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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: theonlysun81]
    #22838908 - 01/29/16 03:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Which hit ONE acre of Federal land, which they put out... which INCREASED the value of the land.
Which they served their time for. Which the Federal government came back 5+ years later refusing the judge's decision saying that's not good enough and charged them as terrorists.
Terrorists.. for starting a backfire to protect land from a ravaging wildfire.
Terrorists. :lol:




honestly, the legal system completely shafted them.

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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22838920 - 01/29/16 03:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Western cities like Phoenix, Las Vegas and La are ecologically unsustainable. I actually think population growth in Arizona and Nevada is immoral. Something will have to be done in the future and it won't be pretty.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinetheonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22838933 - 01/29/16 03:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Which hit ONE acre of Federal land, which they put out... which INCREASED the value of the land.
Which they served their time for. Which the Federal government came back 5+ years later refusing the judge's decision saying that's not good enough and charged them as terrorists.
Terrorists.. for starting a backfire to protect land from a ravaging wildfire.
Terrorists. :lol:




honestly, the legal system completely shafted them.





so that video doesn't go into how the Hammonds set that fire in the exit path of the firefighters who were in the area trying to maintain the controlled burn. They went back to prison because it was determined they were criminally negligent and put the lives of firefighters in danger.

I mean, I know the BLM isn't perfect and the Hammonds should have been set free on double jeopordy (technically not, they weren't tried again, the feds just brought it to an appeals court. Something defense attorneys do as well), but these Sagebrush Rebellion folks just want to play cowboy. If they cared about the land than the indigenous people would be involved in this. They are not. If they cared about the people than they would understand the majority of people in the American West, as well as as the rest of america, understand the complex issues with the environment and are trying to put those issues first rather than profits. Did you know most of these ranchers make an excess of $1 million dollars a year in revenue? Less than 1% goes to grazing fees.


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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22838937 - 01/29/16 03:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Which hit ONE acre of Federal land, which they put out... which INCREASED the value of the land.
Which they served their time for. Which the Federal government came back 5+ years later refusing the judge's decision saying that's not good enough and charged them as terrorists.
Terrorists.. for starting a backfire to protect land from a ravaging wildfire.
Terrorists. :lol:




honestly, the legal system completely shafted them.




Wild fires are a natural process. The only reason we don't like them is because it interferes with our ability to use the land for our selfish purposes.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinetheonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: koods]
    #22838938 - 01/29/16 03:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Western cities like Phoenix, Las Vegas and La are ecologically unsustainable. I actually think population growth in Arizona and Nevada is immoral. Something will have to be done in the future and it won't be pretty.




Well its not really population growth in Nevada. Its population growth in Vegas. The rest of Nevada's population cycles with the price of gold and silver. Now it might fluctuate with the price of solar energy too.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: theonlysun81]
    #22838945 - 01/29/16 03:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

so that video doesn't go into how the Hammonds set that fire in the exit path of the firefighters who were in the area trying to maintain the controlled burn. They went back to prison because it was determined they were criminally negligent and put the lives of firefighters in danger.




i'm aware.

i still think they got shafted. it was negligence but it was accidental, nevertheless. i agree with the rest of your post...they're playing cowboy.

Quote:

koods said:

Wild fires are a natural process. The only reason we don't like them is because it interferes with our ability to use the land for our selfish purposes.



oh sure. but i just saying their punishment was disproportionate in comparisons to their actions, in my opinion.

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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: theonlysun81] * 1
    #22838948 - 01/29/16 03:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Lake mead and other water sources are not sustainable with las vegas's population. Eventually the city will not have enough water for its population.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinetheonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22838963 - 01/29/16 03:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

so that video doesn't go into how the Hammonds set that fire in the exit path of the firefighters who were in the area trying to maintain the controlled burn. They went back to prison because it was determined they were criminally negligent and put the lives of firefighters in danger.




i'm aware.

i still think they got shafted. it was negligence but it was accidental, nevertheless.




idk if setting a fire where they were specifically told not to because of the danger to firefighters would be considered accidental. But I would agree, they got shafted. These ranchers don't exactly get the best lawyers to be honest. Buuutt they're seperate from the Bundys. The Bundys and they friends fired shots at some coworkers of mine (I dont work with them directly, but they work for the same organization I do. I do with with a fella who was at the original stand off in 2014 and had an assault rifle pointed at him. This fella is an ex Army Ranger Special Forces too. Brilliant guy.) in the Golden Crest (i think that the area) when they were out doing land health assessments on certain springs.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: California]
    #22838967 - 01/29/16 03:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

California said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The federal government needs to divest itself of those lands.  Sell them to private entities.  It is fucking ridiculous the amount of land it owns out there.  Like 80% of Nevada.  Why?



