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InvisibleJohn
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Posts: 7,026
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What happens when you die?
    #2297442 - 02/03/04 03:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

???

Just wondering what some of you guys think, sorry if there have been a million of these threads already, but if there has, well peoples precptions change all the time. maybe some of you have a diffrent idea than you had last time you anwsered the question. thanks for any replies :stoned:

oh yeah you don't have to get into every detail I know sometimes peoples beliefs are hard to express through writing and what not and sometimes just go on a understanding or gut feeling you have, just a general idea of what you think :sun:


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There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2297536 - 02/03/04 03:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

nothing and everything happen all in one moment and for eternity.

lol make sense? doesn't to me either


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2298117 - 02/03/04 06:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The correct answer is


I don't know.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2298146 - 02/03/04 06:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

just make something up

the dead aren't gonna know the difference


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2298397 - 02/03/04 07:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"The correct answer is
I don't know."


right but I don't think he's looking for that answer.... lol I'm usually the first to say "we don't know shit about anything" heh but I think he's looking for cool guesses :wink:

I shouldn't speak for him though


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2298565 - 02/03/04 08:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

How dare you contaminate my profound truth with your meager suppositions!



joke. :lol:

I think you are right.  In time jtryptamine, in time.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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InvisibleJohn
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2298887 - 02/03/04 11:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

yeah i was just looking for your guys therories i already have a good one i think, that involes energy (life/spirit whatever you wanna call it) and carriers (physical body) and how energy is never destroyed just carriers change, change to what, well i have no fuckin clue maybe another human body or maybe something completly incomprenhendable (probably really fucked the spelling of that :tongue:) to our minds at this time or maybe our energy changes carriers everynight, like how do you know you were in the same carrier (physical body) that you were the day before? one would say "what about all my memories and such?" but think about a computer when you power it down and the next morning turn it on again it has a diffrent source of energy but still retains all the files/memory it had the day before. the body would act as a battery of sorts keeping the memory while the energy isn't flowing through it (sleep) and when the battery (body) dies this is what we interpet as death but what is really lost is just a storage file of memories not the energy itself. anyway that's what i believe, your right we'll never now until it happens but i really like thinking about it.


--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2298946 - 02/04/04 12:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

if there is something then it will probably be a good place where we all can hopefully meet up with our passed friends and family. i've got a buddy that is there right now so hopefully he's getting comfortable and making room for me and all my other friends when we go.

if there is nothing when we die then it can't be bad because, well...it is nothing...you know?


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2298999 - 02/04/04 12:18 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The reason I don't really care to discuss life after death is because everyone's theories seem transparent in the sense that they are designed to serve a personal need.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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InvisibleHelp on the Way
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2299001 - 02/04/04 12:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Dude this question drives me nuts. It's crazy because we are all here, and all alive. And we know that death is very real, we know that it happens, and we know it will one day happen to us. But it's crazy that NOBODY here really has any clue about it, even though some people say they are sure they know what happens, i dont know how they could unless they had already died.

I've had level 5 ego loss trips, which is interesting becaue it shows you what it can be to not be. Although i really dont know how similar death is to those because your body is alive the whole time. Right now my closest guess to what death is like is from what ive experienced on my ego loss trips, but i could be totally wrong.

Maybe the best way to see where we are headed is to examine where we've been coming from. What happened before we were born??? Why can't we truely remember anything before we were born? What was there? As far as i know, nothing. My universe was created when my life was created, and maybe the universe will end (or be completed) when i end. However, i cannot remember my birth either, and that doesnt mean it didn't happen. Maybe there was something going on before we were born, but it was just too different for us to understand in human state.

That's a very interesting battery idea. I've never thought about that before. I'm kind of confused about it though. Are we the energy that is powering the computer? So once we leave our memory of our life leaves, but we still are our souls or whatever, just existing in a different state?. Or are we the computer, and the energy running us is the energy of the universe, so once we die, we are gone forever and the energy returns to the universe. Or maybe both?

I dont know if this post made any sense.


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:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Help on the Way]
    #2299049 - 02/04/04 12:28 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Slipknot420 said:
I dont know if this post made any sense.




perfect sense...everything you've said i have pondered...i just never put it into words.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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InvisibleJohn
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Help on the Way]
    #2299196 - 02/04/04 01:18 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

That's a very interesting battery idea. I've never thought about that before. I'm kind of confused about it though. Are we the energy that is powering the computer?




what does we or I actually mean though? physically our body would be the computer and that could be interpited as we or I, but moreso i think actually life itself, like a "soul", not the physical body but just the life source would be considered the energy, in long term the body would really have no purpose other than a channel for the energy to flow and there really isn't such a thing as death as most see it as an end of everything or heaven or hell or whatever because nothing is actually dieing, the carrier has served it purpose and deteroiates but the source in which gave that carrier actual life cannot be destroyed, just like electricty cannot be made or destroyed, just channeled through diffrent means.

