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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: laughingdog]
    #22843508 - 01/30/16 05:42 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

qman said:
"missed the previous droughts of minority representation"

What about homosexual, transsexual, senior citizen, Asian, child, and native American representation?  Or is this all about blacks not getting what they think they deserve again?




the squeaky wheel hopes to get the grease




And people like Air fall for it every time? :lol:

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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: clam_dude]
    #22843745 - 01/30/16 06:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I could give less of a shit

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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay] * 1
    #22844284 - 01/30/16 09:08 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:
"missed the previous droughts of minority representation"

What about homosexual, transsexual, senior citizen, Asian, child, and native American representation?  Or is this all about blacks not getting what they think they deserve again?





another example of qman not reading presented material but still blathering an opinion out there.
Quote:

airclay said:

Quote:


Of course the data are not random. Yet, despite the 2015-2016 whiteout, an analysis of Oscar selections since 2000 suggests that the imbalances are industry-wide, not primarily to do with Academy voters. And they affect all ethnic minorities. Oscar nominations have not dramatically under-represented black actors. Instead, they have greatly over-represented white ones. Blacks are 12.6% of the American population, and 10% of Oscar nominations since 2000 have gone to black actors. But just 3% of nominations have gone to their Hispanic peers (16% of the population), 1% to those with Asian backgrounds, and 2% to those of other heritage (see chart).








Last para of the quoted piece of the article. quoted note once but twice in above post.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay] * 1
    #22844293 - 01/30/16 09:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Or is this all about blacks not getting what they think they deserve again?




and also wtf? this truly shows your frame of mind when approaching race issues.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22844309 - 01/30/16 09:16 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:
Or is this all about blacks not getting what they think they deserve again?




and also wtf? this truly shows your frame of mind when approaching race issues.




he's clearly got a bit of an axe to grind

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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22844344 - 01/30/16 09:29 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:
"missed the previous droughts of minority representation"

What about homosexual, transsexual, senior citizen, Asian, child, and native American representation?  Or is this all about blacks not getting what they think they deserve again?





another example of qman not reading presented material but still blathering an opinion out there.
Quote:

airclay said:

Quote:


Of course the data are not random. Yet, despite the 2015-2016 whiteout, an analysis of Oscar selections since 2000 suggests that the imbalances are industry-wide, not primarily to do with Academy voters. And they affect all ethnic minorities. Oscar nominations have not dramatically under-represented black actors. Instead, they have greatly over-represented white ones. Blacks are 12.6% of the American population, and 10% of Oscar nominations since 2000 have gone to black actors. But just 3% of nominations have gone to their Hispanic peers (16% of the population), 1% to those with Asian backgrounds, and 2% to those of other heritage (see chart).








Last para of the quoted piece of the article. quoted note once but twice in above post.




I hate to burst your equality for all bubble, but making movies is a FOR PROFIT industry!!  If white actors are more marketable to the people that purchase movies, that is what they will market.  As a result, more of them will be nominated!!

There is no conspiracy, there is no racism, Hollywood is about making money, if Asian actors sold more tickets you would see more Asian's on screen. As a result, you would see more Asian nominations.

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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22844350 - 01/30/16 09:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:
Or is this all about blacks not getting what they think they deserve again?




and also wtf? this truly shows your frame of mind when approaching race issues.




What group is throwing a shit fit about this "inequality" while no other groups are saying anything?

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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: Ezuma]
    #22844357 - 01/30/16 09:33 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:
Or is this all about blacks not getting what they think they deserve again?




and also wtf? this truly shows your frame of mind when approaching race issues.




he's clearly got a bit of an axe to grind




With people that are looking for racism when it doesn't exist, who's bitching about racism?  Not me.

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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman]
    #22844385 - 01/30/16 09:40 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:
"missed the previous droughts of minority representation"

What about homosexual, transsexual, senior citizen, Asian, child, and native American representation?  Or is this all about blacks not getting what they think they deserve again?





another example of qman not reading presented material but still blathering an opinion out there.
Quote:

airclay said:

Quote:


Of course the data are not random. Yet, despite the 2015-2016 whiteout, an analysis of Oscar selections since 2000 suggests that the imbalances are industry-wide, not primarily to do with Academy voters. And they affect all ethnic minorities. Oscar nominations have not dramatically under-represented black actors. Instead, they have greatly over-represented white ones. Blacks are 12.6% of the American population, and 10% of Oscar nominations since 2000 have gone to black actors. But just 3% of nominations have gone to their Hispanic peers (16% of the population), 1% to those with Asian backgrounds, and 2% to those of other heritage (see chart).








Last para of the quoted piece of the article. quoted note once but twice in above post.




