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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Evangelism
    #2263941 - 01/22/04 10:26 PM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Is this the ultimate ego trip?

How many of these people have actually touched the "Ground of Being"? Can they now perform miracles? Are there lives a shining example of the divine? Have they dropped ALL judgement?

Or have they merely read some scriptures and convinced themselves that they have superior knowledge than you?

Heal my back my evangelical brother or sister and I will become a convert. Demonstrate the new life that you have found and I will listen. Parrot a line from a book and I will turn my away from you.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2263983 - 01/22/04 10:35 PM (18 years, 3 days ago)

I miss Jimmy Swaggert his crying always offered tempory releif from the troubles of the day.

Is this the ultimate ego trip?

I think Swaggerts was, but he was so good at wailing it brought a tear to my eye.


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Evangelism [Re: falcon]
    #2264170 - 01/22/04 11:18 PM (18 years, 3 days ago)

I think "Swaggart" would be a good band name.




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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish



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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Evangelism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2264183 - 01/22/04 11:20 PM (18 years, 3 days ago)

did i mention he could sing


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2264218 - 01/22/04 11:31 PM (18 years, 3 days ago)

"Praise the lord!!! Can I get an Amen? Praise the Lord. Lordy lordy lord"

hey, i should scan this  advertisement I got for this church in our area. Yes, you got it. Church has now gone to junk mail. My mom was going on about it for like 15 minutes... I dont blame her one bit :wink: .

There is this picture of leave it to beaver, and how the new world is geared for new kids, and how they should come and hang out and chill with god while playing video games and learning about the bible. Its everyones favorite family fun! 

:noway:  o well.


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What?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2264287 - 01/22/04 11:54 PM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Jerry Faldwell. Need I say more?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2264303 - 01/22/04 11:59 PM (18 years, 3 days ago)

I like the ones that tell you that you are going to hell for the things you do. 

I like the ones that go around thumping the bible and then say and do things that are not "Christian". 

One of my "Christian" sisters told one of my other "going to hell" sisters to fuck off and die.  LOL!!! 

Then, a few minutes later, the Christian called the sinner back and said, "I don't want you to die, but you can fuck off!"  LOL!!!

She had sent me an email earlier that day talking about what a good Christian she was...

:grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
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Re: Evangelism [Re: Frog]
    #2264426 - 01/23/04 12:37 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Ever heard of Fred Phelps.  He preaches all over the country, but he's from a town that is really close to my hometown.  He spreads very loving messages like


"GOD hates fags!" :lol:


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
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OfflineFrog
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Re: Evangelism [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2264494 - 01/23/04 02:44 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

LOL!!! That's so loving!!! How Christian!!! What an example!!!


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinemanna_man
High onlife.....andcrack

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Vancouver
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Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2264591 - 01/23/04 03:12 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Yea, I've seen them on TV many times. There is this one guy in particular - kinda looks like Paul Riser - who really gets on my nerves.

You know the whole scenario; someone is brought up on stage, complaining of Chronic backpain, blindness, cancer, etc, then this guy touches them on the forehead, supposedly transfering this divine healing energy, and the person falls into the arms of someone waiting to catch them. " Ohhh, the lord has healed me!" ,they'll
proclaim.


Then later he's like: "if you'd like to invite the Lord into your life, buy my book for $29.95 plus S&H."


:smirk:


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: Evangelism [Re: manna_man]
    #2264675 - 01/23/04 03:44 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

My favourite is Peter Popoff. Has anyone seen this fuck? He's got a show on super late night and in between "healing" sessions they advertise "holy water" from somewhere in Russia that supposedly cured people who got radiation poisoning fronm Chernobyl. It comes in a little plastic packet and they are charging like $4 for about a tablespoon full. Capitalising on what's most likely a sprinkle of tap water, in the name of God. Isn't that just beautiful? :rolleyes:

Of course he also does faith healing, he screams at the devil to get out of them and for the light of God to enter them and heal them, then he pushes them over. Oh and of course he "knows" what thier affliction is because God (or his wife) tells him (possibly over a small earpiece, reading from cards everyone fills in at the door.) It's such a transparent scam and yet thousands of people fall for it. It's incredibly sad.


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Offlinemanna_man
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Re: Evangelism [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2264692 - 01/23/04 03:56 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

"My favourite is Peter Popoff. Has anyone seen this fuck?"

YES! That's the guy I'm thinking of. He's got black hair and sometimes is seen talking with his wife?

Yea, he definitely does not seem like a holy religious teacher.
More of a slimy insurance salesman.


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
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Re: Evangelism [Re: manna_man]
    #2264776 - 01/23/04 04:44 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

i posted a letter from Peter Popoff once, it was funny, search for it.

edit, I searcched for it.

