|
 Thanatos10
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
|
|
I'm very skeptical about the whole pain body aspect. Those thoughts and feeling are nothing more than that.
The long and short is that thoughts are thoughts. They are good or bad, they just are. What is trouble is our relationship to the thoughts. I think the Buddha was sad, but he wasn't attached to the emotion. It came, stayed, and left. He didn't try to stop or make it stay, like a river he just let it flow. The hard part is that thought and emotions create reactions that make us clamp onto them rather than let them be. Particularly sadness and anger, even joy. We are not our thoughts, as hard as that is to see.
--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
|
Domdelic
PsyCatalyst
Registered: 12/26/15
Posts: 89
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
 Re: did the buddha ever feel sad?  [Re: Thanatos10]
#22746290 - 01/06/16 10:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:s
I'm very skeptical about the whole pain body aspect. Those thoughts and feeling are nothing more than that.
The long and short is that thoughts are thoughts. They are good or bad, they just are. What is trouble is our relationship to the thoughts. I think the Buddha was sad, but he wasn't attached to the emotion. It came, stayed, and left. He didn't try to stop or make it stay, like a river he just let it flow. The hard part is that thought and emotions create reactions that make us clamp onto them rather than let them be. Particularly sadness and anger, even joy. We are not our thoughts, as hard as that is to see.
And exactly -that- is the pain body (clamping onto them, reacting on them, identifying with them) and by that it is created.
In regards to OP (and to what has been said already), I wonder where the balance is to be found between "acceptingly seeing things as they are" and "putting effort into change for the better", e.g. accepting loneliness for being there, not identifying with it, meditating on it, detachingly seeing it for what it is, while simultaneously trying to create change in ones life to maybe change it? E.g. opening up? Isn`t the very act of "trying to change" out of "non-acceptance and attachment towards these seemingly negative emotions", and then again, makes us acceptance and detachment bound to not do anything at all about our "stuff" that seemingly bothers us (that is e.g. producing this sadness or loneliness)?
I mean Buddha being detached, but what else did he do in his life other than being detached and teaching others to do the same? He didn`t do anything else and was a beggar after all. Left wife, left kids etc.
How do we create synthesis between "not giving in and feeding the pain-body, detaching" and "healing/changing circumstances that are the cause of the painful emotions we started to identify with".
Another question to that would maybe be "how much of this sadness and loneliness is caused by actual outer circumstances, and how much by actual inner-stuff like clinging, identifying etc.".
? o.o
--------------------
"Ten thousand things, all in this breath…”
why are people in this world so busy?
just for this one breath
they say, “busy, busy, mine, mine….”
busy a whole lifetime for “Me”
when this breath is cut off..
you let go of the whole universe
why not let go from the start?"
`One mans trash is another mans LSD.´
|
Thanatos10
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
|
Re: did the buddha ever feel sad? [Re: Domdelic]
#22746537 - 01/06/16 11:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I don't think it is a creation. It's just you. No pain body, just you holding onto thoughts and feelings. It's not some parasite feeding off you, all of it is you. I think that's just deflecting responsibility in a way.
--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
|
Domdelic
PsyCatalyst
Registered: 12/26/15
Posts: 89
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
Re: did the buddha ever feel sad? [Re: Thanatos10]
#22746757 - 01/07/16 12:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
I don't think it is a creation. It's just you. No pain body, just you holding onto thoughts and feelings. It's not some parasite feeding off you, all of it is you. I think that's just deflecting responsibility in a way.
The act of holding onto thoughts and feelings is pain body. You could as well say that there is no "mind", there is simply the act of thinking. When the thinking stops, where is the mind? Same goes for pain body. And for ego at large. It`s more to be understood as a process and not some separate creation in the traditional sense of creation.
--------------------
"Ten thousand things, all in this breath…”
why are people in this world so busy?
just for this one breath
they say, “busy, busy, mine, mine….”
busy a whole lifetime for “Me”
when this breath is cut off..
you let go of the whole universe
why not let go from the start?"
