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OfflineFrog
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Ped]
    #2279600 - 01/28/04 12:39 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

I think I understand now why you used the term "weakened ego". In our society, if you don't respond, in kind, to an attack, you would be considered weak.

But according to your recent post, if you don't respond, well, it could be "weak" according to society's standards, or you could have a "soft ego" according to your definitions.

What a conundrum. How to get along with people? Hmmm.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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InvisibleKeyannki
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Ped]
    #2279700 - 01/28/04 01:34 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

you don't notice the apologetic contradiction of your own passing judgments? 

self-attention:  all thoughtforms and desires - deluded or not - leads to learning the way, the challenge, or just being.  Just being. It is their choice. their free-will. 

some beings choose to experience what you perceive as undesirable and unnecessary.  Instead of light, they would choose the dark, t he forbidden, and the black. why? free-will. To experience. to be evolve. to know the difference and shades of light and dark. that an good angels can be a royal pain and fallen ones can be just as compassionate.


your meaning of self-cherishing is about some deep issues still unresolved. however, nothing is wrong with self-cherishing.  "I wub mahself berry much" is the saying of my hello kitty friend. :laugh: I tend to agree. doing anything less would be self-renouncing.

Defending is fine to whatever degree.  it is the perogative of the defender.

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OfflinePed
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2279727 - 01/28/04 01:58 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

The best way to relate to people is to stop relating to their negative attributes. The negative attributes of a person are those that cause them or others to become unhappy. If we do not relate to those attributes, we provide room for that karma to exhaust itself, while simultaneously offering an example of a healthier way of conduct. If, to the best of our ability, we try to overlook the appearance of a person's negative attributes, and pay close attention to the positive attributes of a person, we can discourage the continuation of negative attributes and encourage the continuation of positive ones.

For example, if someone is rude to us, we can remind ourselves that they may have a family to whom they are very kind and supportive. By relating to the appearance of a loving person with hopes and aspirations just like ourselves, we can stop relating to the appearance of a rude individual. This pacifies the situation, and is a helpful way of interacting with others.

I feel it is important to include a reminder that if we approach people this way thinking that it's within our power to repair them, we are affected by deluded pride. If we approach others with a mind that assumes it can mould them into better people, we are assuming that there is a gap between us and them, that we are correct and they are erred. We are approaching the situation while abiding within a number of delusions that sabotage our position and cause all of our actions to be destructive.

>> In our society, if you don't respond, in kind, to an attack, you would be considered weak.

This is an interesting observation, and I tend to agree. Responding with kindness in response to aggression can -- and often is -- considered a sign of weakness. Our society, seemingly more than any other, cherishes the belief that the response to aggression should be further aggression. We can see this with the response to 9/11. On the part of many individuals, and their government, an enormous degree of anger and vengence is observed.

If we look closely, though, we can see that meeting an aggressor with kindness helps us maintain peace of mind, and can even pacify the aggressor. What greater strength is there than this?

"A great man is victorious in many battles, but a brave hero is victorious over his own self." -- Lao Tzu


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OfflinePed
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Keyannki]
    #2279757 - 01/28/04 02:30 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

>> self-attention: all thoughtforms and desires - deluded or not - leads to learning the way, the challenge, or just being. Just being. It is their choice. their free-will.

No disagreements.


>> some beings choose to experience what you perceive as undesirable and unnecessary.

If that is their wish.


>> Instead of light, they would choose the dark, t he forbidden, and the black. why? free-will.

The path that I am teaching is one that operates to liberate individuals from suffering. Before it can function in this way, the individual must be open the idea that suffering can be ended, and must be able to consider the applicability of what is taught. If these two conditions do not exist, then the path will not function for that person. This is not a crime. It is understood by everyone that all beings seek happiness, and not to encounter problems and adversity. If in seeking happiness people choose the dark, the black -- whatever that means to you -- that is equally as understandable and acceptable. If that path functions to bring lasting happiness for that individual, then that is cause to rejoice. If it does not, then we can hope it provided many lessons which point in the proper direction for the happiness and freedom of that individual. Hopefully, all of this can transpire over just one life-time.


>> your meaning of self-cherishing is about some deep issues still unresolved. however, nothing is wrong with self-cherishing. "I wub mahself berry much" is the saying of my hello kitty friend. I tend to agree. doing anything less would be self-renouncing.

There is a difference between cherishing one's self in a helpful manner and cherishing one's self in an unhelpful manner. A helpful means of cherishing ourself is to encourage the traits in us that function to bring us lasting happiness. An unhelpful manner is to cherish one's self as supreme over others. Cherishing one's self in this way functions to create suffering in others, and in ourselves consequently.

These are ways of being that function very smoothly for countless individuals.


