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Invisiblesilversoul7
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The Cold, Hard Truth
    #2305029 - 02/05/04 03:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I touched upon this in one of Swami's threads, but I thought I'd go a little more in-depth on it here. Now, I'm going to sound like a pessimist here, but I assure you that I don't always see the glass as half-empty. However, I feel that there are certain truths that many people just can't handle, and perhaps they're better off left in ignorance.

What if we were to reveal to everyone that their life has no purpose? That there is no justice in this world, and evil people often get rewarded with no backlash while good people suffer? That their so-called democracy is really an expanding corporate dictatorship, and there's not a damn thing they can do to stop it? That humanity is headed on a most-likely irreversible course towards its own self-destruction?

What would happen to those poor souls who find this out? Would they fall into depression? Would suicide rates go up? Or would they simply refuse to believe it, and live in deliberate ignorance? Illusion can be a very comforting thing, which I think is why religion is so important to so many people. The truth can be quite scary at times.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2305035 - 02/05/04 03:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I, for one, would be pleased- the divine mockery of man would finally show. Absurdity is the only viable view on anything- and that would at least be a good step towards it


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2305095 - 02/05/04 03:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"What if we were to reveal to everyone that their life has no purpose? That there is no justice in this world, and evil people often get rewarded with no backlash while good people suffer? That their so-called democracy is really an expanding corporate dictatorship, and there's not a damn thing they can do to stop it"

LMFAO well its the truth! I spose some people just can't handle the truth, so they make up their own world.

Note. I left out the last one ^ because things change. Rapid alterations can happen so we cannot predict the future. Besides everyone has to learn the good and bad exist in harmony. Or more to the point they don't exist at all. It is not one mans job to save the entire world but he may contribute if he desires.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2305096 - 02/05/04 03:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"However, I feel that there are certain truths that many people just can't handle, and perhaps they're better off left in ignorance."

I'm sorry man but I totally disagree. I have great faith in my species :smile: and think they could deal with various truths suprisingly well.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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Anonymous

Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2305099 - 02/05/04 03:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2305107 - 02/05/04 03:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Creating a fairy tale world to only grow up and realise hell on Earth could well be what creates some suicides. <The opposite side of the coin.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: ]
    #2305116 - 02/05/04 03:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Who made us the judge?



Our genes did. We seem to have a biologically inherent tendency to judge others, and do so frequently.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2305120 - 02/05/04 03:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

That humanity is headed on a most-likely irreversible course towards its own self-destruction?

I think this is happening because of mass ignorance.


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Anonymous

Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2305154 - 02/05/04 03:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: ]
    #2305172 - 02/05/04 03:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, there has always been the nature vs. nurture argument. I guess sociological factor are more likely a cause of our judgemental nature, since some people learn to be less judgemental than others, and being a sociology major, I probably should have pointed that out to begin with. Anyway, back to the topic at hand.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2305267 - 02/05/04 03:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2305359 - 02/05/04 04:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"'That humanity is headed on a most-likely irreversible course towards its own self-destruction?'

I think this is happening because of mass ignorance."

I think mass ignorance is happening because of selfishness of both modern leaders and "general public"

The leaders not giving a shit about the people they're supposed to be assisting, looking instead to make a profit for themselves and their business partners.

The "followers" or citizens caring too much about themselves to worry about future generations enough to speak up and attempt to change these leaders

EDIT: I must admit I find it harder and harder year after year to seriously care about the future generations MORE than myself, which is why from a society standpoint my life has been getting better, but from my viewpoint, my life has been getting worse, coming to support the very system I wanted to destroy due to my inability to "find another way" that is practical and at least semi-comfortable.

so far


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (02/05/04 04:12 PM)


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OfflineMrGrib
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2305583 - 02/05/04 04:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

what is this "truth" and what makes you so confident it exists? Maybe you are just hiding behind this false sense of truth, because you are so afraid that there may actually be no such thing as truth. Sounds a lot like religion to me, huh?


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: MrGrib]
    #2305980 - 02/05/04 06:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

if you told someone there is no meaning to life, you would be wrong
if you told someone there is no ONE meaning to life, you would be right

so there is no god. THere is no divine plan. SOmeday the species will die. Someday the sun will go supernova.

But then, someday I will die anyways, weather i live to see the end of the world or the end of the species is irrelevant. THe fact remains that i have been granted time on earth and , in the abscence of a god, or an overuling will, the world is in fact, my oyster.

You think there is no meaning in life? than you simply havent found one yet.

Nothing is true, everything is permitted


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OfflineMrGrib
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2306108 - 02/05/04 07:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

...so is the Tao. Yet the Tao has no beginning and no end, for the Tao always was and always will be.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2306223 - 02/05/04 07:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If you ask me, no amount of dread can stand up to the monstrous wild beast that is the Now.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2307010 - 02/05/04 11:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i always thought that being alive is our purpose.  there's no other reason for keep on keeping on than being alive :lol:

do we really have to define purpose for everything?

