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InebriaveritSaepe
Jack of all trades
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Hydroponics plus mycology?
#22875185 - 02/07/16 12:56 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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So, my experiments with growing shrooms has ignited a passion for mycology in me, and I have also gained an interest in aquaponics. I have an idea to start growing mushrooms and fruit/veggies in a small store and sell the produce. I've got more details if anyone's interested, but my question is this: is there a way to incorporate the two together, to the benefit of one or both? I know tilapia can eat spent substrate, so I'm already planning on using it as a dietary supplement.
My thoughts were on using the water from the AP setup to dunk the substrates. first off, I know constantly wet substrate is bad because of lack of oxygen to the mycelium, and standing water becoming a breeding ground for contams, but would running filtered(although not clean, there would be bacteria, fish wastes, and nutrients) water through a tank of water with cakes work if the water was oxygenated enough? or would the mycelium still drown? I thought maybe I could put a permanent fruiting/dunk tank after the plants and before the fish, so any myelium that fell off would be fish food and some of the nutrients would have been sapped out by the plants. does this sound viable? I know it's not the best thought out idea, but on the surface it seems decent. Not sure, but if I could do this it might be beneficial as an all-in-one food growing system(Fish, fruit/veggies, mushrooms)
So, experienced mycologists, is a contantly floating island of mycelium viable if the water has enough oxygen and doesn't allow harmful bacteria or mold to grow in/on the cakes? if so, do we knoww of any bacteria that are beneficial to mushrooms? I know outdoor grows have natural bacterial contamination that appears to benefit the shrooms, and help them fight off trich and other nasties.
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Eywa_devotee
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In the open like that it is unlikely to work for actual mushroom production. You would need to have very active micro-aeration to get a mushroom culture to grow in truly wet conditions. Also, mushrooms will want a very nutritious substrate to grow on which all sorts of things will want to compete with in eating. If your intent is to use it as part of a biological filter, then some robust mushroom species (oyster etc.) may work if you have a large setup. It would remove a lot of toxic crap like certain algae if installed correctly. Look up mycoremediation.
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MMG
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Having a mushroom farm coupled with an aquaponics system can defenintely co-exist together quite well. Mushrooms exude C02 while plants breath out oxygen, having the two togeter can turn their outputs into the other's inputs. Easier said than done Only some mushrooms work with an aquaponics system as far as I know. I've been wanting to develop these two systems for quite a while as well. I bought myself a large 330 gallon tote for setting up a basic CHOP type system a couple of weeks ago, we'll see how it goes. I recommend you visit this guy's blog, he seems to have it going on! http://madbioneer.blogspot.mx/ Cheers, hope we can both learn from this thread!
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InebriaveritSaepe
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: MMG]
#22879563 - 02/08/16 03:47 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the replies guys! Eywa, I think that answers my question(Unless anyone knows of an edible mushroom that'll fruit in standing water), I was hoping the moving water combined with the water cleaning of the plants and fish would keep the contaminants low enough that the mycelium could keep control of the substrate, but it sounds like I'm wrong :P I knew bateria would be there, but I hoped to simulate outdoor fruiting(multiple competitors, kills/keeps away other nasties) plus constant access to as much water as was possibly needed. How about building a "Fruiting area" on some mesh suspended above the tanks, to take advantage of the high humidity above the open bodies of water? Does this sound feasible or beneficial for any reason"? How about using a tank of water between the fish and the plants for dunking subs? I could see the little bits of mycelium and gunk that fall off being good for the fish to eat.
MMG, I hope so as well! I'll check out the blog here in a few. I really like the idea behind aquaponics, benefiting two systems by combining them, and wanted to expand this idea slightly. I wanted Mycoponics! Mushrooms, fish, and plants in an enclosed system to the benefit of all three. I think the next best thing is to use the products from mycology or aquaponics as additives instead. Examples: feed the tilapia the spent mycelium, as a protein source; use fish shit as a substrate additive. which I guess basically would equate to feeding the fish their own shit.(Is fish waste beneficial in mycology?)
