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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Shins] * 2
    #22782270 - 01/15/16 01:31 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

You people have a very glorified view of the welfare system. I certainly wouldn't leave my home and uproot my children for welfare alone. Moving away from friends and family.

I swear you right wingers are so simple minded. Your enemies are all WELFARE WHORES! Yet you give the biggest sums of welfare to the people who need it the least! Go suck wall street dick and shut the fuck up.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleBubbles85

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22782284 - 01/15/16 01:39 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I certainly wouldn't leave my home and uproot my children for welfare alone. Moving away from friends and family.




Thats because you have excellent Western moral standards :cheers:


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Invisibleaconiteman10
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22782757 - 01/15/16 03:48 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

I support open national borders as I believe people should be able to move about freely. Having said that,I believe that businesses should be required to hire citizens at a living wage. Now suppose a business can show some sort of special need to hire immigrants at a  reduced wage; fine, exceptions can be made. When all is said and done, I am in support of what ever policies will provide the most people with the widest range of choices as to where they live and work. I am opposed, however to simply migrating to a country to take a job, get paid,and then sending most of the money back home. I suppose though, people have to do what they must, to support their families, whether I agree with it or not !


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: aconiteman10] * 1
    #22782767 - 01/15/16 03:51 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

aconiteman10 said:
I support open national borders as I believe people should be able to move about freely. Having said that,I believe that businesses should be required to hire citizens at a living wage. Now suppose a business can show some sort of special need to hire immigrants at a  reduced wage; fine, exceptions can be made. When all is said and done, I am in support of what ever policies will provide the most people with the widest range of choices as to where they live and work. I am opposed, however to simply migrating to a country to take a job, get paid,and then sending most of the money back home. I suppose though, people have to do what they must, to support their families, whether I agree with it or not !




The things you support are somewhat contradictory.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22782836 - 01/15/16 04:07 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Business should not have to pay a living wage to people who do not produce a living.  Banning two people from agreeing on mutually consentual wage Is just ridiculous.

That's like banning people from getting married to people below some arbitrary government threshold of ugliness.



--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Shins]
    #22782924 - 01/15/16 04:30 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Business should not have to pay a living wage to people who do not produce a living.



Probably a typo here, but what do you mean by "not produce a living"?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22782950 - 01/15/16 04:38 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Here's a metaphor - if you are lost in the woods you must work to gather things to sustain your life, you need to make a living for yourself.  If you do not produce enough to survive, you have not produced a living and you die. 

Just because someone shows up for 8 hours does necessarily mean he has done enough work to equal "a living"  if someone produces less than "a living"  they do not deserve to be paid "a living"  they in fact do not even deserve to live.  In the wild there is no government to save you.  You would have been naturally selected as a weak member of the species.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Shins] * 3
    #22782967 - 01/15/16 04:46 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Here's a metaphor - if you are lost in the woods you must work to gather things to sustain your life, you need to make a living for yourself.  If you do not produce enough to survive, you have not produced a living and you die. 

Just because someone shows up for 8 hours does necessarily mean he has done enough work to equal "a living"  if someone produces less than "a living"  they do not deserve to be paid "a living"  they in fact do not even deserve to live.  In the wild there is no government to save you.  You would have been naturally selected as a weak member of the species.




'they in fact do not even deserve to live', interesting. I guess we should kill off the disabled, or let them die. How about the severely depressed?

'In the wild' lol! You're such a naturalist! :lol:

Human beings are a communal species. Modern day individualism is a very new phenomena, and completely unnatural. Native groups took care of their elderly and their sick, spread the wealth amongst themselves, and cooperated with one another to achieve their goals.

Don't sit there and pretend that there is anything 'natural' about the existence of billionaires, while applying your Darwinist principles to the poor. Donald Trump is an heir, not some self-made-man, though he'd like you to think that. The wealthy use the system for their own preservation more than anyone else, and moving and shaking, in the modern era, is not 'hunting and gathering'.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (01/15/16 04:48 PM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Malkuthian]
    #22782984 - 01/15/16 04:51 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Malkuthian said:
Huh, interesting points! I thought they are after survival instead of being bombed to death, guess I was wrong. That's clear now!

Are you seriously making the point that the immigrants aren't actually refugees fleeing, but people who want to take advantage of our welfare systems?




They're coming from Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Northern Africa, Iran, ect. and also Syria.

They are taking advantage of a chaotic situation and claiming to be fleeing from Syria, most are lying.

Living on welfare in Germany is 100 times better than living in the shitholes that came from in the first place.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22783048 - 01/15/16 05:14 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
You people have a very glorified view of the welfare system. I certainly wouldn't leave my home and uproot my children for welfare alone. Moving away from friends and family.

I swear you right wingers are so simple minded. Your enemies are all WELFARE WHORES! Yet you give the biggest sums of welfare to the people who need it the least! Go suck wall street dick and shut the fuck up.




If your home is a shithole and there's no hope, uprooting to Germany and France to go on welfare is a no brainer.

The fact that Wall Street is a corrupt welfare state itself doesn't justify illegals using welfare inside the US and EU.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22783078 - 01/15/16 05:21 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I guess we should kill off the disabled, or let them die. How about the severely depressed?



Government shouldn't get involved.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Shins] * 2
    #22783147 - 01/15/16 05:43 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Just because someone shows up for 8 hours does necessarily mean he has done enough work to equal "a living"  if someone produces less than "a living"  they do not deserve to be paid "a living"  they in fact do not even deserve to live.



