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OfflineTipote
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: clam_dude]
    #22853952 - 02/02/16 08:18 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

relevant to this discussion


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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: Tipote]
    #22854277 - 02/02/16 09:15 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/entertainment/the-oscars-racism-charlotte-rampling/

"Maybe this time, no black actor or actress deserved to make it to the final selection"

From a voting member of the academy- "There is no racism except for those who create an issue. That is the worst kind."

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OfflineTipote
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman]
    #22854326 - 02/02/16 09:32 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/entertainment/the-oscars-racism-charlotte-rampling/

"Maybe this time, no black actor or actress deserved to make it to the final selection"

From a voting member of the academy- "There is no racism except for those who create an issue. That is the worst kind."




Dude, this lady is an idiot.

Why is it always you, qman, who is so against believing in the concept of entrenched racism.

The oscars aren't always about merit. But even if there were, there are tons of black actors who deserve recognition. Not just this year but every year.

Quote:

despite the phenomenal performances by Michael B. Jordan and Tessa Thompson, the only person that got nominated for an Academy Award from the movie is Sylvester Stallone – the only white actor in "Creed". The duo then pointed out that the only way for a Black-centric movie to get nominated is for the movie to be about slavery and oppression.

2015 had actually been a great year for Black cinema, with movies like "Straight Outta Compton" and "Beasts of No Nation". The fact that the actors of these movies, especially Idris Elba, who portrayed an African warlord in the "Beasts of No Nation", were snubbed speaks volumes about the Academy voters' judgement.





http://www.ibtimes.co.in/oscarsowhite-black-movies-actors-that-deserved-nominations-2016-663803


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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: Tipote]
    #22854450 - 02/02/16 10:19 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Is Gerald Molen (who won a Best Picture Oscar) for Schinder's List, also an idiot?

"You can't vote for an actor because he's black...You've got to give a good performance"

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OfflineTipote
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman]
    #22854622 - 02/02/16 11:02 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

youre ignoring the point that there are plenty of great performances. there is still a consistent disparity year after year.

yes he is also an idiot imo


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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: Tipote]
    #22854746 - 02/02/16 11:44 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
youre ignoring the point that there are plenty of great performances. there is still a consistent disparity year after year.

yes he is also an idiot imo




"there is still consistent disparity"

There is disparity in everything in life, that doesn't mean there's bigotry behind it.

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OfflineTipote
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman]
    #22854773 - 02/02/16 11:57 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

what do you propose its coming down to?

it can't be for lack of merit, there are many choices yet they are consistently not recognised.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: Tipote]
    #22854985 - 02/02/16 12:54 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
what do you propose its coming down to?





I think most likely it comes down to economics, Hollywood creates movies for profit, that means you make movies for the people that purchase those movies. If your customer base is a majority based white audience, you make movies that appeal to them.

What appeals to them?  Most likely white actors and actresses that get the lead roles.

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OfflineTipote
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman]
    #22855135 - 02/02/16 01:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

hahaha qman, you seem to think that economics explains everything.

There are many movies with black actors that appeal to black audiences. You have no evidence that the films that win are only consumed by white audiences i guess?

The judges are all white i think. and only whites were nominated. despite huge numbers of deserving black actors.

first youre saying its about merit, then youre saying its about economics.. you will do what you can to pretend racism is nothing to do with it.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: Tipote]
    #22855180 - 02/02/16 01:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
hahaha qman, you seem to think that economics explains everything.

There are many movies with black actors that appeal to black audiences. You have no evidence that the films that win are only consumed by white audiences i guess?

The judges are all white i think. and only whites were nominated. despite huge numbers of deserving black actors.

first youre saying its about merit, then youre saying its about economics.. you will do what you can to pretend racism is nothing to do with it.




"think that economics explains everything"

It explains most things, money talks and bullshit walks. 

If there are less films with blacks having leading roles, there's less opportunity to prove merit.

Why would blacks/minorities have less leading roles?  Economics.

"The judge are all white"

I think that's correct and with that being said, I don't think anyone is consciously saying to themselves "I won't nominate a black", I think they genuinely are voting for the best people in their own opinion, in other words there's no conspiracy against minorities.