"That there is no justice in this world, and evil people often get rewarded with no backlash while good people suffer?"

there is always injustice, as there will always be justice.  it's all here. I'm lucky that I live in an actual home.  i appreciate this.  I am alive and there is nothing I could do about it.  is it just that we keep tabs on what's bad and not what is good? 

I've said this a couple of times, but what if a person actually appreciates what they have.  whether it's family, friends, food, shelter, A COMPUTER even! when you have the essentials of being alive, what's there to worry about really? why does purpose have to rear it's head?

why even look at purpose like that?  what if everyone in the world realized that they have what they "need" this entire time.  we are the result of our own anguish.  what if everyone thought that they are doing what they are meant to do this entire time?

I only ask these because your questions to me are based on opinion.  that's right, you tell me why or why not I'm here.  go ahead and say that you know what is and what isn't.

just BE HERE NOW, is all we really should be doing, but then again, I'm jsut a guy in california, and there are millions of hungry people out there.

see what I'm saying?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineAldous
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2309013 - 02/06/04 04:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I used to believe the universe is meaningless, absurd; an existentialist stance, if you will. I thought it was quite comfortable, for it means you can do anything, it doesn't really matter in the end anyway. Existentialism is probably sheer freedom, but that doesn't make it enjoyable. Comfortable is a better word, at least that's what I experienced.

A few years ago, still being a materialist (in the philosophical sense), I started to get interested in spirituality nonetheless. Thorough study, reflection and experience made me change my stance. I don't want to theorize about God or otherwise metaphysical stuff, but I don't believe anymore that matter is all there is to the universe.
My reaction to this U-turn is ambivalent. In a way, it made my life more wondrous, more enjoyable, deeper. But it also means that there's responsibility, not everything goes.

In the end, it all boils down to this: in a materialistic worldview, you can always pull out the switch and yell 'Game over!'; all you have to do is kill yourself. But if there's more to it all than just matter, suicide is probably not an answer, and you may be doomed to face existence forever, like it or not... :shocked: The aim of the game is to become a master at liking existence, so much so that you become one with it, if that means anything.

As for 'the awful truth' about the world's destiny, I've been pessimistic for many years, and that hasn't changed a bit. I do think that "there is no justice in this world, and evil people often get rewarded with no backlash while good people suffer",  that the "so-called democracy is really an expanding corporate dictatorship, and there's not a damn thing can do to stop it", and that "humanity is headed on a most-likely irreversible course towards its own self-destruction". This used to depress me, but not anymore. I don't feel guilty about it anymore, and I am a much happier person. I just learned to see the good as well as the bad, and enjoy my life as it is: as beautiful as I make it.

So, to answer your questions:
I found out the awful truth, got pretty depressed about it, probably didn't have the balls (or enough good reasons, or deep enough despair) to kill myself, and found some solace in spirituality. But I did not choose deliberate ignorance, I just chose to embrace things as they are. Am I just fooling myself, is this fake happiness? I don't know, but it sure feels way better, for me and for the people around me.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: Aldous]
    #2309070 - 02/06/04 05:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I don't believe anymore that matter is all there is to the universe

yeah there's also energy :smirk:

But I did not choose deliberate ignorance, I just chose to embrace things as they are. Am I just fooling myself, is this fake happiness? I don't know, but it sure feels way better, for me and for the people around me.

well kudos to you for your pragmatic approach to spirituality.
even if it's all nonsense, if it's comforting to you, and those around you and it increases your quality of life, that's all that matters. that's pretty much where I stand, at the moment.
the problem starts when your spirituality turns to dogma and you start thinking that you discovered some "truth" and look down on other people for not "getting" it.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Cold, Hard Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2309087 - 02/06/04 05:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
What if we were to reveal to everyone that their life has no purpose? That there is no justice in this world, and evil people often get rewarded with no backlash while good people suffer? That their so-called democracy is really an expanding corporate dictatorship, and there's not a damn thing they can do to stop it? That humanity is headed on a most-likely irreversible course towards its own self-destruction?

What would happen to those poor souls who find this out? Would they fall into depression? Would suicide rates go up? Or would they simply refuse to believe it, and live in deliberate ignorance? Illusion can be a very comforting thing, which I think is why religion is so important to so many people. The truth can be quite scary at times.





This presumes the fact that you are right, that there is no purpose to life, no justice, etc.  Personally, I am grounded firmly enough in my beliefs that if someone told me that there was no purpose to life, as if they were sharing some deep meaning to the world, I would just shake my head and feel sorry for that person for feeling that way.    :shake:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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