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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jungian Analysis of Maria Sabina's Chant. [Re: Amidst Eridanus]
#22892898 - 02/11/16 07:13 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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In my personal walk, I'm much more the Mythicist than the Anthropologist. I'm not an expert on myth, but the mythic themes are the Big themes which are less veiled than the folkloric or fairytale realms and I don't have the time or influence by any specific tradition to dawdle on the way. This is why I object to self-proclaimed shamen (on this site). Some of us read the first few Carlos Casteñeda books when they first came out in out late teens/early 20s, and played shaman when we took acid. We we're still in adolescence. Might as well have taken Dungeons & Dragons seriously.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Jaegar
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I friken loved D@D lol. Pool of Radiance my first taste of that drug.
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Amidst Eridanus
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That's understandable but I think to skip over folklore and fairy tale is to miss a chance at discovering another mythic constant. I also agree that getting immersed in them isn't productive so keeping an objective scientific standpoint is what I'm shooting for.
-------------------- It is better to travel well than to arrive.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jungian Analysis of Maria Sabina's Chant. [Re: Amidst Eridanus]
#22893451 - 02/11/16 09:23 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Amidst Eridanus said: That's understandable but I think to skip over folklore and fairy tale is to miss a chance at discovering another mythic constant. I also agree that getting immersed in them isn't productive so keeping an objective scientific standpoint is what I'm shooting for.
Just put on The Blacklist, 'Lady Ambrosia (No. 77). Have you watched it yet? An evil fairytale character who is apparently manifested as a real person who takes children and......I'll get back to you.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jungian Analysis of Maria Sabina's Chant. [Re: Amidst Eridanus]
#22893555 - 02/11/16 09:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I AM interested in folklore, fairytales, magickal traditions. These were all part of my Jungian analysis and preparation for becoming an analyst (which didn't happen). I have a number of books on Celtic, Scandinavian, Russian, and other culture's fairytales plus the Brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Anderson (which I think I'm going indulge in shortly). But it is the big myths of the West that predominate in my psyche: Birth, Death, Judgement, Resurrection/Rebirth, Ascension, Myth of the Eternal Return, etc. that are more determining of my spiritual life. They depict Transcendental themes over the more chthonic concerns that fairytales frequently illustrate. However, in an archetypal way, a cannibalistic witch is an archetype which manifests in varying cultural guises whether it the witch in the German Hansel and Gretel who lives in a gingerbread house, or the Russian Baba Yaga who flies around in a giant mortar and pestle and lives in a circular cottage standing on chicken feet with a fence of glowing-eyes skulls around it. The central figure is the archetype, the cultural idiosyncrasies form interesting but peripheral details around certain archetypal and universal sub-personalities that belong to discrete sectors of the (in this case) female psyche - the 'Old Witch' of 'The Terrible Mother.'
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Amidst Eridanus
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Ok, interesting. What is the diagram of? Have you applied the archetype theory to any eastern folklore or philosophies yet?
-------------------- It is better to travel well than to arrive.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jungian Analysis of Maria Sabina's Chant. [Re: Amidst Eridanus]
#22895956 - 02/12/16 01:30 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Amidst Eridanus said: Ok, interesting. What is the diagram of? Have you applied the archetype theory to any eastern folklore or philosophies yet?
The diagram is from this book: http://www.amazon.com/Great-Mother-Analysis-Archetype/dp/B008Y00IU0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455307308&sr=8-1&keywords=neumann%2C+the+great+mother It applies to the various archetypal aspects of The Feminine, and West or East aren't separate at his level. There are differences in the valences of symbols East and West. For example, the Tiger and Dragon symbols like the scars burned onto the forearms of Kwai Chang Kane (David Carradine) in the TV show Kung-Fu are important in Taoist Yoga. The Tiger would be a solar symbol in the West owing to its bright orange-yellow coloring, but in China it is the feline-feminine character which makes it a Yin-feminine symbol. Similarly, a Dragon in Western Hermeticism is a lunar, watery, dark, serpentine symbol, but in Chinese symbolism it carries the value of Yang-masculine, especially if it's a fire-breathing Dragon (Fire being opposite to Water).
