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Offlinenubious
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Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves?
    #2268427 - 01/24/04 02:18 PM (20 years, 8 days ago)

How many of you know a female that shows off a little more than the rest? How does she project herself to the rest of society? Does she try to get by on it, does she beam more arrogance because of it, or is she just as grounded as everyone else?\


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2268437 - 01/24/04 02:23 PM (20 years, 8 days ago)

Everyone's reasons are their own... its hard to say. Depends on who they are and their intentions. I'm not one to be able to start to figure out other people's thoughts theoretically like that. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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InvisibleJared
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2268440 - 01/24/04 02:23 PM (20 years, 8 days ago)

I can count one here.

She tries to impose the idea that she is extremly desireable upon everyone she knows, and makes big deals about minor acomplishments. "Look! I bought a new shirt!!!/tied my shoes/cooked a can of soup/drew a shitty picture. She is far from grounded, and lives life to ammass material possesions, people and friends being on the same level(possessions) to her :P

Your avatar kicks ass.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Jared]
    #2268498 - 01/24/04 02:48 PM (20 years, 8 days ago)

Someone like that is just insecure. I had a guy in my life like that. It took a while for me to realize what it was. He's very into "appearances" rather than what's inside.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2268530 - 01/24/04 03:01 PM (20 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
Someone like that is just insecure. I had a guy in my life like that. It took a while for me to realize what it was. He's very into "appearances" rather than what's inside.




But it doesn't have to be that way, necessarily. There are countless possibiliites of what is going through that girl's head. Hell, her whole personality on here could be a construct. There are some people who have a lot going on in their mind, and to someone with limited experience with that person, and possibly a limited understanding, their actions could end up being pretty damned chaotic.

Its been my understanding that chaos isn't truly chaos, it is just that there is an unknown invovled, influencing actions and flows. The more impartial and aware someone is, the more their understanding will be based on true reality.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePed
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2268556 - 01/24/04 03:09 PM (20 years, 8 days ago)

We judge others because we are incapable, or find tremendous aversion to judging ourselves.  Those of us who feel the need to demonstrate beauty, sex appeal or importance often have the view that they themselves are being continuously judged by others.  Such a view is dependent upon the mental disposition of the viewer.  If we have a habitually judgemental mind, we will gradually begin to assume that others are the same way, making assessments of us moment by moment.

This delusion becomes a form of paranoia that manifests in a number of ways.  It can be a significant shyness, a deeply cynical or confrontational attitude toward others, an excessive exuberance toward others, or a showy demeanor.

But we should be careful not to categorize anyone this way.  An obviously showy attitude or alluring dress is equally likely to arise from a hunger for attention, or ego-validation.  Ego-validation might be sought because the individual was blessed at birth with a weakened ego that is not as powerful at asserting itself over the individual.  Such beings are closer to Buddhahood than we, and should be considered our precious teachers!    :grin:  :heart:


--------------------


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2270687 - 01/25/04 04:28 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
Someone like that is just insecure. I had a guy in my life like that. It took a while for me to realize what it was. He's very into "appearances" rather than what's inside.




Are you saying you're insecure? I appologize if this upsets you, but your picture demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about... now I know this is an internet forum, but this is exactly the kind of behaviour I'm talking about.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflinePed
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2271168 - 01/25/04 09:43 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

It's not as though she is sitting in any overtly erotic posture. I found Frog's avatar to be rather honest. It says "this is the person speaking to you. Hello." Very friendly.


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Offlinestara
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2271199 - 01/25/04 10:04 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

Zen:In the first days everything's the same as before.After a little while you realize things and their meanings start to change a little bit.If you matured and had proggress with it; mountains aren't no more mountains and rivers aren't no more rivers for you.If you can  reach to a higher level of perception(satori)again:mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers for you.I cannot criticize these people and I like these kind of grotesque women which look very different from others.You probably think they're not natural but sometimes yes they are ,you have to look at the background.(sorry about english) :smile:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2271292 - 01/25/04 10:45 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

Men flaunt and idolize themselves just as much as women.

It's just that in society right now, a woman can be considered great just by being beautiful.

