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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: ballsalsa]
#25628291 - 11/20/18 05:24 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Make 'em pay for it
lol!!! That too!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] 2
#25628305 - 11/20/18 05:32 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Goddamnit Qman... I have always wished you would more carefully consider your thought process.
I may not be so quick to say that the burden of shouldering the repercussions of climate change is on those who caused it, if the United States cared at all to attempt to rectify the situation, once it was apparent. Instead of brushing it under the rug, and attempting to ambiguate the facts on this issue at every point.
It is certainly no solution, however, to say that equatorial populations ought not procreate.
I have to wonder what causes you to be so callous? If your guiding ideology leads you to such unpalatable conclusions, it may be worth reconsidering. We're talking about famine, starvation, catastrophic natural disasters... The health of the world as a whole should be valued, even for purely selfish reasons.
Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/20/18 05:39 PM)
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25628360 - 11/20/18 05:59 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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The Ecstatic said: By mismanagement do you mean under the heel of imperialism for half a millennia?
Also, what is speculation? The US being the largest polluter per capita? Or climate change itself?
That the US and others are responsible for changing the climate and that there will be negative results for food production around the globe.
Right now, Africa has a booming population because of increased access to food from technology gains.
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#25628381 - 11/20/18 06:05 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: Goddamnit Qman... I have always wished you would more carefully consider your thought process.
I may not be so quick to say that the burden of shouldering the repercussions of climate change is on those who caused it, if the United States cared at all to attempt to rectify the situation, once it was apparent. Instead of brushing it under the rug, and attempting to ambiguate the facts on this issue at every point.
It is certainly no solution, however, to say that equatorial populations ought not procreate.
I have to wonder what causes you to be so callous? If your guiding ideology leads you to such unpalatable conclusions, it may be worth reconsidering. We're talking about famine, starvation, catastrophic natural disasters... The health of the world as a whole should be valued, even for purely selfish reasons.
Isn't economic success in the US directly correlated to only having children IF you can afford it?
So why do you find it problematic if someone suggests even poorer people should try to manage their population growth? It's very irresponsible NOT to help them manage themselves so we don't have children suffering in the years ahead, correct?
Nobody is suggesting not to procreate, they're suggesting to only have children that they can afford and won't burden others down the road.
The US, EU, Japan and other developed nations know it's stupid to have 5-10 children and live in poverty. It's called family planning, it's a good thing for everyone involved.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
#25628629 - 11/20/18 07:36 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: So whose burden is it to be prepared? The people currently living in that environment, not people already managing their population responsibly.
Whose burden is it to prevent anthropic climate change in the first place? The people causing it, or the people not managing their population responsibly?
Quote:
qman said: Isn't economic success in the US directly correlated to only having children IF you can afford it?
No. It's directly correlated to having a lot of money.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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MycoMinded
Registered: 06/26/18
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The poorer equatorial countries are still mostly agrarian societies. We did the same thing here when we were in that situation - had lots of kids because parents needed them to work and many of them didn't make it through childhood so they hedged their bets. The infant and child mortality rate is improving and they haven't adjusted. Even if they're not working on the farm, they send the kids out to work and bring money home. They view kids as income, not a liability.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
#25629369 - 11/21/18 07:28 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: By mismanagement do you mean under the heel of imperialism for half a millennia?
Also, what is speculation? The US being the largest polluter per capita? Or climate change itself?
That the US and others are responsible for changing the climate and that there will be negative results for food production around the globe.
Right now, Africa has a booming population because of increased access to food from technology gains.
We can solve climate change by making sure Africa dies off faster.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#25629373 - 11/21/18 07:32 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Edit: In what universe did you think this was ever going to be appropriate in this forum?
I guess the one where mods don’t alter my comments and the forum rules are universally applied.
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#25629424 - 11/21/18 08:05 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: So whose burden is it to be prepared? The people currently living in that environment, not people already managing their population responsibly.
Whose burden is it to prevent anthropic climate change in the first place? The people causing it, or the people not managing their population responsibly?
Quote:
qman said: Isn't economic success in the US directly correlated to only having children IF you can afford it?
No. It's directly correlated to having a lot of money. 
