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kreg
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
#27720665 - 04/04/22 10:31 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I apologize for your confusion.
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Kickle
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: kreg]
#27720667 - 04/04/22 10:32 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Well help clear it up? I'm a good listener.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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kreg
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
#27720680 - 04/04/22 10:43 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I feel like no matter what I say you're just going to pick it apart and say "well that isn't right". Is this universe right? Do you think the universe cares whether you think it's right or wrong? Whatever you want to call this ultimate experience we are all in there is no changing it, no going outside of it, no going to a new one, no "after universe"---- I'm not saying "nothing happens when you die" I'm saying whatever the fuck happens it's the exact same shit that is happening right now that we define as life being conscience, sentience, ego, "having a soul" whatever you want to call it. Every universe in a multiverse is still contained within that "multiverse" Being dead isn't going to escape anything
Edited by kreg (04/04/22 10:45 AM)
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Kickle
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: kreg]
#27720684 - 04/04/22 10:47 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Ok. This is my truth for you: I care about what you say. I think it's valid and important. I also don't think your personal views represent absolute truth, nor do I think my views represent absolute truth. And the best that I can do in a discussion such as this is to rely on what is mutually observable for both of us. Because beyond that, there is no discussion.
So yes, I will rely on what can be mutually shared as opposed to one sided. Not that this means a one-sided view isn't valid or important. It just isn't a discussion. It's solipsism.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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kreg
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
#27720687 - 04/04/22 10:52 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Haha you're calling me a solipsist for trying my best to reply to you? Ok thanks thats very respectful of you
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Kickle
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: kreg]
#27720688 - 04/04/22 10:53 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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No. I'm saying that relying on only one view to determine ultimate reality is solipsism.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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kreg
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
#27720693 - 04/04/22 10:57 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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That's not what I said, thanks. Let me try this again :
take all the world views, I won't list them, just list them in your head I don't care. Just because the things in these views have different names doesn't mean they are different things...
cats right? Imagine a cat...... Imagine all the different words for a cat all the different "views" on what a cat is.... no matter what you call it no matter what you believe ultimately it's still a cat - or whatever the hell you choose to call the cat most
please address your confusion more specifically so I can clarify more specifically thank you
Edited by kreg (04/04/22 10:59 AM)
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Kickle
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: kreg]
#27720698 - 04/04/22 11:00 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I understand that what we are experiencing has a potential to be infinite. I also understand that what we are experiencing has a potential to be finite. I also understand that one can find evidence for both.
My confusion lies in this: why should I give weight to either as important?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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kreg
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
#27720701 - 04/04/22 11:06 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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So? Even if you choose to ignore it and believe that neither is important "it's still there" whatever it is.
the mathematical concepts of finite and infinity still exist within the same realm even when the infinite is plotted. I'm no mathematician but I think calculus and trig go into those types of numbers
Edited by kreg (04/04/22 11:09 AM)
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Kickle
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: kreg]
#27720703 - 04/04/22 11:07 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah my stance is that I do not know, and can not know. The things that I can discuss are the things that are mutually shared experiences. I see the rest as largely assumptions for my mental health if anything.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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kreg
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
#27720706 - 04/04/22 11:10 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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...yeah that's everyone. I think that's why they call religions "belief systems" and "faiths"
that includes existentialism too, all belief systems all religions, all of them. All of these animals are in the same zoo.
Edited by kreg (04/04/22 11:11 AM)
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Kickle
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: kreg]
#27720709 - 04/04/22 11:12 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Yes, and to use faith or belief as a discussion point is not useful for mutually shared experience. It's a personal one. A personal coping mechanism. Even if it becomes shared by some or even a majority, it will not be a universal truth because it seems the underlying shared experience is that we cannot know.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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syncro
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
#27720724 - 04/04/22 11:31 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I don't know that I buy that we can't know and no one knows who can tell about it, but it is also easy to say.
Can we experience in meditative or other states what it is like after death? In that like astral travel? From some points of view, these are given to see exactly that. What does self-realization imply?
That which is neti neti, not this.
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Kickle
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: syncro]
#27720726 - 04/04/22 11:32 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Well if you have evidence or a way for it to be mutually shared I'm all ears and have been for a long time.
I think in all seriousness that not knowing isn't a bad thing but rather a good thing. Mystery is often a source of good. It's open, explorative, welcoming and childlike. While knowledge tends to be harmful and the reverse.
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syncro
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: syncro]
#27720741 - 04/04/22 11:42 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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As we hear and know, this kind of incarnation is middling and of suffering. Apart from bodily consciousness things can tend to be very different, free, unhindered, beautiful, expanded, certain.
But it is easy to say "apart from bodily consciousness" when my body still lives and may just be making happy stuff in the physiology.
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Kickle
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: syncro]
#27720745 - 04/04/22 11:43 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Well I would contend that the only thing keeping one from being free, unhindered, and expanded when it comes to dying, is certainty. And the thing that causes us to cling to certainty is fear.
For the record, I am fearful. I often go through the sensation of dying, whether real or simulated doesn't matter because it feels quite real. And the response is definitely one of fear at a certain point - a thought about a loved one, a physiological response, a sense of incompleteness, etc. This is my practice.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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syncro
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
#27720753 - 04/04/22 11:52 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I mean certainty in experience of that freedom, knowing what is true about our nature, like certainty of love. I think I see what you mean though, as in false expectation.
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Kickle
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: syncro]
#27720762 - 04/04/22 11:56 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Ah, yeah, I see. Good stuff
There are always exceptions. But even then I think a lose grip is best
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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redgreenvines
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: syncro]
#27720804 - 04/04/22 12:24 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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certainty is illusion familiarity is the best we get.
I am not familiar with anything suggestive of life after death, and of that I am certain.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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Rahz
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
#27720823 - 04/04/22 12:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I have death anxeity and find it expressed for my own life and for those I care about. And yet I suppose there is nothing after death. Basic postulations are that the "soul" or "spirit" is the output of material existence, a process with expression based on the material thing rather than the material thing itself. There could be a more nuanced consideration but when the material thing ends the process ends.
Whether this is ultimately reasonable I don't know. It's just what makes sense to me. I suppose there's a difference between a near death experience and a death experience. I don't believe in ghosts or demons except the ones in our minds. There's no anecdotal evidence that sways me heavily enough to think there's a good chance I'm wrong.
I tend to see reincarnation as a cyclic process, either through transference of perception via one living being to another, changes/non-changes apparent through the various cycles of living, or the manifestation of similar beings through procreation.
The idea that my personality goes on after death seems fear based/egoic.
Pretty basic stuff I suppose. Materialistic pov in some people's opinion I guess but there is plenty of room for spirituality within those parameters.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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