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MMG
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I'm sure you ca use fish emulsion water for soaking grains, making agar and supplementing any type of grow. It's highly nutritious and packed with good stuff, much like any other manure be it chicken, cow or horse. It's much less solid than those though so you'll have to tweak it a bit and use it sparingly. I urge you to check out the blog I linked you to, the guy writing it has experimented a lot and I think he's on to something with his aquaponics system with mushrooms living in it. What's left is for people to start experimenting, I'll be more than willing to once I get my aquaponics system established. What did you have in mind for yours, what type of system do you have/want (as far as number of beds/sumps/pumps)? What's left for me to do is find a good source of baby fish I can buy here in MX, I'll be looking around...
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InebriaveritSaepe
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: MMG]
#22889543 - 02/10/16 08:14 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I did read that blog, and am interested in experimenting with the concept. Would it be OK forum etiquette-wise to post back here in a few months? or should I start a new thread?
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MMG
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Yeah I don't think there would be a problem at all, if it's regarding the thread topic and as an update it's more than ok - it's welcomed.
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crazybean
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I am growing tomatoes using drain and flood system. Preventing mold and algae is main issue. I figured out that clay balls shall be covered with aluminium foil. Still, having both, aquaponics and fungi is not advisable. Perhaps coco substrate may work.Coco still counts as aquaponics.
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MMG
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: crazybean]
#22891781 - 02/11/16 01:12 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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crazybean is your reservoir tank white or transperent in color? I would recommend you paint it a black color and prevent sun from hitting the inside - that's the main factor in algae production. Covering clay balls in aluminum sounds like a big hazzle I would advice you use rock pebbles, the ideal size is around 3/4".
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worowa
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: MMG]
#22891907 - 02/11/16 01:45 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Switch to logs! I leave an end of my inoculated logs sitting in my ponds, they fruit year round. There are fish in there, and plants. Not so much a mycofilter, but there's no misting, fogging, FAE etc. There's a photo of one of my ponds here https://www.facebook.com/Forest.Fungi/
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MMG
Artesano
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: worowa]
#22892482 - 02/11/16 05:14 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the tip worowa, apparently that's the best way to do it. The guy from the blog has also used logs 'dipped' in the water with great success. I was looking at your fb site, real cool man, I'd buy some of your edible strains but the price tag scares me a way haha :s If your ever down for trade hit me up, also - thanks for posting, I've learned from your contributions here.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: MMG] 2
#22897527 - 02/12/16 09:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Plants and mushrooms don't go together nearly as well as I'd hoped they would. I'd keep the two separate. Use the AP water for plants. The problem I found with mushrooms and plants together is the roots don't appreciate the high CO2. Plants naturally outgas CO2 at night as well, so with mushrooms nearby the concentration will get high enough to screw up the rootzone. Humidity is the other problem. Mushrooms need lots of it and plants mold when humidity is high.
At one time I was pumping CO2 from the mushroom farm into my cannabis production facility. However, through testing I found it lowered the THC content of the weed with a direct inverse correlation between CO2 concentration and THC level. Similar studies found less nicotine produced when CO2 is elevated, and grains grown in high CO2 environments are less nutritious.
Hopefully the OP isn't raising talapia. I love fish and seafood, but that one is dirt nasty. I guess it depends on the ponds they're in, but they almost always taste like dirt when I get it at the grocery store. RR
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MMG
Artesano
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#22897751 - 02/12/16 10:29 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Can't argue with the facts, I made a short google search and it seems RR is right. Increased C02 in the atmosphere = stunted or retarded plant growth. From what I read it's a pretty recent discovery and is an on-going research but there's evidence that has proven the statement true. Have you tried using inoculated logs in your system? From what I read if you dip em inside water they can soak up moisture and fruit rather well. I can also imagine you can make a small separate bed, that is still part of the water culture, but with soil as a medium and dedicated too mushroom growing/experimentation. Regarding the fish, I was thinking of breeding tilapia at first but changed my mind considering most of it isn't good and probably radiated with toxic Fukushima waste What sort of fish are you growing in your system and if it's not too much to ask, how do you have it set up in rough terms? Nice to see you around
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forrest
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: MMG]
#22898681 - 02/13/16 03:54 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd imagine growing lemna in shallow water would go together allright with mushrooms above it.
