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InvisibleLoyola10
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Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 863
Re: Trump [Re: viktor]
    #22930896 - 02/21/16 05:24 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
If you're charitable to people, they commit less gun violence.



Most of the gun deaths in the US are suicides.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump [Re: Loyola10] * 1
    #22931029 - 02/21/16 06:01 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Loyola10 said:
Quote:

viktor said:
NO ONE wants to prevent anyone from making a lot of money.  The idea is that if you ever get filthy rich (and I hope you do), you need to pay a little more taxes.  You'll still get to be filthy rich.



Oh well thats totally different. As long as market capitalism is still in place I'd be fine with paying a reasonable tax rate. Going all soviet russia though I think would be a bad idea and I see alot of leftists going down that road which makes me leery.



No one that I'm aware of on the political forum wants communism, yet most of the conservatives here like to make believe that we do.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleLoyola10
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Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 863
Re: Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22931035 - 02/21/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Loyola10 said:
Quote:

viktor said:
NO ONE wants to prevent anyone from making a lot of money.  The idea is that if you ever get filthy rich (and I hope you do), you need to pay a little more taxes.  You'll still get to be filthy rich.



Oh well thats totally different. As long as market capitalism is still in place I'd be fine with paying a reasonable tax rate. Going all soviet russia though I think would be a bad idea and I see alot of leftists going down that road which makes me leery.



No one that I'm aware of on the political forum wants communism, yet most of the conservatives here like to make believe that we do.



Well maybe not on this board but in general. If Bernie wins it could be slippery slope toward communism.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Trump [Re: Loyola10] * 2
    #22931525 - 02/21/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Trump is capitalizing on what many people perceive as the indignities forced on them by a government that doesn't care, and rightly so.  He plays on the fact that politicians seem willing to let millions of illegal aliens overrun the US at the expense of the American Citizen.  That politicians are will to allow companies to fuck their workers by bringing in cheap labor or exporting the work abroad.  He is telling people that the government is full of cronies and corruption that work hand in hand in fucking americans, and that no one has the balls to stand up to terrorists.  He is right....



BUT....lets see what hes done.  He's taken all the hot-potato issues, the ones that just about every american agrees on, (The critical ones) and rolled them into 'Trumpism' and claims he is the one who will  do it, and the people are going for it.


Lets examine reality:

1) He is claiming to be a 'Republican' 
  Question:  When did he change?  He was a D in the past when he supported hillary et al.

2)  He says there is corruption in government, i.e. cronyism.
    ---YET, he brags about buying and selling politicians himself. When did he change?

3)  He claims he is for the american worker.
      Question:  Why then has he imported thousands of 'guest workers' to staff his casinos at quite a bit better than minimum wage?

4)  He claims to be against the corporate handouts;
      --yet, he SUCKED BIG ETHANOLS COCK trying to win Iowa

5)  "hILLARY IS A GOOD WOMAN"


6)  He claims he is a bible thumper when it comes time for SC.... :rofl:

7)  He doesnt respond with ideas and policies, he repsonds with threats and derogatory statements when debating other candidates.

8)  He lies through his teeth, and has been caught over and over again in the lies, yet accuses his opponents of lying about that.

Maybe he will take charge and do some good.  But the more I look at him, the more I see an arrogant, self-centered BLOWHARD who is nothing more than a fascist playing populist who will say anything to get control of the country.


--------------------


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Trump [Re: viktor]
    #22932544 - 02/22/16 05:40 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
If you're charitable to people, they commit less gun violence.




Most gun violence is suicide, I guess people weren't charitable enough to them...

I notice you ignored the part about Haiti, so I'll ask again, why is your country so greedy and selfish???


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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InvisibleHindi420


Registered: 12/09/15
Posts: 168
Loc: Western Europe
Re: Trump [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22934210 - 02/22/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Lol, everybody outside the US is just thinking "what the fuck".



Now he even won in South Carolina. I'm afraid of the pre-election round on 1st March.


--------------------
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose"

-Janis Joplin


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,817
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Trump [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #22935636 - 02/22/16 10:23 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
You're assuming Americans don't already do this, we are charitable, just some of us don't want it to be through govt.