`One mans trash is another mans LSD.´
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida 
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
Re: did the buddha ever feel sad? [Re: Thanatos10]
#22746809 - 01/07/16 01:25 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
The "pain body" is a metaphor, but so is every description of life's experience except for the medical materialist, who is quite concrete about medical prognosis.  Tolle isn't being concrete however, and his model fits with hypnotherapy and hypnotherapy's use of metaphor like hand-in-glove. Metaphors and models are the most useful of mental mechanics. We are not our thoughts but people are as addicted to their thoughts as they are to their false identities.
--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
|
zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
|
Re: did the buddha ever feel sad? [Re: Kickle]
#22746908 - 01/07/16 02:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
your main question is this:
Quote:
the question i think i'm more focused on is 'did he experience sadness without attachment, or did his non-attachment destroy sadness?', because the answer to this question will strongly influence the question of how i should respond to my own sadness
There is no evidence Siddhartha Gautama existed. So I would really dig that and not hero worship. it is absurd and quite ugly to imagine someone never felt sad again. Sadness is part of life. I am surprised you include this idea because earlier you said something like you can't appreacte the good unless you know bad and vice verse. Exactly, to be REALLY non dualistic is not going 'beyond' sadness and joy, good and bad, whatever that would even mean. It is deeply understanding that you cannot have sad without joy, good without bad, darkness without light, death without life and vice verse. This mystery which is life is not conflicting opposites or opposites to be transcended, but dynamic living reality which is forever changing, forever alive and not static and dead like the rigid concept you can only have one part of a dynamic -eg only have 'ternal life', or in secular concepts 'when your dead your dead'
Ec~static is a state of being, most often inspired with the help of psychedelics, when you suddenly see and feel and understand beyond the static conceptual matrix. See beyond what religious and cultural conditioning (both East and West) as instilled in you since you were little. Cultures that make you have to play roles, wear MASKS. Like you feel with this peer pressure to always have the goddamn smiley mask on when you really feel seriously sad and lost.
it is awaful when you have to live images others have of you, and this causes terrible ditress even leading to self-harm, addictions and even suicide. Another example is the poor kid whose parents push an image of them being a 'high achiever' in school when really the victim does not want their parents dream at ALL, but it is so drilled into them that even they often cannot acknowledge the contradiction but it causes deep distress nonetheless
Another one is the gay child trying to be 'straight' to please parents, friends, and society! And people in relationships who put on masks to pretend also
Forget 'Buddha'. IF he was real he was some cat with a totally different life living in totally different times (wasn't he supposed to be an ex-prince?!) different culture. You are a modern cat living in a more and more insane world of cell phones, video games, 'war on terror' BS, '9/11', threat of bombs raining down + nukes, threat of the very natural world being destroyed for all. I think it is insane for people NOT to feel sadness with what is going on. I worry more about people walking round all happy wappy and self-obsessed!! They are shallow and dead to me.
I was reading this post and it struck me: I used to be very open with my emotions. To positive response, generally. Sadness was out and open, happiness, frustration, anxiety. It didn't matter to me. But at some point I stopped being selfish about it and started focusing on making other people's days better. And that led to me smiling and being happy for the sake of others. Not for me, but for others. To smile and see someone smile back is MUCH better IME than to frown at someone because I had a crummy morning and I have the ability to connect and bring them into that. I'd rather connect and have them beam! Not exclusively but generally.
Just saying, I don't follow all of your post for that reason.
There's one thing smiling and saying I am alright thanks when a person walks past and asks 'how do you do?' In that instance maybe a person doesn't want the truth if you do not feel good, and you way lay them for half an hour telling them your troubles.
But with close friends to put on the smiley mask all the time, or the funny mask, or any set-mask is phony, and not being open. Women have been known to not hold back showing emotions with friends, but males have been taught that it is 'un manly' to show too much emotion, and what this does is cause all kinds of inner turmoil even leading to suicide!
If you genuinely feel good that is FAR better than putting it on
Many people love good comedians when they are honest because it gives you the freedom to be so too and it also makes you laugh out loud lol
|
GoldenEye
...
Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 9 months, 4 days
|
|
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
GoldenEye said:
Of course he did. He was human.
i agree,
and this is why i wonder about the buddha...--i know he started out sad--his awareness of suffering is what put him on his own path--but did he eventually come to transcend this sadness, or did he just learn to understand the need for sorrow in life--did he experience sadness without attachment, or did his non-attachment destroy sadness?
i'm not sure how to go about answering this question
I don't think there is a way to know. How do you know you've done everything right and are as enlightened as the Buddha? How can two humans have the exact same experiences?