Women consider men in power to be sexy. So men can feel good about themselves just by working on their careers, and trying to accomplish more. Men don't feel the same about women. If they don't have the looks, they don't want it.

So why is it that you consider this to be a problem with women? It only makes sense that they would try to define themselves by looking good.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Phluck]
    #2271298 - 01/25/04 10:47 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

I should clarify the part about men flaunting themselves.

They don't generally do it in the same way women do. They brag, show off, act loud and obnoxious, all to make themselves look powerful and confident.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2271316 - 01/25/04 10:54 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

nubious said:
Quote:

Frog said:
Someone like that is just insecure.  I had a guy in my life like that.  It took a while for me to realize what it was.  He's very into "appearances" rather than what's inside.




Are you saying you're insecure?  I appologize if this upsets you, but your picture demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about...  now I know this is an internet forum, but this is exactly the kind of behaviour I'm talking about.




I don't know how you figured out that I'm insecure based on what I said, or that I'm upset about anything.  :wtf:

I'm probably the least insecure person I know.  I'm a good person, I'm intelligent, and I'm attractive.  And I put my picture as my avatar because it is "me".  People can see who they are talking to. 

What is the "behavior" that my avatar describes?  I wish everyone would use their pictures as their avatars.  I like seeing what people look like.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2271367 - 01/25/04 11:16 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

Some people are insecure and all that matters is their looks and what they have. Other people are not insecure and post their pics as their avatars because they are proud of the fact that they are 45, have had 5 chldren, and have taken care of themselves.

It would seem to me that someone that would worry about someone else's use of their pic as their avatar, and accusing that person as flaunting themselves, is probably insecure.

You should ask yourself why it bothers you.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2271399 - 01/25/04 11:28 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

Maybe he'd rather you wore a burkha.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinestara
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2271457 - 01/25/04 11:46 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

I don't think pictures are good for representation.First it's not you it's your photo and it's often nothing to do with real you.Second even if it's done perfectly it hasn't got any movements,however movements are very important and also the voice and natural interactions in the society...'I' is always relative and there's sth called first impression :beauty(relative)Peace.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: stara]
    #2271473 - 01/25/04 11:51 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

There.  I changed my avatar.  Do you and nubious feel better about yourselves now?  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Phluck]
    #2271488 - 01/25/04 11:59 AM (20 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Maybe he'd rather you wore a burkha.




:lol:

And Frog, change it back.  :thumbup:

If anyone is going to to start making assumptions of another person through a form of communication that has limited capabilities of carrying expression, they are the ones with some problems... Its no problem when someone else uses pictures of sexy women in their avatars that aren't actually that person, is it?

I don't think that man who has been walking acrossed England naked was doing it because he was overly egotistical and was really absorbed in how he looks... I think he was trying to prove a point.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinestara
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2271536 - 01/25/04 12:21 PM (20 years, 7 days ago)

Actually your picture was very cute so that was not meant for you.That was meant for me myself because I haven't got any cute photos
though I'm very cute  :laugh:


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2271606 - 01/25/04 12:50 PM (20 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

I don't know how you figured out that I'm insecure based on what I said, or that I'm upset about anything.

I'm probably the least insecure person I know. I'm a good person, I'm intelligent, and I'm attractive. And I put my picture as my avatar because it is "me". People can see who they are talking to.

What is the "behavior" that my avatar describes? I wish everyone would use their pictures as their avatars. I like seeing what people look like.




I suggested you might be feeling insecure based on "Someone like that is just insecure. I had a guy in my life like that. It took a while for me to realize what it was. He's very into "appearances" rather than what's inside."

I'll admit, Frog, that this point was intended for you, not as a shot but moreso as an attempt to get people's opinions on how they view this kinda stuff (showing body parts off - the attitude thing was just an addition).. I'm not saying you project an attitude, but the second I mentioned your behaviour you kicked into defense mode, not admitting that MAYBE, just maybe, showing your legs off to an online community is a little inapproriate.

Perhaps I am insecure, no wait.. I know I'm insecure.. why shouldn't I be? Have you turned on the news lately? You didn't need to change your avatar.. It doesn't offend me. I was just hoping I could use it as an example. Oh, and my mom is 43, has 3 kids, and takes care of herself.. that doesn't mean she has it all together.

