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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22961640 - 03/01/16 01:13 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Do you know any Christians? 

I'll try to elaborate on the answering to a higher power.  It seems that there is a hierarchy to leadership because there is a belief in higher power having hierarchy.  Truth is leaders answer to those below them and at their 'level'.  Even dictators have to answer sooner or later to others.

I'm not sure what political or religious dogma I'd prefer.  I'd rather there be the freedom to be flexible.  Maybe over time if things really are democratic there will be that adjustment.

I don't have to answer to a higher spiritual power.  I have to avoid answering to others as much as possible.  I have to answer to the consequences of reality in all aspects.

It's that people have this very old age morality and they legislate for all others to live by such ways.  It's horrible when Muslims do this and it's no less when Christians or Jews do this.  Even communism legislates it's own survival insurance plan.  For new beginnings old things must die.

Perhaps there is more hope with the newer generations.  It seems every new generation has a lot of their parents ideas and yet they want more freedom built on that.

Oddly enough I was a Catholic student up to 5th grade.  I've seen a lot of bullshit.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: Morel Guy]
    #22961693 - 03/01/16 01:26 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I'll admit I get a little butt-hurt about people's beliefs and how it organizes our state of existence.  Nothing I can really do about that except share my voice.

I have deeply Christian grandparents that are still living.  I get a little annoyed about how they think.  I don't think God will provide.  I believe in existences after death and I have no idea how those work to let parts of us survive mentally/spiritually.  I just know that sometimes shit happens and faith can fail.

I know there are people that make money off of people's simple back woods religious ideology.  There are people in power that do shitty things to people like us.  There in power because of people's back woods backward thinking.

I've had spiritual quests before.  I tried fasting, never could go a day without food (24 - 30 hours).  Although there was a time I went five days without food or sleep (separate occasion).  I just didn't find anything that great about it.  I've learned drugs do a lot more for real spiritual thinking and experience.  I never have seen other realms, real or hallucinated, whichever they may be from sober searching.  It's always taken a drug experience.  I don't think all drugs are equal like your average Sunday morning Christian.

My Grandpa said doing drugs is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer because it feels good.  That's pretty stupid to think that from my experiences.  But they were born in the 1930's and people are generally uneducated at that time and not interested on educating themselves.

That's all I have to say about that.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: Morel Guy]
    #22961821 - 03/01/16 02:02 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

"Do you know any Christians? "

I was raised Reformed Jewish. I was baptized in a Roman Catholic church, and I earned a Masters of Theological Studies degree in Drew University's United Methodist seminary. I do not refer to myself as a Christian, Jewish Christian, or Messianic Jew because I do not want to be associated with mainstream Christians who confuse mythology for history, and I do not want to be regarded as one of the 'Jews for Jesus.' Christian means aspiring to "the mind of Christ," not being a member of the cult of personality ('Jesus freaks'). I also have no interest in Christian community such as it is. While I have some Jewish identity that I maintain (like lighting Shabbos candles at sundown Friday night), I remain Master of the Sabbath, not mastered BY the Sabbath. I endeavor to be Jew after the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth whether he's completely mythic or historical, or a mythically-enhanced historical figure is immaterial to me. The teachings stand.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22961961 - 03/01/16 02:47 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: Morel Guy]
    #22961968 - 03/01/16 02:48 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

It is what it is.


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: CherryBom]
    #22962105 - 03/01/16 03:35 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I'm trying to plan a get-away later this month.  But it turns out that Easter is on the day I want to travel.  So I'm expected to be in town so my wife and I can hang out with her family at church and after. 

They aren't even really religious.  It's just about family together time, and tradition, and memories. 

I'm just saying, if I had a dollar for every Sunday Christianity has ruined. 

And you never hear about Jewish holidays.  They aren't inventing santa and bunnies and turning all their holy days into national events.  And muslims won't even mention it when they are observing ramadan, unless it comes up.  Could you imagine if there was a ritual in christianity where they didn't eat during the day for a whole month!?  The facebook posts would be endless.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: Hippocampus]
    #22962150 - 03/01/16 03:51 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Hippocampus said:
I'm trying to plan a get-away later this month.  But it turns out that Easter is on the day I want to travel.  So I'm expected to be in town so my wife and I can hang out with her family at church and after. 

They aren't even really religious.  It's just about family together time, and tradition, and memories. 

I'm just saying, if I had a dollar for every Sunday Christianity has ruined. 

