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theonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod]
#22839270 - 01/29/16 04:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: No it isn't. Drive through Idaho and you will see the devastation wrought by the federal government's management. And just exactly how are they managing the Nevada desert? And why don't they charge market value and then, whoa whoa whoa, collect even that meager sum from the people who use the land for grazing? Do you think a private owner would stand for that crap.
The federal government is inept in most ways. That's why they should take over health care.
and in nevada, we're trying. But you have the Bundy's, the Hages, all the mining that no one bats an eye too because its how we compete with china, etc. Like the BLM has lost most of it's power since people said fuck the BLM in the 80s and than Judge Jones doing his thing fucked the BLM over so they can't actually do anything.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: theonlysun81]
#22839281 - 01/29/16 04:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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They can't do anything? That's silly. Why shouldn't they mine in the Nevada desert?
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theonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod]
#22839282 - 01/29/16 04:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Nobody was regulating how they farmed in the dust bowl era. Here's how you manage it. Sell it to private people. They will lease it as they see fit to whoever will pay the most for grazing rights. People who don't pay can fuck off back to the Pub. Easy Peasy.
Well in the Dust Bowl era all the farmers learned how to farm via state sponsered ag extensions. No one forced them to do anything, but they did it cause they believed that the government knew what was best, which at the time was false.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
theonlysun81 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: No it isn't. Drive through Idaho and you will see the devastation wrought by the federal government's management. And just exactly how are they managing the Nevada desert? And why don't they charge market value and then, whoa whoa whoa, collect even that meager sum from the people who use the land for grazing? Do you think a private owner would stand for that crap.
The federal government is inept in most ways. That's why they should take over health care.
Well, if you look at anectdotal evidence from explorers who came to the west, they said it was mostly grass. the sage didn't come in until the cattle did. Than sometime in the 40s the ranchers were like shit this isn't good, so the Taylor grazing act was made. than somewhere in the 60s and 70s the ranchers forgot about the Taylor grazing act, remembered how they used to masterbate to the founding fathers and decided that anyone who would trade freedom for forage deserve neither freedom nor forage
Well that's a little kooky. Are you saying it is useless for grazing now? If so then why are they sending cattle to graze there?
and yes, Nevada, arizona and new mexico are essentially useless for grazing. they continue to graze cause its their legacy. Their ranches are kinda bad ass.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: theonlysun81]
#22839287 - 01/29/16 04:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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If they are useless for grazing then there would be no grazing. Because they would be useless. You make no sense.
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theonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod]
#22839296 - 01/29/16 04:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do you understand the concept of point of vanishing returns? Or how you can gain more profit from one thing than another but have them both profitable?
They don't. They understand that their daddy and his daddy and his daddy before that was on this land putting cattle out and by god I won't let anyone take that from me.
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theonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: theonlysun81]
#22839300 - 01/29/16 05:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Like the only thing worse than losing money and the BLM to these ranchers is change. They just want to maintain this forgotten lifestyle of the cowboy cause they think its romantic as shit
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koods
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod] 3
#22839301 - 01/29/16 05:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Nobody was regulating how they farmed in the dust bowl era. Here's how you manage it. Sell it to private people. They will lease it as they see fit to whoever will pay the most for grazing rights. People who don't pay can fuck off back to the Pub. Easy Peasy.
The free market is not the answer to everything. Thw free market fishes out the oceans. It's pollutes our rivers. It lets people build wherever they want. Then the federal government has to bail them out when everything goes to shit.
The free market allows gas companies to cause thousands of earthquakes a year and then take no responsibility for the damage that is done to private property
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (01/29/16 05:04 PM)
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theonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: koods]
#22839310 - 01/29/16 05:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yea like the free market is the answer at a certain scale. zappaisgod read a book called complexity. it describes the Santa Fe Institute and how scientific concepts like emergence were developed. Or just read about emergence. At different scales different behaviours are exhibited which require different rules to describe the system.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: theonlysun81]
#22839318 - 01/29/16 05:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
theonlysun81 said: Do you understand the concept of point of vanishing returns? Or how you can gain more profit from one thing than another but have them both profitable?
They don't. They understand that their daddy and his daddy and his daddy before that was on this land putting cattle out and by god I won't let anyone take that from me.
So what does what their daddy did have to do with anything? It isn't their fucking land and it still wouldn't be if the feds sold it and went away.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod]
#22839321 - 01/29/16 05:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: If they are useless for grazing then there would be no grazing. Because they would be useless. You make no sense.
you can graze on land without grazing on food.
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koods
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod] 2
#22839325 - 01/29/16 05:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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We shouldn't be selling off our natural resources. That is so short sighted.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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theonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod]
#22839328 - 01/29/16 05:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
theonlysun81 said: Do you understand the concept of point of vanishing returns? Or how you can gain more profit from one thing than another but have them both profitable?
They don't. They understand that their daddy and his daddy and his daddy before that was on this land putting cattle out and by god I won't let anyone take that from me.
So what does what their daddy did have to do with anything? It isn't their fucking land and it still wouldn't be if the feds sold it and went away.
well if you ask the ranchers, they say the federal land is theirs. I love hearing aboutt these 600,000 acre farms these ranchers have, when in actuality the private is only a couple hundred and they have permits for 600,000. If your family has been in a place for almost 200 hundred years doing the same thing, thats a point of pride. Regardless of whether or not they're bad at it.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: koods]
#22839330 - 01/29/16 05:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Nobody was regulating how they farmed in the dust bowl era. Here's how you manage it. Sell it to private people. They will lease it as they see fit to whoever will pay the most for grazing rights. People who don't pay can fuck off back to the Pub. Easy Peasy.