Quote:

So once we leave our memory of our life leaves, but we still are our souls or whatever, just existing in a different state?. Or are we the computer, and the energy running us is the energy of the universe, so once we die, we are gone forever and the energy returns to the universe. Or maybe both?




i think both kinda, but another thing to consider is how do you know your carrier didn't die yesterday and now you exsist as a diffrent form and tomorrow you might exist in my carrier and me in yours, like i was saying memory is stored by a computer even while the energy is not present by a battery, and bodys produce energy just like a battery allowing it to retain memories even though the energy is gone while we sleep, when we wake up we are restored with the energy and everything is normal all of our memories are intact yet we are running off a new source of energy. also about deja`vu when you feel as though you have been somewhere or saw something before but your mind says it's impossible because you had never been to that state/country/seen that program or whatever maybe it's because something profound happened to you there like if it's a street than maybe a carrier your energy was in, had died there in a horrible car wreck or something so it left an "imprint" by changing the frequency or something and these thoughts cannot be remembered by will alone since they are not part of your physical body, they are imprinted into your life source and can only be recalled by visually seening something or hearing something that triggers in our carrier the brain that produces that same frequency and we can recall it for a brief second even though we cannot fully understand what happened it just seem familar. I dunno these are just all my crazy thoughts.


Quote:

The reason I don't really care to discuss life after death is because everyone's theories seem transparent in the sense that they are designed to serve a personal need.




true enough like heaven where when you die your in a fantastic place with streets of gold and that kinda stuff i think is just a way for people who are afraid of death to be more comfortable since they believe when they die they will be in such bliss, alot of people couldn't handle life if they thought it had no point and death was actually the end of everything, they would be really scared. just about any therorys on what happens when you die ends in a happly ever after theme but the whole point of these therorys is to be comfortable of death and actually apperciate life without constant fear of when it's going to all end so of course they might be selfish but who cares if they accomplish there intended goal, i live my life without fear and am not afraid of dying at all, infact i'm anxious to figure out what really happens but i'll just wait till my time since i'm not so anxious to kill myself or anything. i like this attitude of embracing death rather than fighting it like some people screaming on there death beads terrified of dying, i just thought some others would have some cool ideas to contribute no matter how outrageous or self centered they may be i find it intersting to see how others precieve the ultimate question, and if they think about it as much as i do.


--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2299244 - 02/04/04 01:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I am enrolled in a class called "Life after death" that talks about this exact thing.

We just watched some documentaries and videos of doctors who have interviewed thousands of people who had NDE's while on the operating table or other disasters where they almost died or died then were brought back.

They most describe a feeling of warmth, love and patience. They often see dead ancestors and close ones. There is often times a journey into heaven or whatever they believe in. Most report having their whole lives flash before their eyes in a moment. Yet they feel everything that they felt in the moment and how they made others feel by their actions.

There is a common theme of a cosmic unity or oneness being experienced.

Most come out being less competitive afterwards, with a sense of compassion for all beings. Also with a greater appreciation of life. Less importance on the mundane, and more emphasis on love and compassion.


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2299384 - 02/04/04 02:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

your brain..for those of us whom it is applicable..releases a shitload of DMT...and then ashwipe's goons kick the door down..and wave M-16s in your face..while the elves are humping your leg...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlinexasino
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2299401 - 02/04/04 03:01 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

as someone who realizes the value of empiricism-scientific method,the only thing i can offer is a bleak,"i dont know".

but as someone who experiences syncronicity,who has probably read the urantia book too many times,who appreciates that i have lived amongst good people who love-love for its own sake(whether or not death is the end),and just because i have a hunch--i believe we DO live in some form after our bodies die.

maybe this is just the kind of place a god would put a creation like us in,so that we might come into our own as a sovriegn being,i.e.,human beings are on a planet in the middle of 'infinity',facing mortality,so that the higher orders of beings can agree that we have worth-we,even in the face of pain and death,and the uncertainty of mortality-"is there a god", still can  recognize,and make a freewill choice,concerning the wonderment of the heavens,mind,AND the social value of ethical living.