Being proud is ok, just try not to choke.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2271756 - 01/25/04 01:47 PM (20 years, 7 days ago)

"just maybe, showing your legs off to an online community is a little inapproriate."

Why would that be inappropriate? Do naked legs offend people? Is she going to be attacked because she showed off her legs?

I don't understand what could possibly be inappropriate about that.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2271757 - 01/25/04 01:47 PM (20 years, 7 days ago)

It's okay, nubious.  I already talked to my guru about it.  He told me that you specifically started this thread to provoke me into responding so that you could attack me. 

I'm not offended, and I'm not insecure.  But ("Being proud is ok, just try not to choke") you just might be an asshole!  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2271768 - 01/25/04 01:50 PM (20 years, 7 days ago)

Whoa, I think your Guru is right, actually. :oogle:


--------------------
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OfflinePed
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2271795 - 01/25/04 01:58 PM (20 years, 7 days ago)

>> but the second I mentioned your behaviour you kicked into defense mode, not admitting that MAYBE, just maybe, showing your legs off to an online community is a little inapproriate.

Your suggestion, then, is that her prompt and defensive reaction indicates the motives behind her avatar and the underlying insecurity that drives a person to exhibit themselves for the approval of others.

That kind of logic is perfectly consistent, but becomes irrational when it is thrust onto others as an evaluation. You would not approach an acquaintance of yours in a shopping mall and present the suggestion that they are being indignant with their body because they are insecure with themselves. You'd not do such a thing because you would expect a fierce or unproductive response. Why would this be different at an online forum?

It is not fair to use members as examples in this way simply because it appears convenient.

The way that women portray themselves seems to be an issue complex enough for you that you felt the need to initiate a thread devoted to it's discussion. This serves as a probable indicator that many of the conclusions you've made about women and the motives behind their conduct are pervaded by your own views and conditioning on the matter.

Frog's legs being visible in her avatar is not an inherently inappropriate action. If it were an inherently inappropriate action, everyone would agree that it was so. The same would be true if it were assumed that it were an inherently delightful action. Everyone would agree that it was delightful. As we can observe in this thread, there are many differing views on the matter. Each of us have differing views on the avatar because we are each approaching it's appearance from differing mental dispositions.

Understanding this, it follows that rather than scrutinizing Frog's demeanor for insight into this issue, it would be more productive for you to examine your own self.

Very rarely do I give personal advice on this forum. It feels strange to use the words "you" and "your"! I apologize if I appeared invasive.


--------------------


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Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2273875 - 01/26/04 05:05 AM (20 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
It's okay, nubious.  I already talked to my guru about it.  He told me that you specifically started this thread to provoke me into responding so that you could attack me. 

I'm not offended, and I'm not insecure.  But ("Being proud is ok, just try not to choke") you just might be an asshole!  :grin:




Ya know..  you've helped me realise something, and you can relate this back to your guru if you want...  They're right - in retrospect I did start this thread to provoke you, and I think I know why;  First, I must apologize..  I've had a rough week..  My girlfriend (whome I'm moving in with) left on Saturday to BC, 5 hours from here. I'm not going to get to see her for two months, and I'm pretty down about that..  we haven't been apart for more than a week in over 6 months :frown:. On top of that, my mom (43, 3 kids, doesn't have it all together, you remember...) called me on friday night (last night with gurlie) a complete wreck, with news that my great grandma passed away.  After listening to her cry for like 20 minutes, she suddenly turned it around saying she needed a favour - for me to tell my dad (divorced 10 years, quite miserable story actually..  involves many broken telephones) to tell maintenance enforcement that he had received some receipts regarding my little brothers daycare or some shit.. 