Do you know why Social Security was enacted?  It was because charity isn't reliable, and the country had huge problem with crippling poverty among the elderly.  Unlike relying on charity, by funding SSI through a payroll tax, the govt forced everyone to have some skin in the game and to take some responsibility for their old age.  Unlike charity, SSI was and still is wildly and reliably successful at its primary purpose, which is to keep the elderly from being homeless and starving.


--------------------


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22937092 - 02/23/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-donald-trump-s-tax-plan

Quote:

Trump’s tax plan would substantially lower individual income taxes and the corporate income tax and eliminate a number of complex features in the current tax code.
Mr. Trump’s plan would cut taxes by $11.98 trillion over the next decade on a static basis. However, the plan would end up reducing tax revenues by $10.14 trillion over the next decade when accounting for economic growth from increases in the supply of labor and capital.
The plan would also result in increased outlays due to higher interest on the debt, creating a ten-year deficit somewhat larger than the estimates above.
According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, the plan would significantly reduce marginal tax rates and the cost of capital, which would lead to an 11 percent higher GDP over the long term provided that the tax cut could be appropriately financed.
The plan would also lead to a 29 percent larger capital stock, 6.5 percent higher wages, and 5.3 million more full-time equivalent jobs.
The plan would cut taxes and lead to higher after-tax incomes for taxpayers at all levels of income.




--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22937095 - 02/23/16 11:46 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
You're assuming Americans don't already do this, we are charitable, just some of us don't want it to be through govt.





Do you know why Social Security was enacted?  It was because charity isn't reliable, and the country had huge problem with crippling poverty among the elderly.  Unlike relying on charity, by funding SSI through a payroll tax, the govt forced everyone to have some skin in the game and to take some responsibility for their old age.  Unlike charity, SSI was and still is wildly and reliably successful at its primary purpose, which is to keep the elderly from being homeless and starving.




Social security is a Ponzi scheme, the same thing that sent Bernie Madoff to prison...


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22937186 - 02/23/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
You're assuming Americans don't already do this, we are charitable, just some of us don't want it to be through govt.





Do you know why Social Security was enacted?  It was because charity isn't reliable, and the country had huge problem with crippling poverty among the elderly.  Unlike relying on charity, by funding SSI through a payroll tax, the govt forced everyone to have some skin in the game and to take some responsibility for their old age.  Unlike charity, SSI was and still is wildly and reliably successful at its primary purpose, which is to keep the elderly from being homeless and starving.




Social security is a Ponzi scheme, the same thing that sent Bernie Madoff to prison...




no it isn't.  SSI is old age insurance.  You pay in while you are working, and you get paid after you retire from the workforce.  Your benefit totals correlate directly to the wages you earned in the workforce (from whence your contribution came). 

so, now that that is over with, would you care to address my point about the difference between social programs and charity?

Quote:

Do you know why Social Security was enacted?  It was because charity isn't reliable, and the country had huge problem with crippling poverty among the elderly.  Unlike relying on charity, by funding SSI through a payroll tax, the govt forced everyone to have some skin in the game and to take some responsibility for their old age.  Unlike charity, SSI was and still is wildly and reliably successful at its primary purpose, which is to keep the elderly from being homeless and starving.




--------------------


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22937211 - 02/23/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Sure, if social security taxes were allowed to be invested, instead of put into the general fund of greedy politicians, the elderly would come out much better off.

You can yap all day about the failures of "charity" but what you'll never admit to is the failure of govt in this instance. The money that was supposed to be used for social security, was raided and spent. It was a betrayal of the American people. The money being given out today is being borrowed from the taxpayers who haven't even been born yet.


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22937742 - 02/23/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Sure, if social security taxes were allowed to be invested, instead of put into the general fund of greedy politicians, the elderly would come out much better off.

You can yap all day about the failures of "charity" but what you'll never admit to is the failure of govt in this instance. The money that was supposed to be used for social security, was raided and spent. It was a betrayal of the American people. The money being given out today is being borrowed from the taxpayers who haven't even been born yet.




Jesus christ, how many times do we have to go over this?  SSI has a trust fund that is REQUIRED to invest in US Treasury products.  The money isn't just put into a "general fund".  The money being paid out today is being paid from that trust fund, not by borrowing anything from anyone.


--------------------


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OfflineTipote
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22940044 - 02/24/16 08:05 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22940105 - 02/24/16 08:47 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Sure, if social security taxes were allowed to be invested, instead of put into the general fund of greedy politicians, the elderly would come out much better off.