If eye were god and i wanted to show all the 'angels',(the first archtypebeings that manifest just after god has 'willed' a universe,  immortal-and not subject to our conditions of existence?),that humans were of any worth as beings--I WOULD PUT THEM(us) ON A PLANET IN THE MIDDLE OF SPACE,AND LEAVE THEM TO THEIR OWN DEVICES.if you want to prove the intrinsic worth of a mortal human species,leave them on their own.i say that there :razz: :heartpump: is enough love evident here on earth,and enough personalities that have been willfully molded in accordance with the idea of love,that, to myself at least,the soul and immortality is somehow self evident.

but like i said at the beginning, I REALLY DONT KNOW  :loveeyes:


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either/or,and/or,both/and?


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Offlinexasino
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: xasino]
    #2299424 - 02/04/04 03:18 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

(playingdevilsadvocateheAr)-and think about it.....if death is just the cessation of self-consciousness and being itself,then the only bad part is the pain which immediately precedes it----a big anti climax.
the poor folks who jumped out of the twin towers-what if,after they jumped, some of them reflected on all the good things they'd ever experienced in their lives,instead of focusing on the fright of plunging towards certain death? the millisecond any of them-you/me hit the ground-theres no time for self reflection,or to experience bodily pain-youre human body is dead-


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either/or,and/or,both/and?


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OfflineVulture
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: xasino]
    #2299513 - 02/04/04 04:25 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

stuff you should read

tibetan book of the dead
god speaks - meher baba (its about the evolution of consiousness and the state of god before creation and all that jazz) < hard to wrap your head around but i felt like i was high as hell and getting higher with the reading of every sentance in that book.


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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OfflineKremlin
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2299522 - 02/04/04 04:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

when we die, we rot.

in terms of saying that body & soul(mind) are 2 seperate things, the powers of sensation or perception and thought, as belonging to man, have never been found but in conjunction with a certain organized system of matter; and therefore, that those powers necessarily exist in, and depend upon, such a system.

Nothing but a precise and definite knowledge of the nature of perception and thought can authorize any person to affirm whether they may not belong to an extended substance which has also the properties of attraction and repulsion (since our material world operates on those bases)

We ought to conclude that the whole man is material unless it should appear that he has some powers or properties that are absolutely incompatible with matter.

A little Joseph Priestly...

The burden of proof rests on the believers that we are simply more than a biologic being.


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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Offlinelostsuitcase
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kremlin]
    #2299568 - 02/04/04 05:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

nothing happens when you die, you become non-existant, your energy and matter get broken down into the soil and become different things through time, you mind....which is all that makes "you" ceases to exist.

or maybe it becomes its own self-contained universe.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2299771 - 02/04/04 08:50 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

when asked "what happens to the arhat upon death?'
the buddha maintained a noble silence...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: lostsuitcase]
    #2300243 - 02/04/04 12:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


nothing happens when you die, you become non-existant, your energy and matter get broken down into the soil and become different things through time, you mind....which is all that makes "you" ceases to exist.




After many trips i came to basically that conclusion which sadened me for a while.


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This is the only time I really feel alive.


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Anonymous

Re: What happens when you die? [Re: baraka]
    #2300264 - 02/04/04 12:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

After many trips i came to basically that conclusion...

same here... except to me, this was liberating.


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Anonymous

Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2300331 - 02/04/04 01:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

for those of us that have had these experiences, know this is as simple as it gets, religion is mass confusion.  www.near-death.com and www.iands.org have a look.  :thumbup:

and for those of you that shroomed and felt like there is no purpose, you didnt let go of your egos, that is the whole point in shrooming!!(this is just my opinion...of course :wink: )

havent you taken 5g or a quarter and left your body?  read level 5 description... MERGING WITH SPACE; satori enlightenment,  :grin: too fucking cool, dont be scarrrrred  :shocked:  :tongue:


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2301293 - 02/04/04 04:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

What happens when you die?




The same thing that happened before you were born....


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Offlined33p
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Spokesman]
    #2301794 - 02/04/04 06:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Wow that is really a great answer. I'll have to use that one next time someone asks that.

And yes i agree that there is an infinite nothingness but of course you cant experience it so its hard to describe.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2301795 - 02/04/04 06:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What's keeping you from finding out yourself? :evil:




jk. Seriously, dude put the knife down. Damnit.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineInfinity
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2302248 - 02/04/04 08:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

In order to answer this question one has to consider what one's identity is right now, as one is alive. I'm currently under the impression that we are not the physical body, the name we give ourselves, our ego, or what we "think" we are. Instead our true identity might be that singularity in time, the infinite NOW, that is everywhere/everything/everyone. It is indestructible. I mean I very well could be wrong about this, but to me it kind of makes sense.