I'm bitter, and quite possibly feeling sorry for myself with my recent loss.  Even though it's temporary, (2 months), I have to prepare for a move which is going to completely change my life and I have to do it without my best friend.  I'm at a serious turning point, maybe even an early quarter-life-crisis? (Pisces, year of the Dog)  I'm going to move out with the girlfriend, who'm I love dearly, but am now faced with 2 months of seperation (from)...  I'm leaving a good job for an economy with not much to offer in my industry, but with several +'s balancing that issue (it's kind of a long story), leaving 2 brothers, a mother, other family, and 11 years worth of friends. It's something one puts some serious thought into. Especially when you've only been with the girl for 6 months!
There's something about this girl that just feels right. I don't know how else to explain it. I know, I know..  it's typical early-adulthood drama similar to an afterschool special or Degrassi High, but that kind of experience brings a lesson.
That lesson cannot be fully understood (on a spiritual level) other than by the person experiencing it, and as such, that person must ultimately confront that alone. When other factors play into the situation with timing antonymous of a fairy tale, things can get a little stressfull.
This all relates to you, Frog, in that I've lost something I'm both emotionally and primaly attached to.  I saw your legs, I was subconciously angered by the fact that I now have to play twister by myself, and I (once again mention subconciously) saw an opportunity to vent that anger.


I apologize, and I thank you for helping me confront this issue, which you quite truthfully have pointed out, has caused me to behaviour quite assholishly.


P.S.  Does your guru have MSN?  :biggrin:


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2273940 - 01/26/04 05:56 AM (20 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

nubious said:

P.S.  Does your guru have MSN?  :biggrin:




Hey yea Froggy, I wanna have your Guru on speed-dial as well! :laugh: :wink:


--------------------
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OfflineFrog
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2274138 - 01/26/04 08:47 AM (20 years, 6 days ago)

Not many people have the maturity to look at themselves and see what's going on underneath, or apologize for behaviors. You're pretty cool, nubious.

But I have to apologize, too. It was obvious something was going on for you, and instead of just letting it be your issue, I called you an asshole, and I apologize for that. For the last 24 hours, I've actually been thinking about editing that part out, but I'll leave it in and just apologize here.

I've also been thinking about the issue your raised, in a more honest way. Why was I provoked? If I'm so comfortable with my picture up there, why did I feel provoked by your attack?

Truth is, one day I just got an urge to put the first picture I had there, the one with me in the black slip thing. I was afraid people would think I was flaunting myself or whatever, and I'm usually kind of insecure about being attacked, but then I thought that this is the shroomery, and I decided "fuck it", just put it up, and see what happens. The guy in Texas had taken the picture the night before I was supposed to leave, a couple of months ago.

Well, no one said anything negative, it seemed to be okay, so I left it. Then, I posted the current picture in the Pub, on the thread where it said "post your pics here" or something like that. I posted that with a few of my kids. Skorpivo said if I posted this current pic as my avatar, I would win more arguments, so in fun again, I posted this pic as my avatar.

I talked to my guru about the pic. He said it is provocative. I said "so what?" He said people are going to be provoked into thinking that I think I'm hot. I said "so what?" again. He said it's other people's insecurities, and if I want to post pics of me, I should do so regardless of other's opinions.

Phluck touched on it in his thread, but why is it, when someone dresses in a certain way, they get criticized for thinking they're hot? Or whatever? I think MM said that he doesn't talk to women who overdress. Why not? Maybe it's a person who loves to dress like that and feels good dressing like that, but maybe she's also a good person inside?

I've been thinking of taking my pic down, but then I thought that if someone has a problem with my pic, that's their problem, right? I like my pic. So I should leave it up, right?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2274208 - 01/26/04 09:19 AM (20 years, 6 days ago)

*Swami whistles while whipping up a nice bearnaise sauce*


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2274224 - 01/26/04 09:27 AM (20 years, 6 days ago)

If you dont love yourself in a certain aspect, you won't love it in others.

It's often the propensity to see ourselves in the subject that causes us to exert negative emotion and dislikes towards the person. Because we see a part of ourselves that we WISH we could be but can't be because you're afraid of disproval. So then you invert your depression towards yourself which then becomes anger.

If you're open minded and non-judgmental to yourself, then you will also be to other people at least in all the areas and aspects that you extend the same courtesy to in yourself.

People's dislikes, and negative attitudes and opinions are REFLECTIONS from within themselves.

Wait what was I saying? Oh yea..nevermind.


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2274267 - 01/26/04 09:43 AM (20 years, 6 days ago)

Very well said, Skorpivo!