I read all four of The Masks of God by Joseph Campbell, but I see myself as a Mythicist primarily in the sense of reading scriptural writings as mythic rather than as historical. I do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of world mythologies, East or West. I have also been more interested in the application of Greek myth to human personality type as illustrated in Dr. Jean Shinoda-Bolen's amazing books Gods in Everyman and Goddesses in Everywoman. These books described the characteristics of the gods and goddesses of Greek antiquity to help people identify the archetypal influences in their own lives as depicted by the classic Greek gods of antiquity. For example, I have a good measure of Hermes (I am a 'soul-guide,' a 'psychopomp' as a psychotherapist) and Apollo (I have a logical mind), definitely a measure of Dionysus (I have tumbled down leafy slopes in the woods with a jug of wine, tripped for 45 years, etc.), some Hephaestus (I can build and repair things to some extent), and a tiny drop of Ares. (I never got past yellow belt in two different martial [from Mars, Ares in the Roman pantheon] arts. I am not a fighter). I have no Zeus qualities (he was a womanizer, he fathered many children, some through rape, and could be a bully). Poseidon and Hades are also father archetypes which I lack in my particular constitution. I remember meeting a kid in my brother's dorm briefly who sized me up as being "more of a brother than a father." Very insightful of him, truly intuitive!
Analytical psychology translates colorful stories and images into usable psychological qualities to be balanced by increase or decrease. Gillette & Moore's books (I've read a set of five including this: http://www.amazon.com/King-Warrior-Magician-Lover-Rediscovering/dp/0062506064/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455308943&sr=8-1&keywords=gillette+%26+moore also use Jungian archetypes in a different vein for assessing the archetype of The Masculine.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Amidst Eridanus
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Thanks for the resource links! Did you say you were a psychoanalyst with 45 years tripping experience? That's almost twice as long as the amount of time I've even been alive!
-------------------- It is better to travel well than to arrive.
Edited by Amidst Eridanus (02/12/16 04:55 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jungian Analysis of Maria Sabina's Chant. [Re: Amidst Eridanus]
#22898432 - 02/13/16 01:24 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Psychotherapist with a lot of training in Analytical [Jungian] Psychology, without a diploma in Analytical Psychology. So instead I've focused on Hypnotherapy since 1989. It's not your fault that you're half my age, that will be remedied if you live long enough. I took my first trip with Heavenly Blue Morning Glory seeds in June of 1971 after I graduated from high school, and my fist Windowpane (probably 300 mcgs) on July 1, 1972. Come to think of it, I saw the Grateful Dead for the first time later that month, and one month later to the day of my first trip, on August 1, 1972, I saw the Grateful Dead in the same venue, on Jerry Garcia's 30th birthday, at Roosevelt Stadium, Jersey City, NJ. The Grateful Dead played their last show on my birthday on July 9, 1995 (I was not there). This stuff is all connected. I saw my last Grateful Dead show in Highgate, VT on July 13, 1994 sandwiching 22 years of going to their shows between 1972 and 1994. (Well, you seemed to be interested in our relative ages. It's all just numbers, nothing personal, just meaningful in terms of connections).
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Amidst Eridanus
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That's a lot of valuable experience! That is the main reason for my interest in our ages. Have you come to any conclusions about all this mind junk yet? :P
-------------------- It is better to travel well than to arrive.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jungian Analysis of Maria Sabina's Chant. [Re: Amidst Eridanus]
#22908734 - 02/15/16 06:32 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Amidst Eridanus said: That's a lot of valuable experience! That is the main reason for my interest in our ages. Have you come to any conclusions about all this mind junk yet? :P
What are you referring to as "mind junk?"
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Amidst Eridanus
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I was being playful, like math junk, space junk, science junk, mind junk.