The free market is not the answer to everything. Thw free market fishes out the oceans. It's pollutes our rivers. It lets people build wherever they want. Then the federal government has to bail them out when everything goes to shit.
The free market allows gas companies to cause thousands of earthquakes a year and then take no responsibility for the damage that is done to private property
Earthquakes, LOL. If the free market fishes out the ocean then what happens? They stop fishing. Do you have any idea at all what the land we are talking about is? And why do you persist in ignoring what the federal management has caused in Idaho. They are not competent.
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Ran-D



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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: akira_akuma]
#22839332 - 01/29/16 05:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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If we all ate less cheeseburgers maybe we wouldn't have to deal with these fucking cattle ranchers thinking they own the planet.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: Ran-D]
#22839337 - 01/29/16 05:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The cattle they raise is shit. Americans don't eat it.
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theonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#22839339 - 01/29/16 05:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Nobody was regulating how they farmed in the dust bowl era. Here's how you manage it. Sell it to private people. They will lease it as they see fit to whoever will pay the most for grazing rights. People who don't pay can fuck off back to the Pub. Easy Peasy.
The free market is not the answer to everything. Thw free market fishes out the oceans. It's pollutes our rivers. It lets people build wherever they want. Then the federal government has to bail them out when everything goes to shit.
The free market allows gas companies to cause thousands of earthquakes a year and then take no responsibility for the damage that is done to private property
Earthquakes, LOL. If the free market fishes out the ocean then what happens? They stop fishing. Do you have any idea at all what the land we are talking about is? And why do you persist in ignoring what the federal management has caused in Idaho. They are not competent.
well if we did that to all our natural systems we would be pawing at the soil and praying to zappa for rain and food, like the ancients who danced for rain. But, idaho is beautiful man, despite what the ranchers have done, and inspite of what the BLM and USFS is trying to do. But I will give you, we permit waaayy too many mines. I couldn't say anything about timber sales. The timber value of sage is 0
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theonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod]
#22839345 - 01/29/16 05:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The cattle they raise is shit. Americans don't eat it.
exactly, i brought that up. and that isn't the BLMs fault. the BLM honestly isn't that powerful the ranchers definitely are more powerful cause they know they can run to the hills and the feds would never risk another Waco. and if its shit cattle why the fuck would we raise shit cattle when shit cattle mean we should switch to another meat source and let the land heal.
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koods
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: zappaisgod] 3
#22839349 - 01/29/16 05:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Nobody was regulating how they farmed in the dust bowl era. Here's how you manage it. Sell it to private people. They will lease it as they see fit to whoever will pay the most for grazing rights. People who don't pay can fuck off back to the Pub. Easy Peasy.
The free market is not the answer to everything. Thw free market fishes out the oceans. It's pollutes our rivers. It lets people build wherever they want. Then the federal government has to bail them out when everything goes to shit.
The free market allows gas companies to cause thousands of earthquakes a year and then take no responsibility for the damage that is done to private property
Earthquakes, LOL. If the free market fishes out the ocean then what happens? They stop fishing. Do you have any idea at all what the land we are talking about is? And why do you persist in ignoring what the federal management has caused in Idaho. They are not competent.
This is exactly the problem. You think it acceptable to completely destroy the environment, because that is some kind of form of self regulation except now you have a destroyed environment.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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theonlysun81
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: koods] 1
#22839354 - 01/29/16 05:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Nobody was regulating how they farmed in the dust bowl era. Here's how you manage it. Sell it to private people. They will lease it as they see fit to whoever will pay the most for grazing rights. People who don't pay can fuck off back to the Pub. Easy Peasy.
The free market is not the answer to everything. Thw free market fishes out the oceans. It's pollutes our rivers. It lets people build wherever they want. Then the federal government has to bail them out when everything goes to shit.
The free market allows gas companies to cause thousands of earthquakes a year and then take no responsibility for the damage that is done to private property
Earthquakes, LOL. If the free market fishes out the ocean then what happens? They stop fishing. Do you have any idea at all what the land we are talking about is? And why do you persist in ignoring what the federal management has caused in Idaho. They are not competent.
This is exactly the problem. You think it acceptable to completely destroy the environment, because that is some kind of form of self regulation except now you have a destroyed environment.
exactly and it takes the market place like 5 years to recover, but the environment takes like 100-10000 years to recover to its full potential. You know how long it takes to break down organic matter. Fucking long, and that's one of the faster natural processes. Nature is slow and steady.
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koods
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Re: Let the blood and arrests start to flow in Oregon [Re: theonlysun81]
#22839356 - 01/29/16 05:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
theonlysun81 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The cattle they raise is shit. Americans don't eat it.
exactly, i brought that up. and that isn't the BLMs fault. the BLM honestly isn't that powerful the ranchers definitely are more powerful cause they know they can run to the hills and the feds would never risk another Waco. and if its shit cattle why the fuck would we raise shit cattle when shit cattle mean we should switch to another meat source and let the land heal.
Waco. Lol. These guys are mad at the federal government because a pedophile cult leader murdered his victims. They are completely fucked in the head.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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