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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Attention: Blue Meanie
    #2295689 - 02/02/04 11:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Came across this letter from my colleague Tjakko Stijve who is now retired for several years form NEstle, although he still helps me with a few analysis here and there.

This was concerining the potency differences between the Australian blue meanies and the hawaiian ones.



mj


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OfflineAnansi
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Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 312
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2295718 - 02/02/04 11:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Cool letter. Neat that there is a difference between the pan cyans. I have read that you must be careful handling pan cyans because they only have psilocin. When you collected those Haiwain ones did you notice that they could be roughed up a little more like cubes and still stay potent?


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: Anansi]
    #2295728 - 02/02/04 11:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I have picked tens of thousands of Copelandia cyanecens and related Copes. I have a secret method for handling. Even GGreatOne234 collects them as carefully as I do. The less handling and moving while pickling and the fast drying in one day in the sun lets the copes retain 90% of their potency.

Stijve, in a later paper, a paper which Blue meanie has and is also posted somewhere here, found that in 4 volunteer subjects in a controlled environmental setting, all experienced a most rewarding voyage at 1 dried gram and compared that potency to a dried gram of P. semilanceata, or equal to 3 grams of dried cubes.

Only one person in the group of 4 and the two guides, became a LITTLE ILL AND QUEESY WHEN SHE FOUND THAT THE SHROOMS CAME FORM MANURE.

mj


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/24/99
Posts: 8,946
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2295959 - 02/03/04 01:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

wow, that's a cool memo...

mj, any uh, noticeable difference in potency from bioassay, between hawaii's and thailand's Copelandia's???

and what-on-earth is that saying about Pan antillarum?
-"high amounts of urea and detectable levels of serotonin"???

Serotonin in Pan antillarum.. is there enough to do anything to someone if they eat them frequently?

Thanks for posting the paper mj.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #2296725 - 02/03/04 10:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

There are a few hundred shrooms worldwide besides the psilocybian species which have npon-psychoactive trytamines in them as well as many plants.

serotonine and urea a re not psychoactive.

mj

As oifor differences in their potency, again that depends on how the shrooms are handled during picking and how they are transported around int he field.

I carry my bag as an attachement to my arm. The shrooms int he bag are undisp turned like carrying a full cup of coffee but not spilling a drop, meaning the shroms do not move in the bag and leaving the bag open (a paper bag or cardboard ritz box) does the tick. IT protects the shrooms.

Psilocine and psilocybine are in all shrooms present to a certain degree. every shroom, even within the same species has a different proportion of chemicals int hem so each time the potency can be a little different. The only way to quantitate the dosage is to take a dried ounce and crush them adn cap them and then you get equal similar doses.

mj

Of course that would be illegal them to do that.

It wis really best to have the shrooms whole and intact if you store them at home.

Capsules and cu hocolets lead to police interuption of your life.

mj


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 25,082
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #2297935 - 02/03/04 05:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Serotonin in Pan antillarum.. is there enough to do anything to someone if they eat them frequently?




This is from my limited knowledge of the pharmaceutical properties of serotonin:
Although serotonin is one of the brain's own neurotransmitters, it doesn't appear to have any effect when taken orally. I forgot if it was being metabolised (some group being split off the molecule) or if it simply isn't able to pass the barrier into the brain itself. You can read about this in Shulgin's publications, among various other sources.
Anyway, it comes down to this: Serotonin in your shrooms won't do much :smile:

[offtopic]
mj, do you know what mr. Stijve did for Nestle? I'm wondering what Nestle has/had to do with chemical analysis of (psychoactive) mushrooms. Thinking of Nestle, I always think of the chocolate candybars they make, but I don't see a connection to magin mushrooms. Could you solve this riddle for me? :smile:
[/offtopic]


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: koraks]
    #2298251 - 02/03/04 06:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hi, Dr. Stijve worked for Nestles for many years. His basic field of study is trace elements in fungi, arsenic, radio celsium isotopes, especieally after Chernoble.
And also for years in the early 1960s, nestles was intersted in the use of chocolate and mushrooms, according to Aztec Codices, and for creating a headache pill to replace aspirin. I understand back then they droped the headache pill idea becasue they felt they would not be able to keep people from hallucinating.

Anyway, he is retired now and does some work forme once in a while. I will soon post a new paper by hjim on Agaricus Blazei, which I recently posted a whole article here sometime withint he last 9 months or so, with several photographs. Now I have a follow-up article.

I may have placed it in the Advanced Shroom Cult forum or in the grow log forum. or possibly in medicinal shrooms forum since it is a medicinal mushroom.

Here is a picture I took of Tjakko at breitenbush hot springs shroom conference I brought him to in the early 1990s. He has a large shroom in his hand,



and here is one of Tjakko at nestles with some cultivated P. cubensis



Recently he has been publishing many articles in European shroom journals. One journal he contrinutes to greatly is the one in Britain, Suisse, Italian and/or French. It has all three languages in it. BSM or something similar.

He is also an avid lover of edible shrooms, has gigantic postcard and greeting card collection of shroom images from the late 1700s to the present. The real nice cards are formt he later 1800s to the early 1900s.

He has the original amanita card dated 1904 which is used at t one of the shroom websites. He also writes book reviews in mycological journals.

Later I might post some of his works on edible shrooms (photos) and of his post cards and/or greeting card images.

Have a shroomy day.