I hate to burst your equality for all bubble, but making movies is a FOR PROFIT industry!!  If white actors are more marketable to the people that purchase movies, that is what they will market.  As a result, more of them will be nominated!!

There is no conspiracy, there is no racism, Hollywood is about making money, if Asian actors sold more tickets you would see more Asian's on screen. As a result, you would see more Asian nominations.




ha, I see you just completely dropped the above incorrect point and just went back to ranting how you feel. cool, you've got some weird bias against brown folks in general, we know, you constantly parade it.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22844399 - 01/30/16 09:45 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Do white NBA players throw a shit fit for potentially not being proportionally represented in the nomination process for league MVP?

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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman]
    #22844425 - 01/30/16 09:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I'll agree with you there's too much focus on race in america, but that doesn't mean there isn't some residual inequality to be complained about

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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman] * 1
    #22844470 - 01/30/16 10:10 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Do white NBA players throw a shit fit for potentially not being proportionally represented in the nomination process for league MVP?




gdammit, LOL, not only do you really not grasp systemic racism you also don't entirely grasp why an oscar nomination and NBA mvp award have fuck all in common.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22847424 - 01/31/16 05:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Quote:

clam_dude said:
It seems to me that even if there is a lack of diversity at the oscars, it doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that the oscars are racist.  Maybe the oscars are a representation of society, where racism undoubtedly exists.  If black people largely grow up in poverty, it makes sense that not as many of them will go into writing, directing, etc.  So, yes, racism exists.  The question is where to put the blame.  The sense I get from a lot of liberals is that racism is everywhere and therefore the accusation of racism is almost always justified.  But what if we shine the spotlight on these same white liberals? Does their group of friends represent the diversity of society? If not, we can conclude they must be racist, no?  Of course not, because the structure of racism is already in place and dictates to a certain degree who their friends are.
Anyway, the thing that gets me thinking about this the most is that in public discourse (facebook for example) there is no room for debate on this without being accused of being a racist.  As I have explained, the boycott doesn't make sense to me.  But maybe there's something I'm missing.  My asking questions about this is just an attempt to figure out the truth about this situation.  But if I were to post on facebook, where everyone I'm friends with is a liberal, they would accuse me of denying that racism exists.  And a potentially interesting conversation simply cannot be had without the fear of being called a bigot.




I like your thinking here, I do think tho that you fall short on separating outward expressions of racism and systemic racism. This is an example of systemic racism.



I'm not ignoring systemic racism.  But I'm asking the question of where to put the blame. 

Quote:

I shared that to say I get where you're coming from and I think we agree on systemic or a structure of racism but, why question those who point it out? Why as a member of the hollywood community or supporter of the oscars would you continue to support a structure of racism?




This goes to what I was saying about blame.  It seems to me that hollywood is a reflection of society, of which racism is a part.  I don't know enough about hollywood to deny or confirm that racism exists.  But what I'm trying to say is this - since systemic racism is broad and not specific to an individual, it doesn't make sense to single out certain individuals who just happen to be part of the system, to place blame on. 

So we have a general racism that people feel the need to reduce down to a single event - which may or may not be an example of racism.  For example, if Will Smith had been nominated, none of this would be happening.  Perhaps if the movie was slightly better (I haven't seen it, but heard his performance wasn't his best), we wouldn't have this boycott.  I don't know that racism played a role in the specific event that Will Smith wasn't nominated.  And it seems to me like a stretch to suggest as much. 

My general criticism of blm for example, is that we have plenty of so called examples of racism that turn out not to be racism.  Simply because people made assumptions.  This is not to deny that there are real grievances that should be protested.  But take the incident in Ferguson.  I was called a racist by many who thought I was denying the existence of racism - because I said we don't have enough information to determine that the police officer is a racist murderer.  And guess what, it turned out that he wasn't a racist murderer.  Clearly the media has an agenda to push racism into any specific incident they can.  And because it's almost always based on speculation, they're often wrong.  We don't have to eat it up like sheep in order to understand that racism clearly exists.  I wish more liberals would understand this.  Anyway, sorry for the rant.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais

Edited by clam_dude (01/31/16 05:51 PM)

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: clam_dude]
    #22848393 - 01/31/16 09:27 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Why don't they just give them all "participation trophies"?:shrug:

Fact is, just because someone represents 12% of a populace doesn't mean they should get 12% of the rewards, wealth, or property... That's fucking stupid. And no, I don't need some faggoty ass chart or lib to tell me otherwise.