Why does the government need to sell the land to private entities?



To generate revenue that alleviates taxpayer costs and to stop subsidizing ranchers and make them pay market value.


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22838972 - 01/29/16 03:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

theonlysun81 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The federal government needs to divest itself of those lands.  Sell them to private entities.  It is fucking ridiculous the amount of land it owns out there.  Like 80% of Nevada.  Why?





but the original "why" does the government own all that land is cause it bought out all the railroads that went under. Nevada is like a travel through state.



Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Which hit ONE acre of Federal land, which they put out... which INCREASED the value of the land.
Which they served their time for. Which the Federal government came back 5+ years later refusing the judge's decision saying that's not good enough and charged them as terrorists.
Terrorists.. for starting a backfire to protect land from a ravaging wildfire.
Terrorists. :lol:




honestly, the legal system completely shafted them.



Starting a fire to protect land from a ravaging wildfire, or to cover up poaching because they are massive shitheads.

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22838973 - 01/29/16 03:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

if setting a fire where they were specifically told not to




that's pertinent info.

Quote:

Starting a fire to protect land from a ravaging wildfire, or to cover up poaching because they are massive shitheads.




whoa...mind blown.

explains their lack of following orders,...or at least, it would. they'd wanna head off the emergency services, before they get to their poached land, if this was the case.

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: theonlysun81]
    #22838978 - 01/29/16 03:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

theonlysun81 said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:

and so is freedom of speech, if they didn't have guns, they wouldn't be speaking right now. and if they didn't have guns u wouldn't care and neither would anyone else because its alot less likely to hit the news and the gov would have ran them over already




This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. This is a bunch of selfish people who don't like the laws that a constitutional government has passed. These people don't represent Liberty. They represent anarchy.




but BLM does?  They are practicing their right to protest, and their right to arms. explain how this group isn't doing these things, but BLM was???????

save for a few idiots running into the police to suicide, these guys are much less harmful that BLM has been.  BLM and followers(or pretend followers) destroyed lots of buisness's, looted lots of stores, got lots of people hurt or killed during riots.

you havn't countered these arguements once, u just keep saying their the rancher hillbillys are wrong and label them.  You can't define how they are worse than BLM, because they arn't.  Your labels mean nothing when i can use the same ones on BLM and they were far far worse.  You're afraid of guns, thats what this is about, your afraid of the 'potential' of what could happen.  BLM and company, actually did shit.

The only thing outragious might be their demands, but BLM has some outragious ones as well.  Stealing land is = to stealing oscars, stealing is stealing.  Thats just 1 example that is only a few weeks or a month old, plenty more of that out their.

Define your opinion, back up your labels, if u are going to say these people are so bad, then you are going to have to explain how they are worse than BLM.





they are worse than the BLM cause they follow shitty ranching practices and the land they put their cattle on barely provides any forage so they just trespass where other people are putting out their cattle (under the rules set out by the BLM). The forementioned cattle than get their diseased genetics into the aformentioned cattle and than the reproductive rate goes down fucking over other ranchers. These ranchers essentially just want to put cattle out, not do any work and get them when slaughter time is upon them




so i assume you have been a rancher before hearding cattle?  Im sure they are anything but lazy.  They are what puts food on YOUR table.  This is all a product of 'mass' production of food.  It might not matter how well they manage their own lands, its very possible that it requires vastly more land to feed their cattle.  Its an issue of do i kill cattle to reduce the amount of feed needed, or do i find graze elsewhere and keep the animals alive to increase the numbers and produce MORE food.  Thats the basic equation, but then u throw in the very odd weather and u have draughts or floods, ect affecting everyones land.

And the end of the day its about how many animals would u rather have alive out there, thats what it boils down to, and those animals are the backbone of all our resturants, at least one part of the backbone.  Farmers put in the real work, yet they get teh smallest piece of the pie in the food chain, and then left and right we try to take more and more of their profits. 

