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free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade.
    #2275078 -

what's the most ethical position?  what are the positions? how does america make money after all the manufacturing/ farming moves to places with cheaper labor and we're all "service industry" people? who do we serve? 

I want easy answers, damn it!  :mad:


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2275166 -

wait!, collect your thoughts then make your post....they never really seem anything more than disjointed questions/rant.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2275214 -

Quote:
I want easy answers, damn it!


Then listen to Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilley. If you want intelligent answers, well, that's another story.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2275364 -

silversoul7 said:
Quote:
I want easy answers, damn it!


Then listen to Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilley. If you want intelligent answers, well, that's another story.



or I could read adbusters. they've got some pretty easy ones too.

Quote:
wait!, collect your thoughts then make your post....they never really seem anything more than disjointed questions/rant.



see, that's what debate is - collecting thoughts. but if you're done, then why don't you share the set?

my questions are grouped as they are to frame the issue somewhat.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2275382 -

Malachi said:
what's the most ethical position? 


There isn't a 'most ethical' postion.

Malachi said:
what are the positions?


check your karma sutra....

Quote:
Malachi said:how does america make money after all the manufacturing/ farming moves to places with cheaper labor and we're all "service industry" people?


Secondary industries too, don't forget.

Quote:
Malachi said:who do we serve? 


The people who work the secondary industries, tourists, service personel who are off work, anyone that has money to blow...

Quote:
Malachi said:I want easy answers, damn it!  :mad:


Does that satisfy you? :rolleyes:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2275444 -

Quote:
There isn't a 'most ethical' postion.



you're denying the existence of ethics?  care to defend that claim?

Quote:
check your karma sutra....




:blush:

Quote:
Secondary industries too, don't forget.




like.... underwater basket weaving?

Quote:
The people who work the secondary industries, tourists, service personel who are off work, anyone that has money to blow...



so... the weavers and rich people from other countries will provide for the rest of us, huh?  about as likely as expecting everyone to derive income from tech.

Quote:
Does that satisfy you? 



***Edited by Rono...Don't even think about flaming in this forum...I suggest you read the forum rules before posting in here again...Consider this your warning.***


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

Edited by Rono (01/27/04 11:09 AM)

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2277488 -

oh come on, that was so obviously sarcastic. "deleted by Rono...What part of "No-Flaming" and "Strictly Enforced" is unclear?..."


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

Edited by Rono (01/27/04 04:44 PM)

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2277494 -

come on people, trade is such a murky ethical issue, a topic that could actually have a chance of being fleshed out in a forum (vs endless back and forth).

wow me with some political savvy.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2277513 -

come on people, trade is such a murky ethical issue, a topic that could actually have a chance of being fleshed out in a forum (vs endless back and forth).

how, as long as the trades are voluntary and honest, can people trading with eachother be a "murky ethical issue"?

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: ]
    #2277536 -

because of the effects of such trade. even assuming that the western world is just "better" at trading then everyone else, can the consequences of our superiority really be stomached? little girls are whoring themselves all over southeast asia, and I bet they don't like it. personally, I'd like to see child whoring stopped. but I'd also like america to enjoy good times.

see the quagmire?


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2277681 -

Malachi said:
wow me with some political savvy.


go wow yourself...,and you wonder why your threads get little responce. :rolleyes:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2277800 -

because of the effects of such trade. even assuming that the western world is just "better" at trading then everyone else, can the consequences of our superiority really be stomached?

i'm sorry, but i fail to see the connection between free trade and child prostitution. how does free trade aggravate poverty?

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: ]
    #2278045 -

You all miss the point.

Here is the answer he wants and is most likely the only one he will accept.


AMERICA IS EVIL! KILL WHITEY!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2278341 -

im sure he is wowed by your easy, but politically savay responce... :lol:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2278369 -

free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade.

One entry found for free trade.
Main Entry: free trade
Function: noun
: trade based on the unrestricted international exchange of goods with tariffs used only as a source of revenue

One entry found for protectionist.
Main Entry: pro?tec?tion?ist
Pronunciation: -sh(&-)nist
Function: noun
: an advocate of government economic protection for domestic producers through restrictions on foreign competitors
- pro?tec?tion?ism  /-sh&-"ni-z&m/ noun
- protectionist adjective

:smirk:

i was all about free trade until i moved up to maine and saw what the florida orange crop was doing to the orange farmers up there. i mean... it's hard enough to grow orange trees up there, and ontop of that, they have to deal with competition from florida. shit ain't right. i see alot of ex-orange farmers up in maine... thrown out of work cause of that damn free trade. bah!

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2278380 -

Azmodeus said:
Malachi said:
wow me with some political savvy.


go wow yourself...,and you wonder why your threads get little responce. :rolleyes:


no, I don't think a little sarcasm is the reason for a lack of response.  I think people are more interested in railing on the same old shit instead of engaging in a possibly fruitful discussion.  there aren't easy answers to ethical trade (despite my facetious claim of wanting them.)

you seem like a very solemn person.  :frown:


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2278395 -

The most ethical trade is to allow to parties who mutually agree without the use of force or threat of force on exchanging goods, services or currency to do so.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: ]
    #2278396 -

mushmaster said:
i'm sorry, but i fail to see the connection between free trade and child prostitution. how does free trade aggravate poverty?


we have ostensibly "free" trade with asian countries that are poverty strucken. if we are to accept such a claim, then it stands to reason that we're just so good at trading that we get all the resources, hence all that little girls in thailand have to trade is their bodies. which americans buy.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: ]
    #2278408 -

mushmaster said:
free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade.

One entry found for free trade.
Main Entry: free trade
Function: noun
: trade based on the unrestricted international exchange of goods with tariffs used only as a source of revenue

One entry found for protectionist.
Main Entry: pro?tec?tion?ist
Pronunciation: -sh(&-)nist
Function: noun
: an advocate of government economic protection for domestic producers through restrictions on foreign competitors
- pro?tec?tion?ism  /-sh&-"ni-z&m/ noun
- protectionist adjective

:smirk:

i was all about free trade until i moved up to maine and saw what the florida orange crop was doing to the orange farmers up there. i mean... it's hard enough to grow orange trees up there, and ontop of that, they have to deal with competition from florida. shit ain't right. i see alot of ex-orange farmers up in maine... thrown out of work cause of that damn free trade. bah!


well, it's not quite so bad, seeing as how their is welfare in maine.  the third world isn't so fortunate.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: free, fair, protectionist, nationalist trade. [Re: Malachi]
    #2278413 -

we have ostensibly "free" trade with asian countries that are poverty strucken. if we are to accept such a claim, then it stands to reason that we're just so good at trading that we get all the resources, hence all that little girls in thailand have to trade is their bodies. which americans buy.

trading with us is not the cause of the poverty you see there. tariffs provide short-term benefit to some at the expense of others, and the overall effect is negative.

trade is good. trade is specialization. it is efficiency.

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