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman]
    #22859147 - 02/03/16 11:20 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

The answer is obvious, blacks make up 13.2% of the US population, therefore they deserve to win 13.2% of the awards, make up 13.2% of the prison population, get elected president 13.2% of the time and only get to have 13.2% of abortions. Anything else is obviously racist, bigoted, sexist, and homophobic...


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22860605 - 02/03/16 05:54 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

airclay said:
I'm sorry guy but I can't get with being accepting of systemic racism. This rant both acknowledges it and then excuses and doubts it.




I don't see how you can say I excuse or deny systemic racism.  What in particular did I say that would suggest this?




First off, I should apologize, I was laid up in bed injured and I dunno if it was cabin fever or painkillers but I jumped a lot of conclusions and was just generally overly aggro. My bad.

Quote:

clam_dude said:
It seems to me that hollywood is a reflection of society, of which racism is a part.  I don't know enough about hollywood to deny or confirm that racism exists.  But what I'm trying to say is this - since systemic racism is broad and not specific to an individual, it doesn't make sense to single out certain individuals who just happen to be part of the system, to place blame on. 
So we have a general racism that people feel the need to reduce down to a single event - which may or may not be an example of racism.  For example, if Will Smith had been nominated, none of this would be happening.  Perhaps if the movie was slightly better (I haven't seen it, but heard his performance wasn't his best), we wouldn't have this boycott.  I don't know that racism played a role in the specific event that Will Smith wasn't nominated.  And it seems to me like a stretch to suggest as much. 

My general criticism of blm for example, is that we have plenty of so called examples of racism that turn out not to be racism.  Simply because people made assumptions.  This is not to deny that there are real grievances that should be protested.  But take the incident in Ferguson.  I was called a racist by many who thought I was denying the existence of racism - because I said we don't have enough information to determine that the police officer is a racist murderer.  And guess what, it turned out that he wasn't a racist murderer.  Clearly the media has an agenda to push racism into any specific incident they can.  And because it's almost always based on speculation, they're often wrong.  We don't have to eat it up like sheep in order to understand that racism clearly exists.  I wish more liberals would understand this.  Anyway, sorry for the rant.




Your defense of Darren Wilson is unfounded here, as far as my knowledge yeah he was a racist murderer, that the media mostly protected, who was let off by a faulty grand jury. This whole above paragraph just assumes that you're indeed 100% correct and anyone that sees otherwise (or "liberals") are incorrect or are simply not smart enough to understand.

But let's talk about how the academy isn't one person and is a good representation of where this systemic racism is most generally seen in our culture.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-decides-oscar-winners-white-men-over-60/
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/oscars/la-et-unmasking-oscar-academy-project-20120219-story.html
Quote:

54 percent of the members of the Academy are over 60; another 36 percent are in their forties and fifties; and just 2 percent are under 40.




Quote:

If I were to tell you that the racial makeup of Academy membership breaks down on a ratio of 94 to six, could you guess which is which? The six actually represents all categories "other" than white, so it covers the entire range of ethnic variety (except for the whites).




Quote:

But the next fact is a shocker, because I assume that the audience is fairly well balanced in terms of gender, just as there are movies with female characters, writers and directors. And yet, the Academy has 77 percent male membership and 23 female.




Quote:

One consolation in this debt to the past is that it must mean the Academy is well supplied with experienced filmmakers, and people who have themselves been among the Oscars. But the numbers don't say that: just 14 percent of the members have won Oscars; 19 percent have been nominated; and 64 percent have nothing.




So as we can tell here it's old, white men picking the winners that have multiple years picked not a single african american which carries a lottery style statistical chance of happening per chance.

To claim that this isn't just a point in example of a larger ingrained racism within our society is quite simply a joke.


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22860616 - 02/03/16 05:56 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
The answer is obvious, blacks make up 13.2% of the US population, therefore they deserve to win 13.2% of the awards, make up 13.2% of the prison population, get elected president 13.2% of the time and only get to have 13.2% of abortions. Anything else is obviously racist, bigoted, sexist, and homophobic...





no but should make up at least 13.2% of the academy, unless the academy would indeed like to continue blatantly only representing the choices of old white men. in which case a boycott is most necessary.