What the heck is consciousness doing here?
-------------------- It is better to travel well than to arrive.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jungian Analysis of Maria Sabina's Chant. [Re: Amidst Eridanus] 3
#22909263 - 02/15/16 08:04 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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No conclusions, they're like beliefs and dogmas. There is only praxis based on what I know about in the present, my experimentation with the knowledge, and whether or not it works. I DO make the assumption that Consciousness (or Spirit or God) constitutes Ultimate Reality and everything derives its existence from this Reality with varying degrees of conscious participation in it.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Amidst Eridanus
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Ah, I see. I don't mean to simplify your position but is it safe to assume that the position you hold on reality & consciousness is something like Absolute Idealism?
-------------------- It is better to travel well than to arrive.
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DividedQuantum
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: No conclusions, they're like beliefs and dogmas. There is only praxis based on what I know about in the present, my experimentation with the knowledge, and whether or not it works. I DO make the assumption that Consciousness (or Spirit or God) constitutes Ultimate Reality and everything derives its existence from this Reality with varying degrees of conscious participation in it.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jungian Analysis of Maria Sabina's Chant. [Re: Amidst Eridanus]
#22909717 - 02/15/16 09:29 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Amidst Eridanus said: Ah, I see. I don't mean to simplify your position but is it safe to assume that the position you hold on reality & consciousness is something like Absolute Idealism?
I hesitate to agree, not to appear wishy-washy, but to not be cubby-holed with a philosopher like George Berkeley with the down-side of "anti-realism," but I have 'tested' on one of those Facebook quizzes to be highly Kantian, and I am Platonic after Plato's systematizing by the Neoplatonist Plotinus - if any of this matters.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Amidst Eridanus
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Just trying to orient my thoughts, I'm interested in this sort of thing--the movement of ideas through different times and walks of life.
-------------------- It is better to travel well than to arrive.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jungian Analysis of Maria Sabina's Chant. [Re: Amidst Eridanus]
#22909989 - 02/15/16 10:24 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Amidst Eridanus said: Just trying to orient my thoughts, I'm interested in this sort of thing--the movement of ideas through different times and walks of life.
Well, my philosophical position has formed around the most profound psychedelically elicited experiences on the order of mysticism. This personal formation began in 1973 when I was 20.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Amidst Eridanus
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Did you have any mystical, philosophical, or religious inclinations before coming in contact with psychedelics? I guess what I want to know is how much of the experiences were influenced by prior beliefs, and how much of it is from psychedelics. Did you do a sort of mapping of ideas onto the experiences, or did the experiences influence the type of beliefs you've held or still hold?
-------------------- It is better to travel well than to arrive.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jungian Analysis of Maria Sabina's Chant. [Re: Amidst Eridanus]
#22910653 - 02/16/16 03:14 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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The experiences, in all honesty, may have been colored by what I was reading, but I was reading in different traditions. I came from a secular Jewish background, and except for a very early childhood fascination during a Jewish service of the red glowing lamp that my dad said was the "Eternal Light," and being told gospel stories by my BFF in early childhood, I had no spirituality. I also remember doodling crucifixes in 12th grade in class, and having a dream my first semester in college about offering Jesus morphine while he was on the cross. These were inklings of unconscious contents coming to consciousness. Something similar happened with the biblical Saul/Paul.
But I was reading both Christian and Tibetan Buddhist mysticism the same day the MOST profound experience of my life occurred. I was using very mild LSD microdots to basically microdose for reading all day. I was down, had eaten supper with my folks, went upstairs to my room to meditate and that's when I vanished and the Clear Light of Unbearable Compassion dawned. It was an explanation of the Great Mantra in Lama Govinda's Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism that best described my experience (which I have elaborated elsewhere and do not wish to repeat here). Nevertheless, the experience could also be seen, albeit with less specific details, as a Jewish or Christian experience of the divine "I AM," sans the burning bush or Johannine proclamations by Jesus.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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