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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Kryptos]
    #28554291 - 11/23/23 06:21 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Not everyone.  Dude is gonna need a small group of well armed loyalists to keep everyone else in line.  At least a million or so.  They'll need to be treated relatively well.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Kryptos]
    #28554294 - 11/23/23 06:24 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Only if that oligopy made it impossible for others to have a business. We (talking about the USA)are teetering close (in the future)but I dont see it yet....currently small business employs close to half of ALL private sector jobs in the US.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (11/23/23 06:25 PM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28554457 - 11/23/23 09:19 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Not everyone.  Dude is gonna need a small group of well armed loyalists to keep everyone else in line.  At least a million or so.  They'll need to be treated relatively well.




That's what we call "the Middle Class". In Snowpiercer, after the lower classes fight their way through the police, who do they run into? Same people that, uh, "protected their property" during the BLM protests.

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Only if that oligopy made it impossible for others to have a business. We (talking about the USA)are teetering close (in the future)but I dont see it yet....currently small business employs close to half of ALL private sector jobs in the US.




And they are also controlled by the system. Small business is kind of a trap. Sure, you work for yourself, but you also...can't really stop. Loans, assets, all that stuff.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Kryptos]
    #28554556 - 11/24/23 01:18 AM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Sure it would. It would devolve into a fascist oligopoly, which is still capitalism. If one person owns the world and everybody works for them, the world is still capitalist. It just sucks for everyone but the guy in charge.




So you're saying it doesn't suck for everyone? That's a relief...

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28554707 - 11/24/23 07:21 AM (5 months, 21 days ago)

It also wouldn’t suck for the collaborators.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #28554951 - 11/24/23 12:12 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Not at first.

Recently found out that the guy who wrote the "First they came for the communists and I didn't speak up" poem was originally a collaborator. Dude hated those atheist communists. Then he realized they wouldn't stop with the communists.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Kryptos]
    #28560149 - 11/28/23 09:53 PM (5 months, 16 days ago)

I've noticed that the common thread between all of these right wing parties that are finding success in European countries, is immigration. 20% of the people living in Ireland now are immigrants. They've taken more Ukrainian immigrants than any country in the EU. That's fucking nuts. Ireland is tiny.

Liberals are going to have to come to terms with the fact that open boarders are a losing proposition, as is anti-abortion. People can't handle such a dramatic demographic shift over a very short period of time. Many of these countries have a rich culture that has evolved over centuries. Something they wish to preserve. I don't blame them for that.


--------------------
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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28560346 - 11/29/23 06:04 AM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Yeah, but immigration won't stop. The choice is between acceptance and setting up machine guns nests on the border. People have always moved, and people will always move.

Edit: not to mention that immigration is not affected by political party or policy. If anything, Biden has cracked down more on immigration than Trump. Mostly by deporting people that Trump put in cages.

Immigration is one of those issues that exists only in the fever dreams of right wing media.

Edited by Kryptos (11/29/23 08:08 AM)

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Kryptos]
    #28560521 - 11/29/23 09:42 AM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Yeah, but immigration won't stop. The choice is between acceptance and setting up machine guns nests on the border. People have always moved, and people will always move.

Edit: not to mention that immigration is not affected by political party or policy. If anything, Biden has cracked down more on immigration than Trump. Mostly by deporting people that Trump put in cages.

Immigration is one of those issues that exists only in the fever dreams of right wing media.




People actually generally Don't want to leave their homes. Immigration is the result of our foreign policy, not our domestic policy. Supporting terrorist organizations in Syria created an immigration problem. Supporting a proxy war in Ukraine is creating an immigration problem. Funding things like Hamas creates an immigration problem.

Immigration is also the result of overthrowing democratically elected governments all over the world, and creating instability all over the world, particularly in the middle east, in the past couple of decades, and South America, prior to that.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28560534 - 11/29/23 09:59 AM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Our domestic policy leads directly to our foreign policy. Our foreign policy exists to protect our domestic policy.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Kryptos]
    #28560545 - 11/29/23 10:10 AM (5 months, 16 days ago)

I don't know that it's 1:1.  At least here, the idea that policy makers want to eliminate immigration is laughable.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Kryptos]
    #28560552 - 11/29/23 10:16 AM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Our domestic policy leads directly to our foreign policy. Our foreign policy exists to protect our domestic policy.




I wholeheartly disagree... in fact, if anything our foreign policy spills over into domestic policy, with the militarization of the police, and the surveillance state. Our foreign policy is so far divorced from the will of the people, that you can literally have 75% of Americans against a war, and the government is unresponsive.

American foreign policy is about hegemonic expansion of empire, regardless of the blowback. It is a tool used to extract resources from the weak (Countries in the Middle East, South America, and Africa), and putting them in the hands of the powerful. It is a means of laundering tax dollars from American citizens, and giving them to MIC corporations, who in turn provide campaign contributions to politicians.

Our foreign policy has absolutely nothing to do with protecting American citizens, and it has absolutely nothing to do with our domestic policy.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28560555 - 11/29/23 10:18 AM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I don't know that it's 1:1.  At least here, the idea that policy makers want to eliminate immigration is laughable.




Immigration benefits the upper classes.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28560557 - 11/29/23 10:20 AM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Immigration benefits everyone.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Enlil]
    #28560587 - 11/29/23 10:37 AM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Immigration benefits everyone.




Immigration benefits the wealthy far more than it benefits the lower classes, and lower classes experience negative effects of immigration more than upper classes.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28560824 - 11/29/23 01:45 PM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Our domestic policy leads directly to our foreign policy. Our foreign policy exists to protect our domestic policy.




I wholeheartly disagree... in fact, if anything our foreign policy spills over into domestic policy, with the militarization of the police, and the surveillance state. Our foreign policy is so far divorced from the will of the people, that you can literally have 75% of Americans against a war, and the government is unresponsive.

American foreign policy is about hegemonic expansion of empire, regardless of the blowback. It is a tool used to extract resources from the weak (Countries in the Middle East, South America, and Africa), and putting them in the hands of the powerful. It is a means of laundering tax dollars from American citizens, and giving them to MIC corporations, who in turn provide campaign contributions to politicians.

Our foreign policy has absolutely nothing to do with protecting American citizens, and it has absolutely nothing to do with our domestic policy.




Our domestic policy lies in protecting the wealth of the few and extracting wealth from the foreigners and the poor.

Our foreign policy supports these goals.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Kryptos]
    #28560864 - 11/29/23 02:18 PM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Our domestic policy lies in protecting the wealth of the few and extracting wealth from the foreigners and the poor.

Our foreign policy supports these goals.




Hmm... I guess that's a fair point.

In fact, if we were to make changes to our government that fostered a strong middle class, one can only imagine that government being less imperialistic.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28560895 - 11/29/23 02:45 PM (5 months, 16 days ago)

I think it would probably make it worse.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28560907 - 11/29/23 02:53 PM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Our government does try to foster a strong middle class. Right now, that consists of the aspirational 14%. They are the primary consumers and taxpayers.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Kryptos]
    #28561341 - 11/29/23 08:25 PM (5 months, 15 days ago)

Bunch of losers


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