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InebriaveritSaepe
Jack of all trades
Registered: 05/19/15
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: forrest]
#22908230 - 02/15/16 04:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, how about this: Dunkwater from mushrooms gets strained, and mycelium chunks are fed to fish? also, could I pull oxygen-rich air from the plant nursery and (after filtering) pump it into the fruiting room? Is it even worth doing?
FYI, I do not have an aquaponics system yet, I'm using my tax return to do so in a few weeks. Starting off, I just want indoor fresh veggies while it's cold, but eventually I'm thinking a store.
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Edited by InebriaveritSaepe (02/15/16 04:40 PM)
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camplo
Freedom!
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#22929205 - 02/21/16 08:59 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Plants and mushrooms don't go together nearly as well as I'd hoped they would. I'd keep the two separate. Use the AP water for plants. The problem I found with mushrooms and plants together is the roots don't appreciate the high CO2. Plants naturally outgas CO2 at night as well, so with mushrooms nearby the concentration will get high enough to screw up the rootzone. Humidity is the other problem. Mushrooms need lots of it and plants mold when humidity is high.
At one time I was pumping CO2 from the mushroom farm into my cannabis production facility. However, through testing I found it lowered the THC content of the weed with a direct inverse correlation between CO2 concentration and THC level. Similar studies found less nicotine produced when CO2 is elevated, and grains grown in high CO2 environments are less nutritious.
Hopefully the OP isn't raising talapia. I love fish and seafood, but that one is dirt nasty. I guess it depends on the ponds they're in, but they almost always taste like dirt when I get it at the grocery store. RR
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crazybean
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: MMG]
#22954336 - 02/28/16 07:01 AM (8 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
MMG said: crazybean is your reservoir tank white or transperent in color? I would recommend you paint it a black color and prevent sun from hitting the inside - that's the main factor in algae production. Covering clay balls in aluminum sounds like a big hazzle I would advice you use rock pebbles, the ideal size is around 3/4".
My reservoire is black. But clay balls do get wet and after 3,4 month get green. Aluminium foil helps a lot. But bottom line is, that hydroponics really rocks with the plant propagation. Maintaining hydroponics for entire growing season is another thing. For example manipulation ferts to switch plant from vegetative growth to start fruiting.
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MMG
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Re: Hydroponics plus mycology? [Re: crazybean]
#22954859 - 02/28/16 11:22 AM (8 years, 30 days ago) |
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hydroponics is water culture all by itself, aquaponics which is what the op is referencing involves fish. One you get the system setup and it begins to mature I hear it's not hard to maintain thereafter, given you have a proper filtration system for the fish residue and what not. The only thing to monitor is that and the the water ph. Another thing that might need monitoring are KPS levels in your system, minuto ring that your plants are not lacking the essential minerals. No need for added ferts since the fish take care of it and you can add worms to further help with the decomposition process.
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sampioen
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Re: Germinating spores and multiplying a spore slurry for outdoor gardens [Re: InebriaveritSaepe]
#22996793 - 03/11/16 05:13 PM (8 years, 18 days ago) |
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I have seen a TV-program where mycorrhizal fungi(bought from a supplier) was used to enhance the growth of potatoes. After harvesting, the potatoes were washed in a bucket containing rainwater(boiled for 10 minutes and cooled to room temperature). Nutrients(honey or molasses) was added, and a pinch of salt(non-iodized), and afterwards the bucket was aerated using a aquarium air pump. This is a way to propagate the mycorrhizal fungi.
The same could be done to germinate spores(spore slurry - P. Stamets) or to multiply an existing liquid culture or spore slurry. Problem is I don't have spores, and the season has already started. Hopefully I'll find some soon.
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velacreations
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Re: Germinating spores and multiplying a spore slurry for outdoor gardens [Re: sampioen]
#23018203 - 03/17/16 09:00 PM (8 years, 12 days ago) |
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Stamets uses floating straw logs colonized with oyster species as biofilters.
You can do it a lot of different ways.
Here's a discussion about several examples: http://aquaponicsnation.com/forums/topic/8204-mushroom-biofilter/
A few people have experimented with it as a biofilter in an AP system.
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