You can yap all day about the failures of "charity" but what you'll never admit to is the failure of govt in this instance. The money that was supposed to be used for social security, was raided and spent. It was a betrayal of the American people. The money being given out today is being borrowed from the taxpayers who haven't even been born yet.




Jesus christ, how many times do we have to go over this?  SSI has a trust fund that is REQUIRED to invest in US Treasury products.  The money isn't just put into a "general fund".  The money being paid out today is being paid from that trust fund, not by borrowing anything from anyone.




How much is in that "trust fund"?  :lol:


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
    #22940218 - 02/24/16 09:36 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

at the end of FY2014, the OASI trust fund balance was ~2.7 trillion dollars

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4a1.html


--------------------


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Offlineqman
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22940244 - 02/24/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
at the end of FY2014, the OASI trust fund balance was ~2.7 trillion dollars

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4a1.html




You're hilarious.  :rofl2:

Are you interested in purchasing any bridges?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
    #22940365 - 02/24/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

i assume that you are implying that the government accounting is fraudulent.
do you have some other numbers to dispute them with?


--------------------


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Offlineqman
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22940429 - 02/24/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
i assume that you are implying that the government accounting is fraudulent.
do you have some other numbers to dispute them with?




You do realize that the "trust fund" only exists in theoretical terms?

It's a pay as you go system.  http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/StreetTalk/alan-greenspan-national-debt-social-security-trust-fund/2015/06/07/id/649228/

http://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-the-social-security-trust-fund/

"any leftover SS revenue finances general government operations"


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
    #22940530 - 02/24/16 11:28 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

from your second link.

Quote:

On the recommendation of Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau, the Social Security Amendments of 1939 created an Old Age and Survivors’ Insurance Trust Fund at the Treasury. This was done for the express purpose of ending the controversy. Testifying before the Senate Finance Committee during the hearings on the amendments, Social Security Board Chairman Arthur Altmeyer stated that the purpose of the trust fund was “to allay the unwarranted fears of some people who thought Uncle Sam was embezzling the money.”

Social Security revenues go into the Treasury’s general fund and are automatically credited to the Trust Fund in the form of Treasury bonds. The Treasury pays Social Security benefits and administrative outlays out of general revenue and debits the Trust Fund an equivalent value of bonds. Any leftover Social Security revenue finances general government operations, with an equivalent value of bonds remaining in the Trust Fund as Social Security’s “surplus;” to cover any revenue shortfalls.19 This is how a Treasury account, not a trust fund, works. And calling a Treasury account a “trust fund” to influence public opinion does not make it one.




ok, so it is called a trust fund, but it isn't(?) a trust fund?  fine. The fund is invested in treasury products? yeah, i said that already. In fact, this whole article simply describes what i explained earlier in greater detail, so thanks, good post!  from now on lets refer to the OASI trust fund as the OASI Treasury account.

Now, from your first link

Quote:

The United States Social Security Administration collects payroll taxes and uses the money collected to pay Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance benefits via trust funds.

When the program runs a surplus, there will be excess funding available for the Social Security Administration that year. The excess funds are diverted to one of the trust funds.

The money in the trust fund is used by the treasury in the form of treasury bonds. The treasury bonds provide interest on the money in the trust funds, and if the program sees a deficit, the excess funds from previous years plus any interest earned is used to pay beneficiaries. The trust funds do not represent a legal obligation to Social Security program recipients, and Congress could cut or raise taxes on such benefits if it chooses.

The trust fund that supports Social Security's disability program is projected to run out of money late next year, triggering automatic benefit cuts, unless Congress acts.





Mostly the same stuff here, though they mention in a roundabout way that OASI and SSDI "Treasury accounts" are held separate by law.


--------------------


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22940762 - 02/24/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

The point being is that SS is a pay as you go system, it works as long as people continue to work and contribute to the SS payroll tax.

The surpluses from years past has already been spent, that's OK, even when SS has a negative cash flow year like it did 5 years ago, the government just goes into the general funding to make up the difference. Or at the end of the day, the government will just issue debt to pay for the shortfall.

There is no real "trust fund" of $2.3 trillion dollar, politicians of the past 50 years were never that fiscally responsible.  :shrug:


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