And if I'm insecure, I will respond by being defensive.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2274378 - 01/26/04 10:22 AM (20 years, 6 days ago)

What a wonderful progression this thread has followed.  In the way we've seen here, many of our problems can be solved without harm.  :heart:  :thumbup:


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2274832 - 01/26/04 01:55 PM (20 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

I've been thinking of taking my pic down, but then I thought that if someone has a problem with my pic, that's their problem, right? I like my pic. So I should leave it up, right?




Fuck if people have a problem with your pic.. it's a 32 x 32 piece of digital art.. as long as it's not goatse I don't see why you should be concerned with how people view your self-representation - be it your own picture or not.

Thanks for the e-mail Froggie.. I'll drop him a line sometime.


--------------------
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2274944 - 01/26/04 02:37 PM (20 years, 6 days ago)

So are we done discussing girls who flaunt and idolize themselves???

:grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2275567 - 01/26/04 06:23 PM (20 years, 6 days ago)

Hot dang there's an lot of complaining going on!!


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: ]
    #2276646 - 01/27/04 03:08 AM (20 years, 5 days ago)

As stated above, this thread was never really about girls who flaunt themselves.. it was just a subconciouss outburts brought forth on the waves of negativity. I suppose we're done, unless anyone else has anything they'd like to add...


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: nubious]
    #2277274 - 01/27/04 10:29 AM (20 years, 5 days ago)

I dunno. I think it was a good topic. And it gave you insight into you and gave me insight into me.

But the issue itself...girls that dress in a sexy manner, or that do things like I did and post a picture of themselves showing their legs, things like that. Are girls who do that "insecure"?

It's interesting to me, but if it's to be dropped, so be it.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2277994 - 01/27/04 02:56 PM (20 years, 5 days ago)

  I think Fireworks God's first post really does  say it all.  I'm going to say "I've known girls who flaunt themselves and have been charming and brilliant, and I've known girls who flaunt themselves and are twits.  Do girls idolize themselves?  Some maybe.  I know I idolize women

:loveeyes:"  anyways.  And admire how well everyone resolved their issues.  What a productive thread!


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Edited by Panoramix (01/27/04 02:58 PM)


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2278789 - 01/27/04 07:11 PM (20 years, 5 days ago)

I wish everyone would use their pictures as their avatars. I like seeing what people look like.

yea, that's me, 100% ape. btw, I'm single and looking for women who flaunt their hairy backs.


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Ped]
    #2279364 - 01/27/04 10:48 PM (20 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
We judge others because we are incapable, or find tremendous aversion to judging ourselves.  Those of us who feel the need to demonstrate beauty, sex appeal or importance often have the view that they themselves are being continuously judged by others.  Such a view is dependent upon the mental disposition of the viewer.  If we have a habitually judgemental mind, we will gradually begin to assume that others are the same way, making assessments of us moment by moment.

This delusion becomes a form of paranoia that manifests in a number of ways.  It can be a significant shyness, a deeply cynical or confrontational attitude toward others, an excessive exuberance toward others, or a showy demeanor.

But we should be careful not to categorize anyone this way.  An obviously showy attitude or alluring dress is equally likely to arise from a hunger for attention, or ego-validation.  Ego-validation might be sought because the individual was blessed at birth with a weakened ego that is not as powerful at asserting itself over the individual.  Such beings are closer to Buddhahood than we, and should be considered our precious teachers!    :grin:  :heart:




they'll either outgrow this invested self-image or not at all.  natural to do what they do.  without proper guidance, they wouldn't know any better that what they are doing is about not empowering themselves. even with proper guidance, some still won't understand it.  its too much mental agility for them.  I know some girls like that.  I had to break down my language to simplistic form so she could grasp some of the psychology.  I had my limits. Explaining successfully complex psychology to a girl who thinks in hello kitty or likes doing "booty" calls just doesn't happen.

hehe

btw - u meen ego iz self-governing will-POWAAAAA! Git it right misterrr PED-man.


:smirk:


Edited by Keyannki (01/27/04 10:52 PM)


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Keyannki]
    #2279390 - 01/27/04 10:57 PM (20 years, 4 days ago)

Thanks for highlighting that excerpt, keyannki.