And you never hear about Jewish holidays.  They aren't inventing santa and bunnies and turning all their holy days into national events.  And muslims won't even mention it when they are observing ramadan, unless it comes up.  Could you imagine if there was a ritual in christianity where they didn't eat during the day for a whole month!?  The facebook posts would be endless.





Catholics don't eat meat other than fish for a little bit.  I think it's only Friday's during lent.  The bible talks about fasting as being the only way to be reborn.  I am not going 40 days without food!


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: Morel Guy]
    #22962532 - 03/01/16 06:08 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

most likely because fasting is a way to induce visionary experiences


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: zzripz]
    #22962721 - 03/01/16 07:09 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Yes it does that, especially when the fast is broken with an entheogen.  Fasting can be dark, physically and emotionally painful and cold.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: Ravendance] * 1
    #22964268 - 03/02/16 03:39 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ravendance said:
The most wise people I have ever known are usually some of the most silent people I have ever known.




A paradoxical shame, too. A wise man also probably once said keeping wisdom to one's self defeats its purpose.

Late to the convo, but I feel that more than *Christianity* itself, the OP (and people like me) are more frustrated with the political, cultural and social consequence of sharing a society *with* Christians.

But really, stop and take a look around and realize our ancestors have come a *long* way compared to where we used to be on the issues of racism, sexism, etc...

Case and point: Thousands of years ago, Christians/Israelites would *stone* gay people to death. Now most Christians just go, "ew"

I say that's progress. Give the human race the space and faith to head even further in a positive direction. (And hop on that wave and choose to make an impact in that direction if that's what you want.)

ETA: Wanna *really* see Fundamentalist Religion at work? Go live in the middle east. We've got it *good* here with our paranoid Christian neighbors in comparison.


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (03/02/16 03:42 AM)


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OfflineDivineSight1111
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: Vahn421]
    #22967479 - 03/02/16 11:42 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Just watch zeitgeist about Christianity and all will be cleared.



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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: DivineSight1111]
    #22967510 - 03/02/16 11:51 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Christianity is literally not what it used to be.

before it was people from the Hebrews (ie Jesus) whom spread the word of God to the west and eventually the Christians were persecuted (along with Jesus), like the Gnostics too, and basically Rome went Christian officially at some point and some old kings codified the Bible from a SLEW of old literature from anonymous writers of their personal revelations and stories of "The LORD our God" -- most of which are not even truly written by the hand of a disciple, though a few are...point is though that of all these writings that were selected to go in (and those that were considered but didn't get in, to those that were outright banned, because they sent conflicted messages to what the church wanted so...) are sourced from many sources and are not reflective of any "word of God". it's all just peoples human understanding of, as far as they could ever prove beyond a reasonable modern-day-doubt, "God Almighty", the Alpha and Omega....yet it's all believed to be "the word of God" by Christians the world over? :confused:

oh well. i like the Christianity that was like "what's God? well, man, it's like this crazy BBBSHHHH!!!!! and KAPOW!!! and he blinks he his giant eye the sleep crust from his lashes created the moon".


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: Hippocampus] * 1
    #22967637 - 03/03/16 12:33 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I'm just saying, if I had a dollar for every Sunday Christianity has ruined.

Really? So how old are you? You probably enjoyed those marshmallow Peeps® and chocolate Easter bunnies for at least 7 out of your first 10 years of life. So how much would you have for every Easter "ruined?" $20? $25? $30?  Who cares about your wife and her family right? :lol: 

Jews are a small percentage of the world's population - particularly since their originally small numbers were decimated by the Nazi Holocaust. Jews take their cultural-relgious existence a bit more seriously than the multitudes of mindless morons who haven't yet even asked what the Pagan fertility symbols of eggs and rabbits have to do with the Christian mythos of Eternal Life and Resurrection in God. And Muslims - in the USA at any rate - are more-or-less forced into keeping a low profile at this juncture of history, especially in the USA with the foul-mouthed bigoted demagogue Drumpf (Trump's original name) spewing hatred.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22967701 - 03/03/16 12:48 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

many people forget Christianities' Pagan roots.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22967821 - 03/03/16 01:30 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
many people forget Christianities' Pagan roots.




I haven't forgotten the influence of Paganism on Christianity, but I'm not referring to popular Paganism, I'm referring to high Pagan philosophy, like the Plotinian Neoplatonism that profoundly influenced [St.] Augustine of Hippo, and through him Catholic theology, and thence to Eastern Orthodox tradition. Most Christians whom I've met know little more than was taught to them as children, so it's no wonder they throw the baby [Jesus] out with the bath water. It doesn't make sense to go about with a 7 year old's Sunday school notions or catechism when you're an adult. Few people remove and discard childhood ideas for grown up ideas, or even realize that one has to grow intellectually and spiritually. They simply reject the old and fail to learn anything new. :shrug:


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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22967892 - 03/03/16 01:51 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I'm just saying, if I had a dollar for every Sunday Christianity has ruined.

