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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #22684370 - 12/21/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Not with that attitude.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22684376 - 12/21/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

If I had any control over it, it would have already happened.  Alas, I am but one man.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Enlil]
    #22684406 - 12/21/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Alright, I'm pretty high.

If there was a situation where society ceased to exist and individual freedom was maximized, you'd prefer that to what we have now?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22684415 - 12/21/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

At this point, probably.  It's close, however.  Twenty years ago, it'd be clearly in favor of society.  I suspect that in another twenty years, it'll be clearly in favor of collapse, although I'll be too old by then to survive.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22684422 - 12/21/15 07:39 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Hopefully one day WW3 breaks out, society collapses, nuclear winter begins, and we have all of our freedom back.




If WW3 breaks out, the lucky ones will be those who were killed in the initial attack.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22684551 - 12/21/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
In order to nominate Bernie you have to be a registered Democrat, and vote in the primary election at the beginning of next year.




Not so in all states. Here in Tennessee, they have open primaries in which anyone regardless of party can vote in the primaries. But you'd better believe I'll be voting in my states Dem primary this fall! Go, Bernie! :cheer:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Le_Canard]
    #22684581 - 12/21/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Le_Canard said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
In order to nominate Bernie you have to be a registered Democrat, and vote in the primary election at the beginning of next year.




Not so in all states. Here in Tennessee, they have open primaries in which anyone regardless of party can vote in the primaries. But you'd better believe I'll be voting in my states Dem primary this fall! Go, Bernie! :cheer:




I actually just looked it up. Most states don't require you to be registered as one or the other.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Enlil]
    #22684589 - 12/21/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
At this point, probably.  It's close, however.  Twenty years ago, it'd be clearly in favor of society.  I suspect that in another twenty years, it'll be clearly in favor of collapse, although I'll be too old by then to survive.




If society as we know it collapsed, the world would just devolve into a tribalistic warlord scenario, like Somalia. Tyranny would rule the day.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22684656 - 12/21/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Tyranny isn't a bad deal for the tyrant


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OfflineTipote
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #22684722 - 12/21/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

yeh man, tyrants need the freedom to be tyrants.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #22684745 - 12/21/15 09:02 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
yeh man, tyrants need the freedom to be tyrants.




:lmafo:

Quote:

Enlil said:
Tyranny isn't a bad deal for the tyrant




:carlinorgasm:

lmao


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Le_Canard]
    #22685188 - 12/21/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Le_Canard said:
Quote:

airclay said:
<snip>... a socialist that supports capitalism :facepalm:




Seems to me that a socialist who supports capitalism isn't really much of a socialist.





yeah man...that's the joke...


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22685448 - 12/22/15 12:49 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
The only thing on that list that comes remotely close to 'rights taken away' would be gun regulation, and I don't know of any headway that's been made in the arena. I think this is a real false equivalency.

The rest can just as easily argued to be rights secured via legislation. The right to maintaining air quality. Healthcare as a right. The right to a certain standard of living via mandatory wage minimums.



That's what lefties always say.  What they ignore is the freedom to contract, which minimum wage laws and health insurance regulation limit.



"Freedom to contract" is nothing more than freedom for wealthy business owners to take advantage of blue collar workers.  Less Government involvement always leads to a greater separation of wealth.  Sure, Government might take some chump change from the wealthy, but it gives an awful lot more freedom to the working class who are able to live on a 40 hour work week.

Health insurance regulation doesn't make you do ANYTHING with respect to your healthcare choices, except it gives you the freedom not to worry about not having coverage for pre-existing conditions, and the freedom not to worry about being able to afford health care.


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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (12/22/15 01:04 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22685822 - 12/22/15 06:55 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Sounds like more of the same "ends justify the means" reasoning that has been used for decades to slowly erode personal freedoms.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Enlil]
    #22686248 - 12/22/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

No, there are obvious power and income discrepencies in society which without protections for the most vulnerable, would leave to massive abuse.

Why would anyone want the freedom to work below a living wage?

I admire the emphasis you put on freedom all the time, Enlil, but absolute freedom is not absolute freedom for all, it hinders on those who don't have the power or resources to express that freedom.

I'm all for anarchistic moves towards decentralisation/autonomy and believe its possible but there would have to be prerequisites which are few and far between now, after thousands of years of social conditioning.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Tipote]
    #22686249 - 12/22/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
Why would anyone want the freedom to work below a living wage?




Lots of reasons.  What if I want the freedom to approach an employer with an offer of working for $1 an hour for a month to prove my worth to the company?  Maybe at that price, he'd give me a shot that he wouldn't otherwise give me.  Why should the government tell me that I am not free to do this?


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Enlil]
    #22686304 - 12/22/15 10:56 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Tipote said:
Why would anyone want the freedom to work below a living wage?




Lots of reasons.  What if I want the freedom to approach an employer with an offer of working for $1 an hour for a month to prove my worth to the company?  Maybe at that price, he'd give me a shot that he wouldn't otherwise give me.  Why should the government tell me that I am not free to do this?




It's called an internship.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Sounds like more of the same "ends justify the means" reasoning that has been used for decades to slowly erode personal freedoms.




Hmm, maybe it does.. sound like that... :wink:

The ends often do justify the means for many things. It was a lot of work to put a man on the moon, but the ends justified the means. A lot of people's rights to own slaves were stripped away during the civil war, but the ends justified the means. Lots of ends justify the means, otherwise humans wouldn't do anything.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22686335 - 12/22/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

The ends never justify the means.  An unjust act does not become just simply because it was done for a good cause.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Enlil]
    #22686432 - 12/22/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The ends never justify the means.  An unjust act does not become just simply because it was done for a good cause.




There's nothing unjust about paying workers a living wage.  If you believe forcing employers to pay a living wage is less freedom, then I think it's fair to say workers living in less free countries are better off and happier.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (12/22/15 12:02 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: who would you vote for? US [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22686555 - 12/22/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Prohibiting people from being able to negotiate their own terms is unjust.  You can frame it however you want, but it's an affront to freedom


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