But, I also don't think Buddhism is aimed at transcending sadness at all. Its more a naked awareness thing. My guess would be that he still cycled through different emotions, as we all do. The difference would be that he'd continuously be aware of the transient nature of those emotions and experience the underlying naked awareness at the same time. So like you said, non-attachment, although that is a bit of a weird description towards sadness. Who would feel attachment to sadness? (I guess some do)
|
 Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,979
Last seen: 3 minutes, 57 seconds
|
Re: did the buddha ever feel sad? [Re: zzripz]
#22747053 - 01/07/16 05:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
your main question is this:
Quote:
the question i think i'm more focused on is 'did he experience sadness without attachment, or did his non-attachment destroy sadness?', because the answer to this question will strongly influence the question of how i should respond to my own sadness
There is no evidence Siddhartha Gautama existed. So I would really dig that and not hero worship. it is absurd and quite ugly to imagine someone never felt sad again. Sadness is part of life. I am surprised you include this idea because earlier you said something like you can't appreacte the good unless you know bad and vice verse. Exactly, to be REALLY non dualistic is not going 'beyond' sadness and joy, good and bad, whatever that would even mean. It is deeply understanding that you cannot have sad without joy, good without bad, darkness without light, death without life and vice verse. This mystery which is life is not conflicting opposites or opposites to be transcended, but dynamic living reality which is forever changing, forever alive and not static and dead like the rigid concept you can only have one part of a dynamic -eg only have 'ternal life', or in secular concepts 'when your dead your dead'
Ec~static is a state of being, most often inspired with the help of psychedelics, when you suddenly see and feel and understand beyond the static conceptual matrix. See beyond what religious and cultural conditioning (both East and West) as instilled in you since you were little. Cultures that make you have to play roles, wear MASKS. Like you feel with this peer pressure to always have the goddamn smiley mask on when you really feel seriously sad and lost.
it is awaful when you have to live images others have of you, and this causes terrible ditress even leading to self-harm, addictions and even suicide. Another example is the poor kid whose parents push an image of them being a 'high achiever' in school when really the victim does not want their parents dream at ALL, but it is so drilled into them that even they often cannot acknowledge the contradiction but it causes deep distress nonetheless
Another one is the gay child trying to be 'straight' to please parents, friends, and society! And people in relationships who put on masks to pretend also
Forget 'Buddha'. IF he was real he was some cat with a totally different life living in totally different times (wasn't he supposed to be an ex-prince?!) different culture. You are a modern cat living in a more and more insane world of cell phones, video games, 'war on terror' BS, '9/11', threat of bombs raining down + nukes, threat of the very natural world being destroyed for all. I think it is insane for people NOT to feel sadness with what is going on. I worry more about people walking round all happy wappy and self-obsessed!! They are shallow and dead to me.
I was reading this post and it struck me: I used to be very open with my emotions. To positive response, generally. Sadness was out and open, happiness, frustration, anxiety. It didn't matter to me. But at some point I stopped being selfish about it and started focusing on making other people's days better. And that led to me smiling and being happy for the sake of others. Not for me, but for others. To smile and see someone smile back is MUCH better IME than to frown at someone because I had a crummy morning and I have the ability to connect and bring them into that. I'd rather connect and have them beam! Not exclusively but generally.
Just saying, I don't follow all of your post for that reason.
There's one thing smiling and saying I am alright thanks when a person walks past and asks 'how do you do?' In that instance maybe a person doesn't want the truth if you do not feel good, and you way lay them for half an hour telling them your troubles.
But with close friends to put on the smiley mask all the time, or the funny mask, or any set-mask is phony, and not being open. Women have been known to not hold back showing emotions with friends, but males have been taught that it is 'un manly' to show too much emotion, and what this does is cause all kinds of inner turmoil even leading to suicide!
If you genuinely feel good that is FAR better than putting it on
Many people love good comedians when they are honest because it gives you the freedom to be so too and it also makes you laugh out loud lol
--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale 
Red Vein Kratom 
Buy Bali Kratom Powder 
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order
Edit 
Reply 
lucid
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
MentalHygene
chunder
Anonymous
Grav
Squatting_Otter