LINK


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We have to answer our own prayers


Edited by trendal (01/23/04 09:21 AM)


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Evangelism [Re: recalcitrant]
    #2264848 - 01/23/04 05:31 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Holy Jebus. That letter is, well, there are no words to sufficiently describe how repulsive this man is.


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Anonymous

Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2265077 - 01/23/04 09:14 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

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Offlinejoeshitragpicker
Home Sweet Home

Registered: 10/17/02
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Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2265120 - 01/23/04 09:45 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

The cable here in Atlanta carries like 4 or 5 christian networks. Since I don't get comedy central, these are a great substitute.

The other day I got pissed though; this guy (Pat Roberts?) was on there begging for money and saying how you will recieve more of Gods love the more money you send, and quoting biblical verses that matched with his interpretation of "Gods message." So dismayed was I at this blatant disregard for the poor bastards that actually believe this bullshit, I called up the 1800 number and told off the old country lady that answered the phone. She quoted more bible verses and promptly hung up on me. :smile2:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2265136 - 01/23/04 09:57 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Never had a skeptic interrupt my dinner and come knocking on my door with a pamphlet nor accost me at the airport...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2265142 - 01/23/04 10:01 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Typical strawman and fallacy of the excluded middle.

Is it really? Doesn't Jesus speak of despising the luke warm (the exluded middle)? Are we not with him or against him?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2266584 - 01/23/04 07:24 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2266591 - 01/23/04 07:26 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Skeptics have murdered believers for their faith.



Examples? This is new to me.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Evangelism [Re: silversoul7]
    #2266634 - 01/23/04 07:46 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2266915 - 01/23/04 10:44 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:


Skeptics have murdered believers for their faith.





And believers have murdered nonbelievers for chosing a different path. IE: witch burning and the crusades. It goes both ways, and its bullshit wherever it's coming from.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2266925 - 01/23/04 10:50 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Once again, Jesus specifically states that Christians shall be known by their acts; by how they live their lives. Nowhere does he state anything about being measured by how many verses in the Bible they can memorize nor how good their salesmanship is.

Someone wants me to believe in the power of The Word yet cannot manifest in their own life. Why should I be convinced?

How many American Christians have shown love to our Islamic brothers? What happened to "Love your enemy?" Are Christ's words merely for ancient times? Just quaint sayings that almost no one lives by? What Churches fought against war?

Live it and I will believe. Doesn't get any simpler than that.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2266932 - 01/23/04 10:55 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

What Churches fought against war?



The Quakers and the Shakers.  I don't know about the Candle-stick makers, tho. :smirk:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2267580 - 01/24/04 05:26 AM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Once again, Jesus specifically states that Christians shall be known by their acts; by how they live their lives. Nowhere does he state anything about being measured by how many verses in the Bible they can memorize nor how good their salesmanship is.

Someone wants me to believe in the power of The Word yet cannot manifest in their own life. Why should I be convinced?

How many American Christians have shown love to our Islamic brothers? What happened to "Love your enemy?" Are Christ's words merely for ancient times? Just quaint sayings that almost no one lives by? What Churches fought against war?

Live it and I will believe. Doesn't get any simpler than that.




There's a middle ground here, I think.

Christians should evangelize, if they are cut out for it, meaning, can they "walk their talk". The rest should shut up and evidence Christianity by their actions.

All of us are sinners and subject to error. Those of us subject to erring should not evangelize.

All of us have a "job" to do in this life. Not all of us are cut out for evangelizing. The rest of us should lead by example, but not by mouthing off about being a "good Christian". My sister is a good example. You don't want to say "I'm a good Christian" and "Fuck off and die" in the same breath.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinejoeshitragpicker
Home Sweet Home

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Re: Evangelism [Re: Frog]
    #2267837 - 01/24/04 10:34 AM (18 years, 2 days ago)

The one thing that has always bothered me the most about Christianity (most religions, in fact) is that at the very foundation of what believers percieve to be the "truth" is that their interpretation of "IT" is right and others are just plain wrong.
I think it takes much maturity and common sense to understand that these separations, much like all language, are completely abstract.
Frog, you have called me, and every other ape-like organism on our rock and water ball a sinner, but yet you have no evidence to back this up. You point to an anceint book for your one and only spiritual inspiration, but how can you not understand that this is incredibly limiting, and that there are so many other perspectives out there waiting for you to understand and subjectively  experience them?
To me, it takes guts to be able to say "I don't know; Maybe all ollhis is beyond my comprehension, but its still OK." Do you understand how truly limiting it is to say "Oh, I've found God with this interpretation!" - this is obviously based on ego-driven fear; fear of being out of control perhaps?

