectomy yet are stopped by temporal lobectomy.125 Spiegel and Jarvik127 also comment that the effects of LSD are similar to those seen in temporal lobe stimulation studies.

These similarities of NDEs, temporal lobe stimulation studies, temporal lobe seizures, LDS-induced hallucinations, and mystical states imply all of these are associated with similar brain states, regardless of the primary mechanism of the differing clinical entities. This real-time temporal lobe model for NDEs works equally well for those who describe the experiences as artifacts of temporal lobe function128 or for those who consider them to represent the normal functioning of the human brain at the point of death.114 Activation of this area of the brain could occur in the entire spectrum of clinical situations producing visionary and NDEs.


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306725 -

A variety of different neurotransmitters and neuronal receptors are speculated to be involved with NDEs, including serotonin,129 endorphins,130 or L-glutamate. As for the latter, Jansen131 states that NDEs are in fact a by-product of the brain's attempt to heal itself at the point of death. The neurotransmitter at N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors is probably L-glutamate, which can kill neurons when in excess. The release during ischemia of an endopsychosin that may function as a protective blocking agent could serve the function of minimizing brain damage and could have dissociative side effects on consciousness.


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306754 -

nah, fuck all that. it's much more comforting to think that NDEs give us a glimpse into the "other side" :rolleyes:

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Re: Visions [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2306777 -

NDE:


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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306782 -

Quote:

CleverName said:
A variety of different neurotransmitters and neuronal receptors are speculated to be involved with NDEs, including serotonin,129 endorphins,130 or L-glutamate. As for the latter, Jansen131 states that NDEs are in fact a by-product of the brain's attempt to heal itself at the point of death. The neurotransmitter at N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors is probably L-glutamate, which can kill neurons when in excess. The release during ischemia of an endopsychosin that may function as a protective blocking agent could serve the function of minimizing brain damage and could have dissociative side effects on consciousness.



Ah yes...that explains everything! Thank you for showing me the absolute truth :smile: I feel much more happy now that I know that...wait what does all that mean? Does disassociative side effects mean that they give visions? Please explain I dont understand :frown:


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

Edited by psyka (02/05/04 08:51 PM)

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Re: Visions [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2306790 -

i not sure which post of mine your talking about, but with so many nde's reported from such an array of people and cultures, and so many of them having so much in common, it seems that something lies after this life...


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2306809 -

I'm sorry that wasn't specifically directed at you. I was just addressing the issue under discussion.

but this I find interesting:

and so many of them having so much in common

a lot of people have similar dreams, does that mean there is a persistent "dream world" somewhere?

a lot of people have similar NDEs, does that mean there is an afterlife?
maybe these experiences have a lot in common because of similar biology - the same neurotransmitters being involved, dmt being released, etc.

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Re: Visions [Re: Swami]
    #2307019 -

"Visions" let moses lead his people, "visions" got a lot of depressed and easily swayed germans to murder 6 million jews, "visions" killed likewise millions of russians seeking to find a "perfect" government.

Visions have led us to the moon, they have given peace to the opressed in the america.

"visions" led settlers across the west in their quest for manifest destiny.

"visions" accompany many psychonaughts, spiritual travelers... and yes, even crazy people.

"Visions" may even come in some distrupted phase of sleep where one is not completely asleep, and not fully awake.

-----

I had visions when i had a bad temperature too, i saw everything in red actually.

All together, i wouldnt be surprised if the majority of my visions came from really shitty situations in my life...


But the funny thing is, ive had these all my life, and they have kept me going, in search for "something". I realize their is a lot of bullshit in the world, and while i dont know if god exists or not, or what god is for that matter to say what i think about.

But i plan to utilize this brain of mine, and maybe, with some of the "visions", if i become smart enough, capable enough, i could share my vision in 3 dimensions! Instead of the usual hypnogic two.

But i wouldnt discourage anyone from trying to understand why they observe the things they do. What is the harm in trying to understand when it was what we are most inclined to do?

This is how we learn

I was born skeptical, my small "illusions" about the world were quickly crumbled in childhood, my belief rose in myself, cause skepticism was a death to the soul, and belief in something without any substance meant betraying of the soul. Both equal the same out put, i have not been willing to give into either of them

Ive cascaded back in forth through doubt and misconception. C'est La Vie?


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What?

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Re: Visions [Re: Viaggio]
    #2307145 -

Quote:

viaggio said:
I think most of these (visions and hallucinations) have more to do with brain chemistry. 



I think there is something true to this.  I can't do any kind of drugs.  I take Adderall for ADHD, but I can only take the minimum amount because all drugs ultimately make me paranoid.  If my brain chemistry is messed up, I won't need drugs to have visions and hallucinations. 

Want to hear a kind of hallucination (or something) I had the other day?  I was sitting on the plane, while people were boarding, and I looked across the way to where another plane was also loading people. 

I suddenly had the feeling, or something, that I was watching my plane be boarded from a distance, and that I somehow knew that I was on that plane.  It was the weirdest fucking feeling.  As if, although I knew I was sitting where I was sitting, for an instant, I felt like I was sitting on the plane I was watching from a distance.  Made me queezy.  Didn't need drugs for that.  :tongue:

Oh, and Swami, you forgot to mention that trauma in one's personal life can possibly cause hallucinations or visions.  I had a vision, or something to do with the future, when I went through some major trauma a while back.  I believe God showed me what to do, and how it would all work out, if I followed those steps.  I did, and it did.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Visions [Re: Shroomism]
    #2307287 -

back to the subject, we could test this hypothesis by sending swami on a vision quest in the mohave desert

I might actually do that. Five days with nuttin, but water. Am waiting for it to get a little warmer as I don't have good cold weather gear.

As my hunger increases, I will probably have visions of shrimp scampi and steak fajitas...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Visions [Re: CleverName]
    #2307847 -

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