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InvisibleEdame
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Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Whitewash?
    #2283733 - 01/29/04 01:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I know there's not much interest in British politics, so this is primarily for the UK posters to weigh in on (but feel free to comment if you want to).

How do you feel about the Hutton Report? I have to say that I was gutted, with the tuition fees vote and then this, it was 'Teflon Tony' all over again. I was listening to radio 4 while I was stuck in the snow, and it was all pretty sickening for me. Having to listen to people like Campbell talk as if this report had been handed down by Moses himself, absolving the Government of any wrongdoing in the entire Iraq affair (not just David Kelly's death) while blaming the BBC just pissed me off no end.

At first I put it down to naivete on my part, in assuming that a Law Lord appointed by Blair himself would have anything critical to say about the Government. Having seen the response by a large and diverse selection of (both left and right-leaning) papers and polls, I'm comforted that I'm not the only one that's been genuinely knocked for six by what's happened.

The BBC is criticised from the ground up for breaking a story with genuine merit (misleading people about the war) that they base on a single source. The government takes the country into a war that costs thousands of lives, citing things like the '45 minutes' claim (also based on a single source, now evidently false) and they are found to have acted with nothing but honour and integrity. For once I find myself agreeing with a Tory, "...Blair, Hoon, Scarlett, the whole lot of them, have been sprayed with more whitewash than a Costa Brava timeshare."


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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
Re: Whitewash? [Re: Edame]
    #2284063 - 01/29/04 03:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What can you say? I cant believe the government have been completely cleared of any blame.Cant say its a big surprise though either.


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Whitewash? [Re: Edame]
    #2284480 - 01/29/04 05:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

NEXT!  :grin: j/k

I'll bet you two quid that Blair gets impeached soon though.




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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Whitewash? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2284492 - 01/29/04 05:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'll bet you a pony he doesnt! :grin:


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: Whitewash? [Re: Edame]
    #2284534 - 01/29/04 05:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What about that whole deal with Kelley and his "supposed suicide?" Is that getting much press over there?


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Whitewash? [Re: GazzBut]
    #2284598 - 01/29/04 06:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
I'll bet you a pony he doesnt! :grin:




I don't want to bet. I was just looking for an excuse to use the term "quid".  :grin:





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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Whitewash? [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2284644 - 01/29/04 06:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TrueBrode said:
What about that whole deal with Kelley and his "supposed suicide?" Is that getting much press over there?




As far as I can tell, pretty much everyone is agreed that he killed himself. Depending on the viewpoint, some think it was the shame of being found out as the leak for the Today report, some think it was the desperation of being hung out to dry by the government. I did read an article by an apparent friend who claimed that Kelly felt he was in danger, but to be honest, if he was 'bumped off' by someone, 'they' did a spotless job, there's no evidence to support it.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Posts: 4,733
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Re: Whitewash? [Re: Edame]
    #2284698 - 01/29/04 06:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I also saw a report on a colleague of Kelly's who stated that Kelly had said he would never kill himself but he wouldnt be surprised if he was found bumped off in the woods.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleEdame
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Posts: 1,270
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Re: Whitewash? [Re: GazzBut]
    #2284747 - 01/29/04 06:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That's the one, my memory was a bit fuzzy on the exact wording of the article.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
Re: Whitewash? [Re: Edame]
    #2286399 - 01/30/04 08:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The Hutton enquiry has been a great smokescreen. It has deflected blame from Blair and Co on the decision making process that lead to war and the dodgy intelligence that was used. This further hides the real truth behind why we went to war i.e Oil and middle east domination.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleTrueBrode
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: Whitewash? [Re: Edame]
    #2289486 - 01/31/04 01:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineSreba
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Registered: 01/27/04
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Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Whitewash? [Re: Edame]
    #2291464 - 02/01/04 12:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I totally expected the outcome of the Hutton report. What do you expect when on the board of people to pick Hutton was Blair and Lord Falcnor (sp?), who just happens to be Tony Blair's old flat mate and a very good friend of Hutton's? I do not see why they keep saying it was an independant report when it was more like a gentlemens' club meeting. They blamed the BBC for using one source to critise the 45 min claim that they got themselves from a single source. The governments source though wasn't in the Iraqi government like the BBC's, no their source was an Iraqi exile group who would probably have said anything to be able to get back into the country and have now admittted that it was a lie.