Those cattle should graze for free, their should be a network of places for them to graze setup by the gov, and all of it free.  without cattle, we have no beef, everyone loves beef, which should make it a protected resource.  I mean cattle were born to eat grass, and society setup land ownership, with vastly smaller plots of land than required to feed massive herds of them.  So there's a problem, how do u fix it.....well the gov decides lets buy up all the fucking land and auction off rights to use it?  and if someone lucks out their cattle all dies?  ok.....great plan


here's a better plan, find out how much land those herds need, find the land thats available, let them graze for free, take it out of our tax's like they do everything else.  You have to pay for sidewalks, why not pay for grass?

if farmers didn't have to guess about how many heads of beef they have to kill off each year to survive their bills, their herds would double and tripple, which would cut beef prices in half


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22838988 - 01/29/16 03:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

either we utilize property value or we don't.

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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22838998 - 01/29/16 03:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

California said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The federal government needs to divest itself of those lands.  Sell them to private entities.  It is fucking ridiculous the amount of land it owns out there.  Like 80% of Nevada.  Why?



Why does the government need to sell the land to private entities?



To generate revenue that alleviates taxpayer costs and to stop subsidizing ranchers and make them pay market value.



That makes too much sense though.  Wouldn't they have already done that if that were the thing to do?
There's not much that can be made in 80% of Nevada that couldn't be made somewhere else at a competitive rate and price.

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Offlinetheonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22839013 - 01/29/16 03:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So the majority of the beef you eat is generated in the Midwest and the East. Most of the beef, at least here in Nevada (Bundy) and I would put money on Arizona and New Mexico(where a lot of these ranchers are from) gets sold over seas because its not good quality meat. It's kind of shitty. There are some good herds, but it mostly gets shipped out of town. But, no most ranchers do a lot of work, just not the ones in Oregon. They're definitely just trying to chill on the range.

Honestly dude, you have no idea what is going on. You can't just graze cattle for free, or everyone would be throwing out cattle there. And these people want to graze the same numbers their families were in the early 1800s so they can have some type of glory, but that just isn't sustainable. In Monitor Valley (where the sagebrush rebbellion started) has little to no forage in it. And the little forage there isn't accessable to cattle do to the Wyoming Big Sage there.

You're living in the 18002 brother


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Offlinetheonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22839025 - 01/29/16 03:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
either we utilize property value or we don't.




well even if we don't "utilize" property, land still performs a function. The increase of pavement leads to an increase in flooding (aka hurricane sandy). It cleans the water. It fixes carbon. It gives a habitat to animals, which even if we don't hunt, have an inherent genetic value. AKA in the future with genetic modification we will be able to utilize genes of certain species to perform functions that we would need. Sometimes letting land sit is more profitable than fucking around with it

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: theonlysun81]
    #22839047 - 01/29/16 03:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

no, what i mean is...you don't utilize some land and then not others...go in either 100% or none at all, is what i am getting at.

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Offlinetheonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22839059 - 01/29/16 04:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well on what scale? Cause yes, in grazing allotments they nuke certain areas that have good waters cause you might as well have one really bad area and a lot of good areas than multiple shitty ones. But that's on the scale of 1 square mile.


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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: California] * 1
    #22839065 - 01/29/16 04:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

California said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

California said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The federal government needs to divest itself of those lands.  Sell them to private entities.  It is fucking ridiculous the amount of land it owns out there.  Like 80% of Nevada.  Why?



Why does the government need to sell the land to private entities?



To generate revenue that alleviates taxpayer costs and to stop subsidizing ranchers and make them pay market value.



That makes too much sense though.  Wouldn't they have already done that if that were the thing to do?
There's not much that can be made in 80% of Nevada that couldn't be made somewhere else at a competitive rate and price.




There would be revenue of these ranchers stopped freeloading and paid their fucking fees.

There are more important things than selling off a public resources for some short lived benefit of taxpayer relief. The west is on the verge of ecological disaster. Private land owners will be begging for federal assistance when their land becomes unusable soon enough. They always do. They fucking despise the federal government then turn around and are the first to beg for handouts. I really loathe these people. They have no principles except their selfish cult of individualism.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Onlinekoods
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22839070 - 01/29/16 04:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
no, what i mean is...you don't utilize some land and then not others...go in either 100% or none at all, is what i am getting at.



No. You use some land and preserve the rest. Why all or nothing? That makes no sense.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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