--------------------


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Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Keyannki]
    #2280509 - 01/28/04 11:01 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

"However, there is nothing wrong with self-cherishing.  'I wub mahself berry much' is the saying of my Hello Kitty friend.  I tend to agree.  Doing anything less would be self-renouncing."

There's self-cherishing and then there's self-cherishing.  I think from the context of the thread the self-cherishing Ped was talking about was of a variety that he thought unhealthy or unhelpful.  Who is he to say he knows what is in the best interest of others with free-will?  Well, who are you to say he doesn't know?  Are you Ped, Keyannki?  Which reminds me of a Chuang-tse parable

  Chuang-tse and some bloke were walking over a bridge that spanned a pond at a monestary.  Chuang-tse said to bloke-lad "Ah, how it pleases me to see the fish enjoying themselves swimming around this fine morning!"  Buddy-fella replied "But you are not a fish!  How can you know they are enjoying themselves?"  Chuang-tse looked at Feller-guy and said "But you are not me.  How do you know that I do not know that the fish are enjoying themselves?" 

"Instead of light, they would choose the dark, the forbidden and the black.  Why?"
Well, as someone who's done just that and am attempting, in living my life, to act through yin (AKA the dark, the passive, the receptive, the female, the black) I can tell you it's a good time.  Not everyone associates light with good and black with EVIL (ooo!  spooky spooky!).  If you ask me creativity and action are more destructive forces than receptivity and passivity.  The point being relax.  Go to it.  When you gotta get through it.

As for how to get along with people, Frog, you don't seem to have any problems.  You're one of the friendliest people in S&P.  Why is that?  Could it be just another result from you being a GIRL who FLAUNTS HERSELF?!!!  Nah, I think it's 'cause you're nice.  But I do get two bonus points for relating it back to the topic!  Hurray!!! :thumbup: :thumbup:

And I'd say I prefer weak ego to soft ego, just for aesthetics...


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Don't worry, I'm wrong.

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OfflineFrog
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Panoramix]
    #2280990 - 01/28/04 01:54 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you, Panoramix. But why did you say "And I'd say I prefer weak ego to soft ego, just for aesthetics... "?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2281057 - 01/28/04 02:13 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

I just find the concept of a weak ego more telling for me than the soft ego thing.  Personal preference, really.  Although 'soft' brings to mind flexibility, images of sapling bending, submitting under a strong wind and thusly avoiding harm or damage.  But, I dunno, weak sounds more dramatic.

:smirk: :smirk: :smirk:

Basically there's no good reason.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Panoramix]
    #2281268 - 01/28/04 03:03 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

lol!

Well, since you have no good reason, I'm sticking with Ped's version of "soft" ego.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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InvisibleKeyannki
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Frog]
    #2288816 - 01/31/04 01:12 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Ped

Excellent points.  :smile:

There is a difference between cherishing one's self in a helpful manner and cherishing one's self in an unhelpful manner. A helpful means of cherishing ourself is to encourage the traits in us that function to bring us lasting happiness. --> An unhelpful manner is to cherish one's self as supreme over others. Cherishing one's self in this way functions to create suffering in others, and in ourselves consequently.<--


the latter part interests me. I remember this psychic told me about this lady who has the power to heal but felt she was very egocentric.  Calling herself, "I am a supreme spiritual being."

Who knows why she is the way she is.  If you're familar with past life theory, then you should consider sometimes the extreme of lacking self-cherishing [self-sacrificing] leads to the other extreme. 

Suffering: so you mean its bad?  all it should become extinct here in this world?

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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Do girls flaunt and idolize themselves? [Re: Keyannki]
    #2289672 - 01/31/04 01:11 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm.  I'm not particularly familiar with past-life theory, how can self-sacrifice lead to self-cherishing?  We're talking about the less healthy self-cherishment, right? 

As for the elimination of suffering:  I feel that suffering is not only inevitable, but necessary in order to give greater depth to our other experiences.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for minimizing suffering.  I tend to avoid suffering like the plague, but occaisonally there's nothing for it and one must just grit one's teeth and suck it up, buttercup.  Say everyone were to get together and collectively decide that we all hate the colour purple so we magically alter the laws of physics so that nothing can reflect purple
light.  We also change the sun so that it doesn't produce em radiation in the purple waveband-thingie.  Hurray, we've eliminated purple!  But before long living in a purple-free world, we start finding mauve and fuscia look pretty purple too...  Where does it END?!??!!! :nonono:

My point is that being as everything is a gradient between two other things, is greyscale, we can't really end the existance of anything.  Suffering'll exist as a concept even if extreme discomfort (or however we want to define suffering) is eliminated as a physical reality.  And if the concept exists then people can convince themselves that they are enduring suffering.  And minds intent on tormenting themselves will always be able to.  And BANG! suffering's made its grand re-entrance into the world.


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