My mistake, levels of poverty are directly correlated to having children people can't afford, but you already knew that and wanted to avoid that fact. Isn't being in poverty a lack of economc success?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] 2
#25629425 - 11/21/18 08:07 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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How is being a white nationalist human nature but procreating is fiscal irresponsibility
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25629434 - 11/21/18 08:15 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: By mismanagement do you mean under the heel of imperialism for half a millennia?
Also, what is speculation? The US being the largest polluter per capita? Or climate change itself?
That the US and others are responsible for changing the climate and that there will be negative results for food production around the globe.
Right now, Africa has a booming population because of increased access to food from technology gains.
We can solve climate change by making sure Africa dies off faster.
How about this, everybody has to deal with climate change if it's happening regardless if humans are responsible or not.
Stop assuming you know who or what is responsible and who's potentially suffering as a result.
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25629439 - 11/21/18 08:18 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: How is being a white nationalist human nature but procreating is fiscal irresponsibility
If you want to have children you can't afford, go right ahead. I hate condoms as well, but it's about being responsible.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
#25629457 - 11/21/18 08:27 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: By mismanagement do you mean under the heel of imperialism for half a millennia?
Also, what is speculation? The US being the largest polluter per capita? Or climate change itself?
That the US and others are responsible for changing the climate and that there will be negative results for food production around the globe.
Right now, Africa has a booming population because of increased access to food from technology gains.
We can solve climate change by making sure Africa dies off faster.
How about this, everybody has to deal with climate change if it's happening regardless if humans are responsible or not.
Stop assuming you know who or what is responsible and who's potentially suffering as a result.
No, everybody doesn’t have to deal with it. That’s why we’re gonna wall ourselves offf from the global south and let them deal with it themselves, as we continue to pollute more and more.
--------------------
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] 1
#25629561 - 11/21/18 09:36 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Isn't economic success in the US directly correlated to only having children IF you can afford it?
So why do you find it problematic if someone suggests even poorer people should try to manage their population growth? It's very irresponsible NOT to help them manage themselves so we don't have children suffering in the years ahead, correct?
In 3rd world economies the family often benefits financially from having more children to put to work.
Quote:
The US, EU, Japan and other developed nations know it's stupid to have 5-10 children and live in poverty. It's called family planning, it's a good thing for everyone involved.
Our situation is dramatically different. That's not to say that it will not be detrimental in the future, for them to have 10 children. I think it's a bit of a complicated issue.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Malkuthian
Fetus



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] 1
#25629664 - 11/21/18 10:20 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: So whose burden is it to be prepared? The people currently living in that environment, not people already managing their population responsibly.
Who said anything about burden? I'm not talking about who is to blame and who has what resposiblities, why do you constantly move the subject towards that discussion? I'm asking how to practically act when stuff that are likely to happen happens... But I do love to see how you struggle to comprehend this
Quote:
qman said: I'm not sure why you think the borders somehow become irrelevant if there's a crisis in another part of the world.
Why do you claim I think they would become irrelevant? I'm saying that when millions of people are fleeing from certain death just saying "no, you are not welcome" will not have any practical consequence, they will not say "ok", and go back and die. So how do you want to enforce the border control when this happens?
Quote:
qman said: You also realize there's other places to migrate to other than the EU? What about India or China? No open arms there waiting for them, I can assure you that.
Yea, lets go to extremely over-populated areas where the likely hood of survival seems to be low. But seriously, are you saying that in the event of a climate crisis causing millions of people from the MENA-area to flee, it's likely that the EU wont have to handle the problem if we close the borders because the people will simple walk west instead, to other contries that also have closed borders? How does your words actualy relate to anything? I cant make sense of the utter inane-ness of your pretended response...
You refuse to treat the hypothesis at hand and continue to herd your flock of scapegoats...
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25629854 - 11/21/18 12:08 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: By mismanagement do you mean under the heel of imperialism for half a millennia?
Also, what is speculation? The US being the largest polluter per capita? Or climate change itself?
That the US and others are responsible for changing the climate and that there will be negative results for food production around the globe.
Right now, Africa has a booming population because of increased access to food from technology gains.
We can solve climate change by making sure Africa dies off faster.
How about this, everybody has to deal with climate change if it's happening regardless if humans are responsible or not.
Stop assuming you know who or what is responsible and who's potentially suffering as a result.