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: clam_dude]
    #22849541 - 02/01/16 08:26 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

Quote:

clam_dude said:
It seems to me that even if there is a lack of diversity at the oscars, it doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that the oscars are racist.  Maybe the oscars are a representation of society, where racism undoubtedly exists.  If black people largely grow up in poverty, it makes sense that not as many of them will go into writing, directing, etc.  So, yes, racism exists.  The question is where to put the blame.  The sense I get from a lot of liberals is that racism is everywhere and therefore the accusation of racism is almost always justified.  But what if we shine the spotlight on these same white liberals? Does their group of friends represent the diversity of society? If not, we can conclude they must be racist, no?  Of course not, because the structure of racism is already in place and dictates to a certain degree who their friends are.
Anyway, the thing that gets me thinking about this the most is that in public discourse (facebook for example) there is no room for debate on this without being accused of being a racist.  As I have explained, the boycott doesn't make sense to me.  But maybe there's something I'm missing.  My asking questions about this is just an attempt to figure out the truth about this situation.  But if I were to post on facebook, where everyone I'm friends with is a liberal, they would accuse me of denying that racism exists.  And a potentially interesting conversation simply cannot be had without the fear of being called a bigot.




I like your thinking here, I do think tho that you fall short on separating outward expressions of racism and systemic racism. This is an example of systemic racism.



I'm not ignoring systemic racism.  But I'm asking the question of where to put the blame. 

Quote:

I shared that to say I get where you're coming from and I think we agree on systemic or a structure of racism but, why question those who point it out? Why as a member of the hollywood community or supporter of the oscars would you continue to support a structure of racism?




This goes to what I was saying about blame.  It seems to me that hollywood is a reflection of society, of which racism is a part.  I don't know enough about hollywood to deny or confirm that racism exists.  But what I'm trying to say is this - since systemic racism is broad and not specific to an individual, it doesn't make sense to single out certain individuals who just happen to be part of the system, to place blame on. 




Why not? how else can you fight such pervasive thought within society?

Quote:


So we have a general racism that people feel the need to reduce down to a single event - which may or may not be an example of racism.  For example, if Will Smith had been nominated, none of this would be happening.  Perhaps if the movie was slightly better (I haven't seen it, but heard his performance wasn't his best), we wouldn't have this boycott.  I don't know that racism played a role in the specific event that Will Smith wasn't nominated.  And it seems to me like a stretch to suggest as much. 

My general criticism of blm for example, is that we have plenty of so called examples of racism that turn out not to be racism.  Simply because people made assumptions.  This is not to deny that there are real grievances that should be protested.  But take the incident in Ferguson.  I was called a racist by many who thought I was denying the existence of racism - because I said we don't have enough information to determine that the police officer is a racist murderer.  And guess what, it turned out that he wasn't a racist murderer.  Clearly the media has an agenda to push racism into any specific incident they can.  And because it's almost always based on speculation, they're often wrong.  We don't have to eat it up like sheep in order to understand that racism clearly exists.  I wish more liberals would understand this.  Anyway, sorry for the rant.






I'm sorry guy but I can't get with being accepting of systemic racism. This rant both acknowledges it and then excuses and doubts it.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22849547 - 02/01/16 08:28 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Why don't they just give them all "participation trophies"?:shrug:

Fact is, just because someone represents 12% of a populace doesn't mean they should get 12% of the rewards, wealth, or property... That's fucking stupid. And no, I don't need some faggoty ass chart or lib to tell me otherwise.





nah you need a thesaurus as to not sound like a neanderthal

:nyan:


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22849581 - 02/01/16 08:39 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:
Do white NBA players throw a shit fit for potentially not being proportionally represented in the nomination process for league MVP?




gdammit, LOL, not only do you really not grasp systemic racism you also don't entirely grasp why an oscar nomination and NBA mvp award have fuck all in common.




"not grasp systemic racism"

If it doesn't exist in the first place, there's nothing to grasp.

"Oscar nomination and NBA mvp award have fuck all in common"

Actually they do, both are voted upon with their opinions on the performance of others.

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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: qman]
    #22849650 - 02/01/16 08:59 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

sports performances = tangible data/some opinion
acting performances = intangible data/all opinion

Are you one of those guys that still argues pluto's still a planet as well?
http://sociology.about.com/od/S_Index/fl/Systemic-Racism.htm


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Offlineqman
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22849677 - 02/01/16 09:07 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
sports performances = tangible data/some opinion
acting performances = intangible data/all opinion





Both are opinion based on performance. Most people not whine about it and scream racism/sexism/ageism when they don't like the results.

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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Boycotting the oscars [Re: airclay]
    #22849829 - 02/01/16 10:04 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
I'm sorry guy but I can't get with being accepting of systemic racism. This rant both acknowledges it and then excuses and doubts it.




I don't see how you can say I excuse or deny systemic racism.  What in particular did I say that would suggest this?


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais

Edited by clam_dude (02/01/16 01:20 PM)

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