Check out my post by Stijve on Agaicus Blazei if you can find it in the search engines there. Then i will post the followup article on it.

mj


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/24/99
Posts: 8,946
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: koraks]
    #2298960 - 02/04/04 12:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Although serotonin is one of the brain's own neurotransmitters, it doesn't appear to have any effect when taken orally. 




That is interesting. And that is exactly what i thought.

The reason i enquired about the Pan antillarums, was i wondering about what grows from the earth that contains natural anti-depressants (such as a SSRI serotonin reuptake inhibitors)

I was depressed not-so-long-ago, so i was in this Doctors office, and this lady was trying to prescribe me these drugs.. the lady wasn't professional at all and their office actually could have had a Malpractice suit on their hands (but i won't get into all the gory details about that)

So she was trying to give me a perscription for some pills and i wasn't digging it, i didn't want any pills really

I asked "Well, What exactly is in the pills?"
-Her face looked baffled and she told me;
"There is Serotonin in them."
I said "So, you are telling me that the lab figured out how to produce an exact replica of Serotonin molecules in the brain?"
She said, "Well yes."
I said, "So, this Serotonin, it is edible? Serotonin is what is in these pills, and you eat it and it gives you a boost of Serotonin?
She told me, "Yes."

Well i didn't believe it and the lady thought that i was just being a smart-ass.
Yada-yada-yada, that entire office was full of sh*t and they did several things wrong of which my family could have sued them for Malpractice, but we didn't, and they Dropped me as a patient and blamed everything on me. I swear it was horrible.

:lol:The other doctor before her (same office/practice) Mis-diagnosed me (after a 3 minute talk with him) and spun me out on a anti-depressant which i had a violent reaction to. So he dropped me as a patient.

I've just be searching for reasoning behind those damned pills; they are 100% chemical correct? nothing in nature contains such a thing as SSRI's correct?

Sorry to go off like this on such a cool thread.
Keep shroomin,
GG


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 25,082
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #2299461 - 02/04/04 03:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

That's interesting GG! Myself, I've been taking SSRIs for about three years, but I went 'cold turkey' about a year ago. Also, my sister had been in about the same situation, although she did SSRIs in a somewhat larger dose and for a longer period than me. Eventually, she also quit and appears to be reasonably happy and stable at present :smile:

Anyway, I noticed through the media that, especially in the US, SSRIs are prescribed very easily to anyone who _might_ be helped by them. I've even seen cases of kids (12, 13 years of age) being prescribed SSRIs (Seroxat and whatnot) for their (IMO) teenage-related psychological problems. It has been suggested that many doctors take SSRIs for the Holy Grale of medicine, leading to wide use and misuse of this family of farmaceuticals. Indeed I think that although SSRIs have their uses in certain cases, they are prescribed far too easily and often, often in cases where no proper or thorough diagnosis has been made.

You story, GGreatOne, matches the story above. Really, I'm not surprised, I've stumbled across cases like yours quite some times now (usually people from the US...)

But, the tide appears to be turning. Many people are opening their eyes to the risks SSRIs pose (in some cases patients have become suicidal, but much, much more often nasty side effects are experienced such as intestinal discomfort, anhedonia and much more). Luckily, more and more people see now that SSRIs may help many people in cases of severe depression, but at the same time these medicins come at the cost of aforementioned side-effects, not to mention the fact that they are extremely habit forming and about as hard to get rid of as, say, heroin.

The doctor telling you there was Serotonin in your pills was talking utter bullshit of course. SSRIs are defenitely NOT Serotonin, although the mechanisms they work with are related to Serotonin. That is to say: we THINK that's the case, as we still don't know what SSRIs do exactly. Even the name SSRI is somewhat a gamble, as we really don't know what this stuff does :wink:

I'm happy that you didn't let yourself be tricked by this group of so-called 'doctors', GG. Even if they were right in prescribing you SSRIs, every proper doctor knows that the prescription of some pills is only part of a succesfull treatment, not the whole 'solution.

MJ: Thanks for the info on Dr. Stijve and the Nestle story. I get it now :wink:


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Offlinekenjaman
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Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 48
Loc: Pinellas County, Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2299696 - 02/04/04 07:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Concerning Copes..... this is the only type of shroom that I have found so far (Florida Gulf Pasture). Last summer I noticed a measure of difference in the psychoactive effects in my finds from week to week. As this season approaches - I'm looking to vary my method of storage and find what works best for these little guys. Last year I would pick and store in a paperbag in the refridgerator until Saturday morning when my collection was between 8 - 14 of various size copes.... most being less than 2cm cap. A friend of mine got a food dehydrator for xmas..... should I dry vs. store in fridge....? Opinions please?

Peace, kenjaman.


--------------------
LIFE IS WONDERFUL!!!
Is it god or is it prozac?
Or are they one and the same?

LiC - kenja


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: kenjaman]
    #2300612 - 02/04/04 02:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hi kenjaman,

Read my response to your other post here inthe shroom hunting forum where you ask the same question. My reply is accompanied by photos.

mj


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Anonymous

Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2304208 - 02/05/04 11:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Any actual numbers on the contents?


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: Attention: Blue Meanie [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2309969 - 02/06/04 10:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

sorry for the delay in replying MJ - thanks for that info. Ill make sure i keep that.
As for GG - Seretonin re-uptake inhibators are dangerous - i would never, ever take any anti-depressant prescribed to me by any doctor - its a quick fix that benefits the greedy filth that is the pharm. companies and gets you out of the doctors hair because your so out-of-it you dont realise anything is wrong - and it saves them the time of having to try and work out what is really wrong - in other words treating you properly.


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