No, everybody doesn’t have to deal with it. That’s why we’re gonna wall ourselves offf from the global south and let them deal with it themselves, as we continue to pollute more and more.
You're speculating where you think climate change might affect things and how others might react as a result.
What if the climate change screws up US and EU food production?
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Malkuthian]
#25629867 - 11/21/18 12:17 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Malkuthian said:
Quote:
qman said: So whose burden is it to be prepared? The people currently living in that environment, not people already managing their population responsibly.
Who said anything about burden? I'm not talking about who is to blame and who has what resposiblities, why do you constantly move the subject towards that discussion? I'm asking how to practically act when stuff that are likely to happen happens... But I do love to see how you struggle to comprehend this
Quote:
qman said: I'm not sure why you think the borders somehow become irrelevant if there's a crisis in another part of the world.
Why do you claim I think they would become irrelevant? I'm saying that when millions of people are fleeing from certain death just saying "no, you are not welcome" will not have any practical consequence, they will not say "ok", and go back and die. So how do you want to enforce the border control when this happens?
Quote:
qman said: You also realize there's other places to migrate to other than the EU? What about India or China? No open arms there waiting for them, I can assure you that.
Yea, lets go to extremely over-populated areas where the likely hood of survival seems to be low. But seriously, are you saying that in the event of a climate crisis causing millions of people from the MENA-area to flee, it's likely that the EU wont have to handle the problem if we close the borders because the people will simple walk west instead, to other contries that also have closed borders? How does your words actualy relate to anything? I cant make sense of the utter inane-ness of your pretended response...
You refuse to treat the hypothesis at hand and continue to herd your flock of scapegoats...
You're operating on a lot of hypothetical here, so why don't we just wait and see if anything every happens.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-21/white-house-authorizes-lethal-force-border
What you call nonsense is a real world reality, people in the US and EU don't want to see their homelands destroyed.
Sure, if it doesn't cost the EU too much resources, I'm sure they would like to help by assisting from a distance. This idea of letting millions of migrants into one's homeland is beyond silly at this point.
The world is a very dangerous place and everybody is trying to survive, can the West prevent horrible humanitarian crisis's from happening? Not likely.
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Malkuthian
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] 2
#25629949 - 11/21/18 01:02 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: What you call nonsense is a real world reality, people in the US and EU don't want to see their homelands destroyed.
Sure, if it doesn't cost the EU too much resources, I'm sure they would like to help by assisting from a distance. This idea of letting millions of migrants into one's homeland is beyond silly at this point.
The world is a very dangerous place and everybody is trying to survive, can the West prevent horrible humanitarian crisis's from happening? Not likely.
What did I call nonsense now...?
And then: bla bla bla, more words completely unrelated to anything I'm saying.
You only have rethoric, you dont have any content what so ever...
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Malkuthian]
#25630144 - 11/21/18 02:13 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Malkuthian said:
Quote:
qman said: What you call nonsense is a real world reality, people in the US and EU don't want to see their homelands destroyed.
Sure, if it doesn't cost the EU too much resources, I'm sure they would like to help by assisting from a distance. This idea of letting millions of migrants into one's homeland is beyond silly at this point.
The world is a very dangerous place and everybody is trying to survive, can the West prevent horrible humanitarian crisis's from happening? Not likely.
What did I call nonsense now...?
And then: bla bla bla, more words completely unrelated to anything I'm saying.
You only have rethoric, you dont have any content what so ever...
When I suggested about defending the borders, you brushed it off and stated- "will not have any practical consequence".
"So how do you you want to enforce the border control when this happens?"
Again, it's called defending the border!!!! https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-11-21/mattis-says-he-has-extra-authority-to-use-military-on-border
"You only have rhetoric"
You keep repeating yourself and asking the same questions because you don't like the answers.
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Malkuthian
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
#25632245 - 11/22/18 10:37 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've asked several times what you think "defending the border" is in practical terms. The first thing that resembles a response is the link in this post...
So basically, if we ignore yout bullshit sidetrack comments and my response to those, this is what has been said:
Malk: What do you suggest the EU do if millions of immigrants run from climate change to be able to survive? Q: Kill them if they refuse to return to certain death
Thanks for the answer, finally.
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