Home | Community | Message Board


Everything Mushrooms
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Illogical & Unanswerable Questions
    #2293858 - 02/02/04 12:16 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

*Disclaimer: This post is not meant to be offensive to anyone, so read nothing more into it that exactly what is written.*

If a child asks what purple sounds like, you might chuckle silently to yourself while attempting to explain that the question itself is unanswerable because it doesn't make sense.

Many questions asked on this board, while semantically and grammatically correct, also make no sense.

This same child asks, "Daddy, where does the music go?" after you turned off the CD player. You attempt to explain (using different words) that it does not go anywhere; that it is an emergent property of a system that includes a power source, a player, a medium, a sound generator and an observer. You further explain that if any piece is missing or malfunctioning or not functioning then there is no music.

Now when it comes to life and humans, similar questions seem to make more sense, but on a deeper look, I contend they are of a similar nature.

Let's take a fictional man, Al Smith, on his journey through life. Al's parents copulate and an egg is fertilized and an embryo forms which becomes a fetus and so on. One frequent question crops up at this point that is unaswerable because it doesn't make sense, "When does the soul enter fetus Al's body?" Life is a continuum, not a clearly marked starting line. Nothing needs to be "added" at any point for AL to function except for biofuel.

Moving along, Al becomes a baby, then a child, then an adult, (all linguistic markers that are used for convenience, but have no real meaning) then a faltering senior. When looking at the ailing old man, does one ask where the child AL went or is the question itself in error? Is not Al an emergent property of a biological system just like the music? When Al gets Alzheimers (no pun there folks) and cannot remember faces and has trouble with words, people might say that he is no longer "himself". When was he ever himself? Al was always a product of a bio-mechanical system which just now happens to be decaying / malfunctioning.

Al finally dies and the seemingly logical, but wrong-headed question gets asked, "Where did Al go?" The same "place" that the music went to.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: Swami]
    #2294078 - 02/02/04 01:49 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

So when we die we go to the place where the music is?!? Sweet!


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: chunder]
    #2294094 - 02/02/04 01:58 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: Swami]
    #2294139 - 02/02/04 02:19 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

so Al is recorded digitally or magnetically somewhere, waiting for somebody to push "play" again?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: Strumpling]
    #2294154 - 02/02/04 02:26 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

No, Al is defunct and beyond repair. A new system must be biologically replicated (his children) which will have similar, but different emergent properties.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,276
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: Swami]
    #2294177 - 02/02/04 02:38 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

One life cycle is just like one track of the whole record Swami. Even when it ends, it loops back to the first track or it's endless but just the one working with the cd player knows it.
Too bad we can only hear one track on each life but anyway, the good part is we hear it on first hand ....

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: ]
    #2294244 - 02/02/04 03:09 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

there is an immaterial component to human beings

there is an immaterial aspect to music as well, when taken as a whole, but still, it's made up of individual notes, and those notes can further be reduced to nothing more than zeros and ones.

you know, we're living in the Information Age, everything can and HAS been reduced to zeros and ones. sorry.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: Swami]
    #2294261 - 02/02/04 03:15 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Al was always a product of a bio-mechanical system which just now happens to be decaying / malfunctioning.




How can you say that with any certainty?

What if the biomechanical system was a product of Al?

Correletion is not causation.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2294282 - 02/02/04 03:24 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

What if the biomechanical system was a product of Al?

that's the central question isn't it?

there's really no way to know that with 100% certainty, despite what anyone might say. but we do know these things:

1. disrupting the biomechanical system has an effect on Al (drugs, NDEs, etc.)
2. the biomechanical system can exist without Al, but not vice versa (as far as we know)

you might ask, can't Al also effect his biomechanical system? by the force of his WILL? yes certainly.. but what is will? is it something that is independent of the biomechanical system or something that arises out of it?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2294314 - 02/02/04 03:42 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

they still have yet to locate the "executive" area of the brain. Not to mention long-term memory storage.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
King of Asides
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,930
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: Swami]
    #2294426 - 02/02/04 04:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If a child asks what purple sounds like, you might chuckle silently to yourself while attempting to explain that the question itself is unanswerable because it doesn't make sense.

The question may make no sense to me...but it would make perfect sense to another human with synesthesia :wink:

Which makes the question neither illogical or unanswerable in absolute terms...only illogical in a relative sense.


--------------------
BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2294474 - 02/02/04 05:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

they still have yet to locate the "executive" area of the brain. Not to mention long-term memory storage.

Obviously you aren't very familiar with the concept of the parallel distributed processor...


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2294502 - 02/02/04 05:21 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yep, and it's like they say, there are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that don't. :lol:


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: ]
    #2294610 - 02/02/04 05:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: trendal]
    #2294620 - 02/02/04 05:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: Swami]
    #2294656 - 02/02/04 06:07 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I was responding to "'Where did Al go?' The same 'place' that the music went to."

Well the music stayed right on the medium it was playing from, awaiting another push of the button to continue its journey or start over :wink:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2294658 - 02/02/04 06:07 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

lol. hey I like your base 10 post. I disagree with you about base ten being perfect though and you'll see why.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: ]
    #2294671 - 02/02/04 06:10 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

No one has evidence yet that leads us to conclude the brain is a sufficient condition for consciousness

the brain isn't a "sufficient condition" for consciousness!?

go and get yourself a lobotomy.
no brain = no consciousness.
what more evidence do you need?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepsyka
Praetorian
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2294715 - 02/02/04 06:20 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

A body without the brain is like a radio wi thout a tuner.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Illogical & Unanswerable Questions [Re: ]
    #2294723 - 02/02/04 06:22 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Question for you science junkies
( 1 2 all )
silversoul7 970 20 12/08/04 01:16 AM
by LunarEclipse
* questioning anothers beliefs is wrong in MRP
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Temptress 6,785 152 04/15/06 12:38 AM
by BlueCoyote
* Questions
( 1 2 all )
MystikMushroom 1,829 33 06/20/06 11:50 PM
by Schwammel
* Questions & Answers
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Lord_of_Fungus 6,592 78 03/19/04 08:26 PM
by SkorpivoMusterion
* What's illogical?
( 1 2 all )
Phluck 1,285 34 11/09/05 02:50 AM
by raytrace
* Rapists & Psychological Disorder...
( 1 2 all )
nubious 1,888 31 05/17/04 07:59 PM
by MikeOLogical
* Heaven & Hell
( 1 2 3 all )
spooky123 2,741 50 08/31/04 09:31 PM
by kaiowas
* Physics and Unanswered Prayers
( 1 2 3 all )
OrgoneConclusion 3,610 41 07/03/07 11:17 AM
by factory81

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
7,652 topic views. 2 members, 10 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Original Seeds Store - Cannabis Seeds
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 21 queries.