So, maybe you could do me a favor and repeat this phrase to yourself as many times as necessary, because it is one of the few things that can me uttered with certainty: "I have no answers because language is an abstraction, and reality is not." wash, rinse, repeat :heart:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Evangelism [Re: joeshitragpicker]
    #2268724 - 01/24/04 06:18 PM (18 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

joeshitragpicker said:
Frog, you have called me, and every other ape-like organism on our rock and water ball a sinner, but yet you have no evidence to back this up. You point to an anceint book for your one and only spiritual inspiration, but how can you not understand that this is incredibly limiting, and that there are so many other perspectives out there waiting for you to understand and subjectively  experience them?
To me, it takes guts to be able to say "I don't know; Maybe all ollhis is beyond my comprehension, but its still OK." Do you understand how truly limiting it is to say "Oh, I've found God with this interpretation!" - this is obviously based on ego-driven fear; fear of being out of control perhaps?

So, maybe you could do me a favor and repeat this phrase to yourself as many times as necessary, because it is one of the few things that can me uttered with certainty: "I have no answers because language is an abstraction, and reality is not." wash, rinse, repeat :heart:




Oh, so sorry, I didn't post all of my beliefs and disclaim, disclaim, disclaim.

Whatever I said elsewhere, here is how it should have been said:

I believe, based on the book that governs my belief system, that we are all sinners, no matter how hard we try to be good.  We were saved by Christ dying for our sins, which was the only way we could make it into heaven.

That being said, I also realize that the bible was the word of God, but interpreted by man, and therefore there may be mistakes in it, or may be it was incorrectly interpreted, or something. 

I also think that I don't know everything.  I realize that Jesus was absent from about 12 to 30, and who knows where he might have been evangelizing during that time, which could be why there are other religions.

So, I don't say anyone is going to hell for their beliefs, or because they don't believe the way I believe.  I am waiting until I am in heaven to see how it all works, because supposedly that's when we'll be able to have the answers to our questions. 

But in the meantime, I believe what the bible teaches, which is that you have to accept Christ as your savior to enter heaven, and so I do.  But no one else has to, and you may still go to heaven, because I'm not absolutely sure that I'm right. 

Is that better?  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Anonymous

Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2269215 - 01/24/04 09:48 PM (18 years, 1 day ago)

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2270718 - 01/25/04 06:49 AM (18 years, 1 day ago)

What happened to "proper interpretation"?

so when Jesus said love your enemy, what he REALLY meant to say is kill your enemy?
is that the "proper interpretation"? :nonono:


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Invisiblejpod
Stranger

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 107
Loc: DeeSee
Re: Evangelism [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2271100 - 01/25/04 10:55 AM (18 years, 1 day ago)

What started out by early Christians as a desire to spread their faith has mutated into the bastardized form of the religion so prominent in the world today. It is after all, a Biblical concept to "spread the good Word". Unfortunately throughout history there have been many who are too short sighted to see that you cannot force faith onto someone. In fact, the religion of Islam is probably just as perverted from its original message as Christianity because of the same reason; the attempt to sweep through and impose their beliefs onto others. For sure, within Christianity, an attempt to convert out of contempt is bound to fail from the start and is in fact antithetical to the message of love it seeks to spread.

Today's Christian evangelists may not seek out and kill those who do not convert, but at the root many of them are still misusing and abusing the message they claim to be spreading. There seems to be two categories which they fit into. The first are the ones who attempt to guilt or scare people into converting. These "fire and brimstone" preachers may or may not have the right intentions at heart but there is certainly a base misinterpretation of the idea. A basic examination reveals clearly that scaring people into a faith of love is an ill-concieved idea. The second category of evangelists are the ones who ask for money because "God will bless you" or some such message. This is of course based on the Biblical messages of tithing and helping those in need. However, closer examination of the group or minister and the fruits they are producing with the money seems to often reveal more selfish motives than they would have you believe. This is obviously not in the spirit of the message of the Bible. I really wish people would not take these kind of evangelists and use them as an example of a real Christian. They are certainly not true representatives of the Christian faith. There are some of us who really do "get it", you just won't see us running around screaming or begging for your money. Look beyond the surface, look deeper. As it says in Matthew 7:7, "...seek, and ye shall find".


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Anonymous

Re: Evangelism [Re: jpod]
    #2271252 - 01/25/04 12:30 PM (18 years, 23 hours ago)

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Evangelism [Re: jpod]
    #2272029 - 01/25/04 05:19 PM (18 years, 18 hours ago)

right. exactly
when Jesus said love your enemy, he couldn't have been clearer.

makes you wonder how some can people get it so wrong.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2272067 - 01/25/04 05:33 PM (18 years, 18 hours ago)

By your logic we shouldn't believe anything until we see someone else do it.
Now, now MM. If I wrote that statement you would tear it apart and rightly so. Your recent physical transformation was modeled a great deal on what you learned from [select] others. What is wrong with looking for role models for spiritual transformation?