Ped, you said:

Quote:

But we should be careful not to categorize anyone this way. An obviously showy attitude or alluring dress is equally likely to arise from a hunger for attention, or ego-validation. Ego-validation might be sought because the individual was blessed at birth with a weakened ego that is not as powerful at asserting itself over the individual. Such beings are closer to Buddhahood than we, and should be considered our precious teachers!




It would seem like one who has a weakened ego would not be a good teacher. I am probably not understanding what you mean by "weakened ego". A strong ego would, to me, mean that one is strong enough in themselves to rise above attacks without feeling the need to respond in kind, and to not need validation, therefore not needing to dress in any way, or act in any way, to seek the approval of others.


What do you mean? What is a "weakened ego" and how is it a "good teacher"?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2279516 - 01/27/04 11:53 PM (20 years, 4 days ago)

Thank you for your question. This point does need some clarification.

By "ego", I simply mean the sense of a unique and seperate self.

The strength to rise above personal transgression is a sort of divine confidence and can actually be attributed to a very softened ego. It requires a certain degree of selflessness to transcend the impulse to respond angrily when someone insults us. Many people can be born with such a soft ego, but without proper wisdom can find themselves engaging in harmful self-indulgence and attention seeking. A soft ego is threatening to the continuity of our experience, because we believe habitually that our experience is filled with boundries and distinctions. A soft ego is much more conducive to the experience of interconnectedness. If we have a soft-ego but are continuously informed by our experiences that all things are rigid and seperate, we will have an uncomfortable existence. Sometimes I speculate that this may be why people like Beethoven and John F. Nash have lead such tragic lives.

As human beings, part of our experience is the sense of an independent and totally seperate "self" or "ego" experiencing the world as though the objects in it were "waiting" for us to encounter them. The stronger this sense of seperate-self, the stronger and more spontaneously we grasp on to it as real, and the more divided our world appears to be. In Buddhism, this is called "self-grasping." If we grasp at our self-sense as being totally detached -- and all living beings do -- we develop as consequence another habit called "self-cherishing." Self-cherishing is when we assign priority to ourselves over that of others. If we have strong self-cherishing, we will respond violently when we someone insulting appears to us. Self-cherising is a deluded pride, and is the direct opponent of the gracefullness that you cited as an option in situations in which somebody has offended us.

In this context, the ability to remain peaceful when somebody has harmed us is an example of a "weakened" ego. "Weakened" was a poor choice of words on my part. A better choice would have been "softened." As you implied, we can discover that a great deal of inner stregnth can be found through softening the ego in conjunction with wisdom. If naturally inclined, such a person can serve as an excellent example of the way to inner peace, so long as we are able to relate to them in that way. If we are able, then they can be considered our teacher.


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Ped]
    #2279600 - 01/28/04 12:39 AM (20 years, 4 days ago)

I think I understand now why you used the term "weakened ego". In our society, if you don't respond, in kind, to an attack, you would be considered weak.

But according to your recent post, if you don't respond, well, it could be "weak" according to society's standards, or you could have a "soft ego" according to your definitions.

What a conundrum. How to get along with people? Hmmm.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Ped]
    #2279700 - 01/28/04 01:34 AM (20 years, 4 days ago)

you don't notice the apologetic contradiction of your own passing judgments? 

self-attention:  all thoughtforms and desires - deluded or not - leads to learning the way, the challenge, or just being.  Just being. It is their choice. their free-will. 

some beings choose to experience what you perceive as undesirable and unnecessary.  Instead of light, they would choose the dark, t he forbidden, and the black. why? free-will. To experience. to be evolve. to know the difference and shades of light and dark. that an good angels can be a royal pain and fallen ones can be just as compassionate.


your meaning of self-cherishing is about some deep issues still unresolved. however, nothing is wrong with self-cherishing.  "I wub mahself berry much" is the saying of my hello kitty friend. :laugh: I tend to agree. doing anything less would be self-renouncing.

Defending is fine to whatever degree.  it is the perogative of the defender.