I got a better idea.  How about if someone doesn't deserve to be paid a living wage you simply don't hire them?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22783366 - 01/15/16 06:34 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Here's a metaphor - if you are lost in the woods you must work to gather things to sustain your life, you need to make a living for yourself.  If you do not produce enough to survive, you have not produced a living and you die. 

Just because someone shows up for 8 hours does necessarily mean he has done enough work to equal "a living"  if someone produces less than "a living"  they do not deserve to be paid "a living"  they in fact do not even deserve to live.  In the wild there is no government to save you.  You would have been naturally selected as a weak member of the species.




'they in fact do not even deserve to live', interesting. I guess we should kill off the disabled, or let them die. How about the severely depressed?

'In the wild' lol! You're such a naturalist! :lol:

Human beings are a communal species. Modern day individualism is a very new phenomena, and completely unnatural. Native groups took care of their elderly and their sick, spread the wealth amongst themselves, and cooperated with one another to achieve their goals.

Don't sit there and pretend that there is anything 'natural' about the existence of billionaires, while applying your Darwinist principles to the poor. Donald Trump is an heir, not some self-made-man, though he'd like you to think that. The wealthy use the system for their own preservation more than anyone else, and moving and shaking, in the modern era, is not 'hunting and gathering'.





As I recall, Liberals love to make fun of creationists for not believing in evolution.  Who doesn't believe in Darwinism now?

Communities are made up of individuals...Durrr.  of course people form communities spontaneously,  it is advantageous to do so.

That's not what you're talking about though, you're talking about a government monopoly enforced by armed officials.  That is not voluntary, communal co-operation.  That is armed exploitation and thuggery.


Your views on native history are also laughably juvenile and neve.  Natives did not live in the utopia you think they did.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22783383 - 01/15/16 06:39 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Just because someone shows up for 8 hours does necessarily mean he has done enough work to equal "a living"  if someone produces less than "a living"  they do not deserve to be paid "a living"  they in fact do not even deserve to live.



I got a better idea.  How about if someone doesn't deserve to be paid a living wage you simply don't hire them?





Wow.  Could falcon actually be starting to understand why raising minimum wage also raises unemployment?!  Could it be!?

That's EXACTLY what will happen falcon.  All it does is price unskilled people put of the market.

You'll need a university degree for entry level jobs.  Enjoy your student debt for that too.  Take solice though because the schools are huge contributes to the democrat party. They love student debt, it's how the Democrats fund their campaigns.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Shins]
    #22783535 - 01/15/16 07:32 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Muslim on the bus in Sweden, yeah "cultural diversity" is just wonderful.



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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Shins] * 3
    #22783653 - 01/15/16 08:04 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Jesus, you're just as bad as HU.

Evolution is an observable fact of reality. Social Darwinism is not.

Raising the minimum wage (within reason) has never been shown to significantly impact employment rates. You should look at the hard data on the subject.

The rest of your post is just anti-'librawwwwl' bullshit, so I'll leave it at that.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineWAN
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: aconiteman10]
    #22783655 - 01/15/16 08:05 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

aconiteman10 said:
I support open national borders as I believe people should be able to move about freely.



Then I should freely move into your house because "people should be able to move about freely".


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OfflineWAN
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Shins]
    #22783660 - 01/15/16 08:06 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Here's a metaphor - if you are lost in the woods you must work to gather things to sustain your life, you need to make a living for yourself.  If you do not produce enough to survive, you have not produced a living and you die. 

Just because someone shows up for 8 hours does necessarily mean he has done enough work to equal "a living"  if someone produces less than "a living"  they do not deserve to be paid "a living"  they in fact do not even deserve to live.  In the wild there is no government to save you.  You would have been naturally selected as a weak member of the species.



Naturalistic fallacy.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #22783672 - 01/15/16 08:08 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I guess we should kill off the disabled, or let them die. How about the severely depressed?



Government shouldn't get involved.




I disagree, but I don't think you and I are likely to see eye to eye on this matter. Honestly, I think it goes back to the cultural values of a given society. There isn't a right or wrong here, necessarily. A moral imperative in Western culture may not be so imperative in say, a Middle-Eastern culture.

If these things are done democratically, in a healthy democracy, then whatever society decides, is probably the right way to go for them.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (01/15/16 08:10 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Shins] * 2
    #22783676 - 01/15/16 08:09 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
How about if someone doesn't deserve to be paid a living wage you simply don't hire them?



Wow.  Could falcon actually be starting to understand why raising minimum wage also raises unemployment?!  Could it be!?

That's EXACTLY what will happen falcon.  All it does is price unskilled people put of the market.



I'm glad you have a high school understanding of economics, but empirical evidence shows that raising the minimum wage will NOT raise unemployment.  People here have repeatedly provided evidence of real world data showing short term jobs are NOT significantly reduced by minimum wage increases, and they are not reduced at all in the long term.

The Most Rigorous Research Shows Minimum Wage Increases Do Not Reduce Employment
Why Does the Minimum Wage Have No Discernible Effect on Employment?
Study Showed Raising The Minimum Wage Did NOT Raise Unemployment

Even zappaisgod was kind enough to show evidence that a massive 40% increase in minimum wage will only have a 0.3% short term impact on employment:
Quote:

CBO: Raise the min wage by 40%, total employment falls by 0.3%. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44995-MinimumWage.pdf




This is because most employees today are paid FAR less than they're worth to a company.

Quote:

Shins said:
You'll need a university degree for entry level jobs.  Enjoy your student debt for that too.  Take solice though because the schools are huge contributes to the democrat party. They love student debt, it's how the Democrats fund their campaigns.



Student debt is how democrats fund their campaigns?!?  That's news to me.  Can you please share your evidence...  :popcorn:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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