One also has to take into the account the possibility that "the past" is infinite. In other words, the possibility that there was no beginning to our "experience." If it is true that there was no beginning, then all of us, and every other living thing is basically "unborn"... Sure we had a birth in the conventional sense, but the series of "events" leading up to our birth can, conceivably, go all the way back... So if we are unborn, then how can we really die? If we are unborn, then we both 1)can't really exist and 2)never really die. I don't know though, I definitely could be wrong about this.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Spokesman]
    #2302253 - 02/04/04 08:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
Quote:

What happens when you die?




The same thing that happened before you were born....




Except backwards...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2302284 - 02/04/04 09:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Not sure what happens after you die, but hours before you die you find out that you just won the state lottery...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Swami]
    #2302287 - 02/04/04 09:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

as per murphy's law of physical incarnation


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2302363 - 02/04/04 09:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

Spokesman said:
Quote:

What happens when you die?




The same thing that happened before you were born....




Except backwards...




GROSS! There's no fucking way I'm going back inside my mom.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2302492 - 02/04/04 10:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No one Knows for sure...all the time...but many people do experience a momentary grace called 'Assurance.' This is a term used in Christian theology to describe an experience of certainty about one's faith. To have faith is to believe, 'just because,' or as the book BE HERE NOW says:

"You trust the fact that there are Realized Beings...And they said it & therefore you know it to be true...It's not inference any more...It's not an intellectual process...You just accept what they have said...THAT'S FAITH. See: We've gotten so super-sophisticated in our evaluative mechanisms that you question everything you hear. How do you know you're not being hustled? I mean: What was Jesus up to? What's the game man? What's he into?"

BE HERE NOW says further on:

"What you may not understand is: The whole game you have been playing is also based on faith. You have had faith in the rational mind. We are living in a society which is a temple to the rational mind & its products... We still worship our own sense data. It's only when we see the assumptions that we've already been functioning on that we can start to extricate ourselves...You don't seem to understand You Are In Prison. If you are to get out of prison the first thing you must realize is: You Are In Prison. If you think you're free you can't escape."

Now, this take on faith is Also a Gnostic take. It is the same Gnostic take that the writers of 'The Matrix' based their story on. Over the doorway in The Oracle's kitchen was a sign that read 'Temet Gnoses,' which is a Latin version of 'Know Thyself,' or 'Know Self-Control' in the sense of Knowing [Gnosis] how to control one's perception of Reality - including the Reality of one's true Self. The rational mind and the sense data is not the mode of apprehending the Truth. Faith is an 'organ of perception' but it is a Psychospiritual organ, not a physical organ. We all have the capability of employing it, but few know how to trust it so most people struggle on with same old psychophysical equipment. It is like spinning one's tires in the snow, which just digs one into being even more stuck. A completely different strategy could free one, but people are stubborn and stupid about it.

Yoda levitates the space craft from the swamp, and Luke Skywalker exclaims "I don't believe it!," to which Yoda replies without hesitation: ''That is why you fail." We've got the 'Red Pill' in common at the Shroomery, but it is not sufficient by itself.
The 'Red Pill' must be used in conjunction with faith, or one's trip will never leave the psychophysical sphere for the Psychospiritual sphere of Reality that transcends it, and which supplies answers in the form of Assurance. Peace.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2302513 - 02/04/04 10:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yoda levitates the space craft from the swamp, and Luke Skywalker exclaims "I don't believe it!," to which Yoda replies without hesitation: ''That is why you fail."

That is a cute quote, but how far do you take it? Did people die when jumping out of the 911 towers, merely because they just didn't believe in levitation or because gravity and the frailty of human flesh are inalterable facts?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Swami]
    #2302529 - 02/04/04 10:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting, faith 'can move mountains' but it can't provide a soft landing for a falling body...


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Evolving]
    #2302534 - 02/04/04 10:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Taking the phrase "faith can move mountains" too literally is probably not a good thing :wink:


What it probably is intended to mean is that when you put your mind to it, you can accomplish just about anything (within reason, I'm not talking about breaking the laws of physics or anything) :smirk:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2302646 - 02/04/04 10:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I can imagine comming into divine union with "the truth", she is bright and loving, she draws us in until we come into divine union. It is a moment of enlightenment. Then a force expells us from the expierience and we begin somewhere else. Maybe bad karma forces us out, if we were to carry it into the expierence. Perhaops we could remain forever if we were pure.