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2279727 - 01/28/04 01:58 AM (20 years, 4 days ago)

The best way to relate to people is to stop relating to their negative attributes. The negative attributes of a person are those that cause them or others to become unhappy. If we do not relate to those attributes, we provide room for that karma to exhaust itself, while simultaneously offering an example of a healthier way of conduct. If, to the best of our ability, we try to overlook the appearance of a person's negative attributes, and pay close attention to the positive attributes of a person, we can discourage the continuation of negative attributes and encourage the continuation of positive ones.

For example, if someone is rude to us, we can remind ourselves that they may have a family to whom they are very kind and supportive. By relating to the appearance of a loving person with hopes and aspirations just like ourselves, we can stop relating to the appearance of a rude individual. This pacifies the situation, and is a helpful way of interacting with others.

I feel it is important to include a reminder that if we approach people this way thinking that it's within our power to repair them, we are affected by deluded pride. If we approach others with a mind that assumes it can mould them into better people, we are assuming that there is a gap between us and them, that we are correct and they are erred. We are approaching the situation while abiding within a number of delusions that sabotage our position and cause all of our actions to be destructive.

>> In our society, if you don't respond, in kind, to an attack, you would be considered weak.

This is an interesting observation, and I tend to agree. Responding with kindness in response to aggression can -- and often is -- considered a sign of weakness. Our society, seemingly more than any other, cherishes the belief that the response to aggression should be further aggression. We can see this with the response to 9/11. On the part of many individuals, and their government, an enormous degree of anger and vengence is observed.

If we look closely, though, we can see that meeting an aggressor with kindness helps us maintain peace of mind, and can even pacify the aggressor. What greater strength is there than this?

"A great man is victorious in many battles, but a brave hero is victorious over his own self." -- Lao Tzu


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Keyannki]
    #2279757 - 01/28/04 02:30 AM (20 years, 4 days ago)

>> self-attention: all thoughtforms and desires - deluded or not - leads to learning the way, the challenge, or just being. Just being. It is their choice. their free-will.

No disagreements.


>> some beings choose to experience what you perceive as undesirable and unnecessary.

If that is their wish.


>> Instead of light, they would choose the dark, t he forbidden, and the black. why? free-will.

The path that I am teaching is one that operates to liberate individuals from suffering. Before it can function in this way, the individual must be open the idea that suffering can be ended, and must be able to consider the applicability of what is taught. If these two conditions do not exist, then the path will not function for that person. This is not a crime. It is understood by everyone that all beings seek happiness, and not to encounter problems and adversity. If in seeking happiness people choose the dark, the black -- whatever that means to you -- that is equally as understandable and acceptable. If that path functions to bring lasting happiness for that individual, then that is cause to rejoice. If it does not, then we can hope it provided many lessons which point in the proper direction for the happiness and freedom of that individual. Hopefully, all of this can transpire over just one life-time.


>> your meaning of self-cherishing is about some deep issues still unresolved. however, nothing is wrong with self-cherishing. "I wub mahself berry much" is the saying of my hello kitty friend. I tend to agree. doing anything less would be self-renouncing.

There is a difference between cherishing one's self in a helpful manner and cherishing one's self in an unhelpful manner. A helpful means of cherishing ourself is to encourage the traits in us that function to bring us lasting happiness. An unhelpful manner is to cherish one's self as supreme over others. Cherishing one's self in this way functions to create suffering in others, and in ourselves consequently.

These are ways of being that function very smoothly for countless individuals.


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Keyannki]
    #2280509 - 01/28/04 11:01 AM (20 years, 4 days ago)

"However, there is nothing wrong with self-cherishing.  'I wub mahself berry much' is the saying of my Hello Kitty friend.  I tend to agree.  Doing anything less would be self-renouncing."

There's self-cherishing and then there's self-cherishing.  I think from the context of the thread the self-cherishing Ped was talking about was of a variety that he thought unhealthy or unhelpful.  Who is he to say he knows what is in the best interest of others with free-will?  Well, who are you to say he doesn't know?  Are you Ped, Keyannki?  Which reminds me of a Chuang-tse parable

  Chuang-tse and some bloke were walking over a bridge that spanned a pond at a monestary.  Chuang-tse said to bloke-lad "Ah, how it pleases me to see the fish enjoying themselves swimming around this fine morning!"  Buddy-fella replied "But you are not a fish!  How can you know they are enjoying themselves?"  Chuang-tse looked at Feller-guy and said "But you are not me.  How do you know that I do not know that the fish are enjoying themselves?" 