Really? So how old are you? You probably enjoyed those marshmallow Peeps® and chocolate Easter bunnies for at least 7 out of your first 10 years of life. So how much would you have for every Easter "ruined?" $20? $25? $30?  Who cares about your wife and her family right? :lol: 





I never knew Easter was such a big deal to you. 

Well if we can separate easter from every other sunday, as most "christians" do when they only show up to church that day, then I'd say easter bunnies do make up for all the lame times at least a little bit. 

But we'd have peeps without christianity.  As you've pointed out, it was a pagan thing before the "one god" nazis took over and converted the "pagans", subverted their days, and perverted their celebrations.
:feelsgodman: 

Did someone say perverted?  Quick!  put that priest on sick leave, and shuffle him to another church!!  Batman is onto us!  :batman:
:I'mbatman:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22967943 - 03/03/16 02:08 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
many people forget Christianities' Pagan roots.




I haven't forgotten the influence of Paganism on Christianity, but I'm not referring to popular Paganism, I'm referring to high Pagan philosophy, like the Plotinian Neoplatonism that profoundly influenced [St.] Augustine of Hippo, and through him Catholic theology, and thence to Eastern Orthodox tradition. Most Christians whom I've met know little more than was taught to them as children, so it's no wonder they throw the baby [Jesus] out with the bath water. It doesn't make sense to go about with a 7 year old's Sunday school notions or catechism when you're an adult. Few people remove and discard childhood ideas for grown up ideas, or even realize that one has to grow intellectually and spiritually. They simply reject the old and fail to learn anything new. :shrug:



oh yes, excellent point. my point was similar: that old school Christian values were determined more by a personal relationship with God, than by a catechism -like  interpretation and indoctrination, (essentially).

and that's still super interesting, and some nice connections to research, consider that opens up some real doors in understanding for me. i knew the neoplatonists had some connection to the Christian tradition but i actually didn't know until know what they meant! :smile: so thanks.


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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: DivineSight1111]
    #22968378 - 03/03/16 07:45 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DivineSight1111 said:
Just watch zeitgeist about Christianity and all will be cleared.






Zeitgeist is an absolute joke. It is meme-tier conspiracy bullshit. It's not completely wrong, but a lot of the information in there is not correct. It's not all Mithra and Horus, there's a lot more to it than that, and they're presenting an extremely simplified and falsified version of things. Even a lot of dates they use are completely wrong.

By all means, look into the founding and the history of Christianity, but please do not take Zeitgeist to be an authoritative movie.

It it was truly revolutionary it wouldn't be on Netflix and wouldn't be as popular and sanctioned by the establishment as it is.


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Offlinehalo
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22968381 - 03/03/16 07:47 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
many people forget Christianities' Pagan roots.




I haven't forgotten the influence of Paganism on Christianity, but I'm not referring to popular Paganism, I'm referring to high Pagan philosophy, like the Plotinian Neoplatonism that profoundly influenced [St.] Augustine of Hippo, and through him Catholic theology, and thence to Eastern Orthodox tradition. Most Christians whom I've met know little more than was taught to them as children, so it's no wonder they throw the baby [Jesus] out with the bath water. It doesn't make sense to go about with a 7 year old's Sunday school notions or catechism when you're an adult. Few people remove and discard childhood ideas for grown up ideas, or even realize that one has to grow intellectually and spiritually. They simply reject the old and fail to learn anything new. :shrug:




Good point. Also perhaps off topic, but as a Jew who converted to Eastern Orthodox, what is your opinion on "Brother Nathaniel" ?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am so sick and tired of Christianity [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22970245 - 03/03/16 07:16 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Personally, I think that the Eastern Orthodox version of the Holy Trinity (the thing called the Filioque that created the schism between Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches) pretty much changed the names of:
The One -> Nous -> World-Soul  of Plotinian Neoplatonism into Father -> Son/Logos -> Holy Spirit.  (In Orthodoxy the 3 persons 'prolate' in a linear extension rather than as a triangulation in Catholicism). It was Augustine's writings on The Trinity that became doctrine, and he was a Neoplatonist and a Manichean before his mother convinced him to go Catholic.


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