How about because you researched the putative "truth" and found it to be correct.
That is another avenue. I find some parts of the Bible to be "true" and some ideas of Christ to be "true" and others I find to be false or unverifiable.

Islamic brothers? According to some interpretations of the Bible they are the spirit of the antichrist, bound and fit for hell.
Your personal and cultural distaste does NOT alter the "fact" that if one human was created by God then all are children of God and equal in his eyes.

What happened to "proper interpretation"?
I thought this statement was quite direct and did not need a lawyer and subclauses...

Your reasons for not believing all contain the smug assumption that you, and you alone, are the final arbiter of what it takes to be a Christian.
No, I and I alone (AS IS EVERYONE ELSE) the final arbiter of what I allow to become the centerpiece of my life. I find Christian arguments to be unconvincing just as you find the atheist standpoint to be unconvincing. True?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2272219 - 01/25/04 06:35 PM (18 years, 17 hours ago)

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
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Loc: there
Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2276003 - 01/26/04 11:36 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You thought wrong. It's nothing to be embarrassed about, assuming you are. Every single verse of the Bible has to be properly interpretated in context and that context is within the immediate scriptures surrounding it, the entire book that contained it, and the whole canon of scripture taken as a whole.

you're forgetting the first rule of biblical interpretation: a passage never loses it's pashat. it's nothing to be embarrassed about. many people throughout history have made the same mistake, interpreting the bible "in context"... of their own biases...


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Anonymous

Re: Evangelism [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2276891 - 01/27/04 08:57 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2277272 - 01/27/04 12:29 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Proper context is fine, but who decides that? If there were ONE objective "proper context", I doubt there would be a thousand religious branches from the one tree each claiming their interpretation is the closest to "The Truth".

There is a Biblical movie being advertised on TV by some Christian organization wherein they get an "expert" to proclaim that the movie is "highly accurate" as if anyone alive was there to know the details.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2277452 - 01/27/04 01:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
There is a Biblical movie being advertised on TV by some Christian organization wherein they get an "expert" to proclaim that the movie is "highly accurate" as if anyone alive was there to know the details.



Reincarnation?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2278891 - 01/27/04 09:38 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Pashat does not mean that scriptures are not interpreted within their proper context. The opposite of pashat would be allegorical or homiletical application of the text, Professor.

yes, there are specific passages in the bible which are meant to be translated metaphorically (though no one can agree on which parts), there are poems, psalms and parables which do not retain their meaning when taken out of context, I understand that. but let's look at this discussion in context shall we?

Swami: What happened to "Love your enemy?"

MM: What happened to "proper interpretation"?

Swami: I thought this statement was quite direct and did not need a lawyer and subclauses...

MM: You thought wrong. It's nothing to be embarrassed about, assuming you are. Every single verse of the Bible has to be properly interpretated in context and that context is within the immediate scriptures surrounding it, the entire book that contained it, and the whole canon of scripture taken as a whole.

to which I replied: you're forgetting the first rule of biblical interpretation: a passage never loses it's pashat.
and of course, I was referring to the passage quoted above. I'm sure you're aware of the context of that passage, the verses immediately surrounding it, and the gospel that it was written in. it's not something that requires "proper interpretation". it's meaning is quite clear.


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Anonymous

Re: Evangelism [Re: Swami]
    #2279524 - 01/28/04 01:56 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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Anonymous

Re: Evangelism [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2279540 - 01/28/04 02:03 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Evangelism [Re: ]
    #2279804 - 01/28/04 05:15 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

it's too bad you have to respond with yet another personal attack :frown:
I might have expected better from you in the past, but this is becoming all too typical...

1 Corinthians 13:4-5
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.  :heart:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Evangelism [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2279872 - 01/28/04 06:46 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Nice quote. We would all be better to follow that sage advice.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Evangelism [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2286561 - 01/30/04 10:18 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

it's too bad you have to respond with yet another personal attack I might have expected better from you in the past, but this is becoming all too typical...


If you don't bow down to him he feels his ego has been slighted and needs to make humourless personal attacks to feel secure in himself. It's the same old story.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Evangelism [Re: Xlea321]
    #2286709 - 01/30/04 11:45 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Ex-moderator status gives one special privilege to circumvent the S&P Forum rules without censure.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Evangelism [Re: Xlea321]
    #2286725 - 01/30/04 11:54 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I honestly don't know what it is I said that made him flip out like that and basically call me a fool. we had an honest difference of opinion in scriptural interpretation for chrissake. no need to take it personally


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