Here is a list of things that Hutton did not mention that should have been in the report,

11 August

"As probably the most senior intelligence community
official working on WMD, I was so concerned about the
manner in which intelligence assessments were being
presented in the dossier that I was moved to write ...
recording and explaining my reservations.

"The existing wording is not wrong but has lots of
spin on it." - Martin Howard, chief of Defence
Intelligence, on what a senior official had written.

14 August

The inquiry heard of Tony Blair’s request to bring
back David Kelly from a training day before a trip to
Iraq for a second interview. Geoff Hoon overruled Sir
Kevin Tebbit and ordered Dr Kelly should appear in
public before the Commons’ foreign affairs committee
because a private hearing would be "presentationally
difficult". Sir Kevin had said there should be "some
regard for the man himself" (Dr Kelly). "He is not on
trial."

John Scarlett, the chairman of the Joint Intelligence
Committee, said Dr Kelly should face a "security-style
interview", evidence which went against claims that
normal MoD disciplinary procedures were followed.

Memo from Sir David Omand, Cabinet Office intelligence
and security co-ordinator ... "recorded the Prime
Minister’s view that before we decided on the next
steps that should be taken, it would be sensible to go
into a bit more detail into the difference between
what Dr Kelly had said and what Andrew Gilligan had
claimed."

18 August

An e-mail of 5 September, 2002 showed Alastair
Campbell ordered a "substantial rewrite" of the WMD
dossier after a meeting with Mr Blair.

Jonathan Powell, Mr Blair’s chief of staff, later
wrote of the dossier: "The document does nothing to
demonstrate a threat, let alone an imminent threat,
from Saddam."

Tom Kelly, one of the Prime Minister’s spokesmen,
wrote in an e-mail: "This is now a game of chicken
with the Beeb - the only way they will shift is if
they see the screw tightening."

19 August

In a memo to Alastair Campbell, John Scarlett said
that changes had been made to the text (of the
dossier) "as you proposed": "We have strengthened the
language on current concerns and plans, including the
executive summary."

An e-mail from Philip Basset, one of Mr Campbell’s
advisers: "Very long way to go, I think. Think we’re
in a lot of trouble with this (the dossier) as it
stands now."

20 August

Alastair Campbell floated the idea to Geoff Hoon, the
Defence Secretary, that Dr Kelly’s name be leaked to a
friendly newspaper - he was later persuaded this was
not a good idea.

Sir Kevin Tebbit said: "I was told the Prime Minister
was following this very closely indeed ... the
intelligence was that he wanted something done about
the individual (Dr Kelly) coming forward."

26 August

An e-mail showed Downing Street made a desperate final
plea for stronger evidence for the dossier: "No 10
wants the document to be as strong as possible within
the boundaries of the available intelligence. this is
therefore a last (!) call for any items of
intelligence that the agencies think can and should be
used."

27 August

Geoff Hoon, having heard an official had admitted
talking to the BBC, said: "It did appear that this
perhaps was an opportunity to demonstrate that
unauthorised contacts with journalists would be looked
at seriously."

1 September

Janice Kelly, Dr Kelly’s widow, said the Ministry of
Defence told her husband he would not be named and he
felt betrayed when he was.

3 September

Dr Brian Jones, head of the Defence Intelligence Staff
analysing WMD, said the "shutters came down" before
the reservations about the dossier in the intelligence
community - especially the 45-minute claim - had been
discussed. "Our reservations about the dossier were
not reflected in the final version."

Dr Jones also said a chemical weapons expert said
there was a "tendency to over-egg certain
assessments".

4 September

Geoff Hoon’s special adviser, Richard Taylor, said Mr
Hoon was present at a meeting to discuss a "naming
strategy" for Dr Kelly. Mr Hoon had not mentioned this
in his evidence.


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"In addition to my other numerous acquaintances, I have one more intimate confidant.  My depression is the most faithful mistress I have known... no wonder, then, that I return the love."
- Søren Kierkegaard


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