"Instead of light, they would choose the dark, the forbidden and the black.  Why?"
Well, as someone who's done just that and am attempting, in living my life, to act through yin (AKA the dark, the passive, the receptive, the female, the black) I can tell you it's a good time.  Not everyone associates light with good and black with EVIL (ooo!  spooky spooky!).  If you ask me creativity and action are more destructive forces than receptivity and passivity.  The point being relax.  Go to it.  When you gotta get through it.

As for how to get along with people, Frog, you don't seem to have any problems.  You're one of the friendliest people in S&P.  Why is that?  Could it be just another result from you being a GIRL who FLAUNTS HERSELF?!!!  Nah, I think it's 'cause you're nice.  But I do get two bonus points for relating it back to the topic!  Hurray!!! :thumbup: :thumbup:

And I'd say I prefer weak ego to soft ego, just for aesthetics...


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Panoramix]
    #2280990 - 01/28/04 01:54 PM (20 years, 4 days ago)

Thank you, Panoramix. But why did you say "And I'd say I prefer weak ego to soft ego, just for aesthetics... "?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2281057 - 01/28/04 02:13 PM (20 years, 4 days ago)

I just find the concept of a weak ego more telling for me than the soft ego thing.  Personal preference, really.  Although 'soft' brings to mind flexibility, images of sapling bending, submitting under a strong wind and thusly avoiding harm or damage.  But, I dunno, weak sounds more dramatic.

:smirk: :smirk: :smirk:

Basically there's no good reason.


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Panoramix]
    #2281268 - 01/28/04 03:03 PM (20 years, 4 days ago)

lol!

Well, since you have no good reason, I'm sticking with Ped's version of "soft" ego.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2288816 - 01/31/04 01:12 AM (20 years, 1 day ago)

Ped

Excellent points.  :smile:

There is a difference between cherishing one's self in a helpful manner and cherishing one's self in an unhelpful manner. A helpful means of cherishing ourself is to encourage the traits in us that function to bring us lasting happiness. --> An unhelpful manner is to cherish one's self as supreme over others. Cherishing one's self in this way functions to create suffering in others, and in ourselves consequently.<--


the latter part interests me. I remember this psychic told me about this lady who has the power to heal but felt she was very egocentric.  Calling herself, "I am a supreme spiritual being."

Who knows why she is the way she is.  If you're familar with past life theory, then you should consider sometimes the extreme of lacking self-cherishing [self-sacrificing] leads to the other extreme. 

Suffering: so you mean its bad?  all it should become extinct here in this world?


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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Keyannki]
    #2289672 - 01/31/04 01:11 PM (20 years, 1 day ago)

Hmm.  I'm not particularly familiar with past-life theory, how can self-sacrifice lead to self-cherishing?  We're talking about the less healthy self-cherishment, right? 

As for the elimination of suffering:  I feel that suffering is not only inevitable, but necessary in order to give greater depth to our other experiences.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for minimizing suffering.  I tend to avoid suffering like the plague, but occaisonally there's nothing for it and one must just grit one's teeth and suck it up, buttercup.  Say everyone were to get together and collectively decide that we all hate the colour purple so we magically alter the laws of physics so that nothing can reflect purple
light.  We also change the sun so that it doesn't produce em radiation in the purple waveband-thingie.  Hurray, we've eliminated purple!  But before long living in a purple-free world, we start finding mauve and fuscia look pretty purple too...  Where does it END?!??!!! :nonono:

My point is that being as everything is a gradient between two other things, is greyscale, we can't really end the existance of anything.  Suffering'll exist as a concept even if extreme discomfort (or however we want to define suffering) is eliminated as a physical reality.  And if the concept exists then people can convince themselves that they are enduring suffering.  And minds intent on tormenting themselves will always be able to.  And BANG! suffering's made its grand re-entrance into the world.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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