I keep remembering bits when im stoned. Or is it all imagination? Anyone else "remember"? It's like a memory from outside of time.


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get it all together get like birds of a feather


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Swami]
    #2302656 - 02/04/04 10:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You miss the point. The modern myth of Star Wars uses the same style as the ancient myths - midrash - colorful, supernatural illustrations of impossible physical events to highlight living, yet invisible, inner spiritual realities. Levitation (e.g., walking on water, Ascension into [1st century concept of] Heaven) in Biblical myth is midrash - colorful stories intended to highlight the spiritual significance of Jesus. The empty-tomb narratives of the Gospels - midrash to illustrate a Spiritual Mystery - yet depicted. I do believe in a Resurrection of the "inner man'' to Eternal Life, but I do not expect a reanimation of my physical corpus. Neither did St. Paul who differentiated between the "natural man" and the "inner" or "spiritual man." I do not believe that the Resurrection will 'look like' anything. It will not be a physically observable event like the midrashic illustrations of the Bible 'describe.' To take midrash as literal, observable, physical-historical event is a heresy - it is Fundamentalism - it is "spiritual materialism" (to use the Buddhist Chogyam Trungpa's term). This is why I speak of faith and gnosis, not reason and senses when apprehending Mysteries of faith. I have no 'idea' or 'image' of what Resurrection is - but I believe in Eternal Life as a definite possibility. Sometimes I 'Know' for sure.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: trendal]
    #2302698 - 02/04/04 11:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Or, how about this interpretation: by the time that one is 'given' the faith to move mountains...one has Realized GOD is the ONE who put the mountain there in the first place. There the mountain remains, but one has now ceased to think of oneself as a human ego with grandiose desires...one has Realized one's spiritual Center wherein GOD resides. One's petty desire evaporates in the Face of Reality.
It's about a radical shift in perspective - from the personal to the Transpersonal - from ego to Self - from man's to GOD's.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineCleverName
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2302775 - 02/04/04 11:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

hehe, i like that, "It's about a radical shift in perspective"


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2302782 - 02/04/04 11:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

you just came up with that one didn't ya :wink:


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get it all together get like birds of a feather


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #2302971 - 02/05/04 12:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Nope. Can't take credit for something Ram Dass said in the 70's. The Bible contains Truth - it's just that the Truth is not necessarily what our childish, materialistic minds expect Truth to be.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2302993 - 02/05/04 12:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Bible contains Truth - it's just that the Truth is not necessarily what our childish, materialistic minds expect Truth to be.




I think the truth should be intuitive...


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2303013 - 02/05/04 12:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

and if two people who read the same book reach two completely different truths?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2303091 - 02/05/04 01:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Then they go to war and the one with the "best" interpretation (or most vicious one) wins.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2303101 - 02/05/04 01:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Truth is, two dogs fighting over a bone have more sense than two people fighting over an interpretation of the bible.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineSuperLazy
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2303739 - 02/05/04 05:07 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You return to the stars


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" Don't ration your compassion " - unknown


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #2303834 - 02/05/04 07:29 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

student: sensei, what happens when we die?
master: i don't know.
student: but, you're a zen master! you must know.
master: yes, i am a zen master - but not a dead one!


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2303849 - 02/05/04 07:49 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Truth, which is equivalent to Reality or what is Truly Real, Ultimately Real, is the same as GOD, which is ONE. If the words are impressed with Truth to a "superabundant" degree (Mircea Eliade), then the words can be considered to be Holy, and should exert an influence on the reader. Words of peace, forgiveness, faith, compassion, forgiveness - as a WAY of being are difficult to misinterpret. Other kinds of sayings are certainly open to different interpretations, but I surely would not go to war over the doctrinal difference of whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, or whether it proceeds from the Father and the Son, yet this arguement - The Filioque - caused war and a division between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. I don't care! I can see both arguments based on Holy Scripture. It's an intellectual argument that men died for! Does the outcome effect one's relationship with GOD or with one's fellow humans?! NO. Most people miss the forest for the trees - can't discern the wheat from the chaff. St. Paul's comment about it being shameful for a man to wear his hair long (he had the attitude of every balding man I've encountered when my hair was long since 1966!) does not embody the same spiritual gravity as "Thou shalt not commit murder." But - the frequent translation of that commandment into "Thou shalt not kill," might prevent the mis-interpreter to allow a madman to attack a child if killing him is the only possible means of stopping him. This is why Wisdom is the thing to ask for and develop, and why the 'love of Wisdom' - philosophy - is so important.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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