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman]
    #22860633 - 02/03/16 06:02 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:

"The judge are all white"

I think that's correct and with that being said, I don't think anyone is consciously saying to themselves "I won't nominate a black", I think they genuinely are voting for the best people in their own opinion, in other words there's no conspiracy against minorities.




you tip your toe here into the definition of unconscious bias but then wrap your statement up with denying it's existence. Of course they aren't specifically thinking "I'm not picking blacks" but the chance that all 5,765 have majorly voted to not include them multiple years in a row more than once is a sign that the culture of voters is one that unconsciously is bias against them (and all minorities in general). And that's the constant point you fail to miss when systemic racism comes up. It's culturalized and internalized.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22860666 - 02/03/16 06:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
The answer is obvious, blacks make up 13.2% of the US population, therefore they deserve to win 13.2% of the awards, make up 13.2% of the prison population, get elected president 13.2% of the time and only get to have 13.2% of abortions. Anything else is obviously racist, bigoted, sexist, and homophobic...





no but should make up at least 13.2% of the academy, unless the academy would indeed like to continue blatantly only representing the choices of old white men. in which case a boycott is most necessary.




Representing old white folks? That would be the democrats running for president, right?

Or is it possible for white folks to represent all Americans? Homest question:shrug:


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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22860691 - 02/03/16 06:17 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Your defense of Darren Wilson is unfounded here, as far as my knowledge yeah he was a racist murderer, that the media mostly protected, who was let off by a faulty grand jury.





"as far as my knowledge yeah he was a racist murder"

Then your knowledge on the case is very limited, Wilson was a victim in this case as he was attacked by a over grown thug called Michael Brown.

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman] * 1
    #22860693 - 02/03/16 06:19 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Darren Wilson was a hero and gentleman, anyone who disagrees is douche who probably sucked his mom's tit til he was 12...


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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22860712 - 02/03/16 06:23 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:

"The judge are all white"

I think that's correct and with that being said, I don't think anyone is consciously saying to themselves "I won't nominate a black", I think they genuinely are voting for the best people in their own opinion, in other words there's no conspiracy against minorities.




you tip your toe here into the definition of unconscious bias but then wrap your statement up with denying it's existence. Of course they aren't specifically thinking "I'm not picking blacks" but the chance that all 5,765 have majorly voted to not include them multiple years in a row more than once is a sign that the culture of voters is one that unconsciously is bias against them (and all minorities in general). And that's the constant point you fail to miss when systemic racism comes up. It's culturalized and internalized.




So you would rather have very rational people go against their own opinions to satisfy quotas based on the theory that their expertise in judging actors/actresses is tainted by "unconscious bias"?  That doesn't make any sense.

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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman]
    #22860793 - 02/03/16 06:43 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:

"The judge are all white"

I think that's correct and with that being said, I don't think anyone is consciously saying to themselves "I won't nominate a black", I think they genuinely are voting for the best people in their own opinion, in other words there's no conspiracy against minorities.




you tip your toe here into the definition of unconscious bias but then wrap your statement up with denying it's existence. Of course they aren't specifically thinking "I'm not picking blacks" but the chance that all 5,765 have majorly voted to not include them multiple years in a row more than once is a sign that the culture of voters is one that unconsciously is bias against them (and all minorities in general). And that's the constant point you fail to miss when systemic racism comes up. It's culturalized and internalized.




So you would rather have very rational people go against their own opinions to satisfy quotas based on the theory that their expertise in judging actors/actresses is tainted by "unconscious bias"?  That doesn't make any sense.




I'm not recommending an alternative; I'm recognizing a root issue. The statistics point that this group of 98% 40+, 94% white and 73% male are choosing their own identities at notable level. It's irrefutable that this is indeed happening at a rate that has a slim chance of it ever naturally occurring. It's a good study of the unconscious bias of almost 6k individuals in the above described demographic. You know p close the same demographic representing the political and justice systems.

what alternative do I offer? the oscar's respond with re-organization of how the academy is represented. This is not a de-facto add black people. It should follow nuances in the industry and rely on previous winning experience (imo).
Or the oscar's say "we do what we want" to hollywood and the public, in which case those parties should reply with non-support. again my opinion.


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22860806 - 02/03/16 06:46 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Darren Wilson was a hero and gentleman, anyone who disagrees is douche who probably sucked his mom's tit til he was 12...




Don't worry I won't report your insults here but understand that this is exactly what you normally cry about others posting when just generally noting your ignorance of everything.

I'm sorry you're incapable of disagreeing. Must be a tough life.


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